How safe is E-Bay/Paypal?

[floppybootstomp]

Alright, I'm going to sleep on this.

I'm basically undecided between just cancelling the sale and all the other facets of that action or finding out if the buyer is willing to pay a little more for me to send the goods via a trackable courier.

Maybe even the method I've chosen to send the goods has a tracking system, I shall have to find out.

The thing that's worrying me the most is if I can stop the transfer of funds from Paypal to my Bank account in time.

Because if the money gets there and I have to transfer it back to Paypal, it takes almost two weeks to transfer cash to Paypal from my bank account. I know this as on April 2nd I sent fifteen quid from my bank account to Paypal to cover fees. It took til yesterday for them to clear.

Funny thing is I didn't actually need to do that as I've sold enough stuff now to cover fees.

I am honestly not impressed with the whole setup to be honest.

But they do seem to have something of a Monopoly.

 

[Ian]

I think a refund can work instantly, if you transfer it manually then you'll get charged fees - but there should be a refund option in the transaction details if you log in (if it's still the same as when I last did it ).

 

[crazylegs]

Yep your right there flopp's ebay do seem to hold all the cards when it comes to paypal..

Thing is Paypal is normally a safe and secure system for transactions and money transfers, yes its expensive to use with all there fees but for the most part its reasonably safe for the average user out there..

Unfortunately there will always be tykes and scammers that know the loopholes in the system and exploit it accordingly, the old send it without tracking trick is a peach and is used by scammers all over the world, thats probably why they asked you if you were sending it with trackability, knowing if you weren't they would have the goods and could then go through Paypal for a refund and get it too, as you wouldn't be able to provide proof and they would favour the buyer..Its an old trick but one which Paypal still does nothing to curb..

You sleep on it mate..I'm sure you'll have a clear head in the morning to make whatever decision you think best..

 

[floppybootstomp]

I phoned ParcelForce and the postal service the buyer chose does not include tracking. Furthermore no delivery time is guaranteed and delivery could take from five days to thirty days.

To send the parcel with door to door tracking two services are offered, the first 1 - 2 days and the second 2 - 3 days. They cost £83.29 and £129.22 respectively and that's without me adding a bit to cover the Paypal fees.

Which in my mind makes it uneconomical to send and would also suggest a potential scam, seems like this guy knows what he's doing. And to make it worse, the area he lives in is, apparently, an autonomous region to Spain, not really even part of Spain itself. Here's a Wikipedia link: Galicia

So I'm going to cancel the sale.

I have questions though. The most important to my mind being if I send the money back to the buyer's Paypal account will he get the full amount he sent? In other words what happens to the fee Paypal charged me to take the money?

Is it easy to stop the cash transfer from Paypal to my bank account I started 2 days ago?

What happens to the £35.00 commission E-Bay charged me?

Will I be able to relist the camera for free?

Can I phone E-Bay or is it communication by e-mail only?

Can I phone Paypal? Actually, I seem to recall Paypal can be phoned.

I am dead nervous about this, I'll give it a couple of hours to see if anybody here can offer advice then I will go to Paypal and attempt to refund the buyer. I will also at the same time e-mail the buyer and explain as politely as possible why I have cancelled the sale.

 

[Ian]

Wise choice - posting it without tracking isn't an option, and it makes no sense to pay £100 for postage.

I don't know the exact proceedure for a refund... but don't do it by transfering the amount he paid you back, as you'll both get charged the paypal fee that way. There's a way you can automatically refund the transaction so you don't get charged fees, but I can't remember how to do it. Someone here who uses ebay more frequently may be able to offer advice though

 

[crazylegs]

Yep it was too dodgy to go ahead with this transaction and I think you done the right thing in cancelling, I would have done the same..

Point 1/ Yes he will get the same amount he sent, and if you refund from the paypal tab itself you will not be charged, as Ian said don't do it manually as you will get charged, there should be a refund button you can press..

Point 2/ again that should get refunded back to you, but make sure you get in touch with ebay first just to let them know whats happened...

Point 3/ Not sure on that one, its usually only if you didn't manage to sell the first time round, in this case you did, again check with ebay mate..

Point 4/ email only mate and through there resolution system..

Point 5/ I have always gone through the paypal resolution system whenever I have had to claim or someones claimed against me, takes time but alaways been succesful in the past..

Good luck Flopp's I think you done the right thing in this case..

 

[Taffycat]

Can I phone E-Bay or is it communication by e-mail only?

I have just found several numbers for PayPal on the Say no to 0870 website. Please see thumbnails below. Hope they will help

 

[floppybootstomp]

Thanks all.

This is a bit of a nightmare.

I transferred £380.00 to my bank account from Paypal 2 days ago and it's not showing in my account yet. I have just spoken to Paypal (on an 0844 number btw and it took me a good ten minutes to get through to somebody) and they consider the transaction completed so it can't be stopped.

So I now have to wait for the money to reach my bank account and then wait for it to be transferred back again before I can make a refund. There is not enough money in my Paypal account atm to refund him, there's about £85.00 in there.

The last cash transfer I made took almost two weeks so when I tell the buyer what I intend to do is he ever going to be cheesed off. I am almost certain to get negative feedback I think.

Paypal did say that when I make the refund he will get the full amount he paid and my E-Bay fee will be refunded. But I think I will lose the money Paypal took originally from the sale.

Never, ever again will I accept a bid from anywhere other than the UK and all my future listings will state that. I do usually put that info but forgot with the camera.

Oh well, now I have the pleasant task of telling the buyer that the sale is cancelled and he will have to wait up to 3 weeks for his money back. Great.

 

[crazylegs]

Rather that than lose your Nikon Camera kit and your £350 quid..

We live and learn eh..sigh..

 

[G~MAN]

Leave it a week or so, he can wait

This guy is a scammer, for definate ... I would hold out for a week before you mention anything to him, then in a weeks time tell him you will refund him and say it will takw 3 - 5 days to clear

 

[guest_9323wk]

You did the right thing i would have done the same thing. As othes have said at least you did not loose the camrea as well. It will take a while to sort out the refund. If they do leave you neg feedback then i would contact ebay and explain why you did not go ahead with the sale. Good luck mate.

 

[floppybootstomp]

Thanks all.

Ok, I've just sent him an e-mail, let's see if the doggy-do hits the rotary cooling device

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have decided to cancel the sale of my Nikon D40X Camera outfit.

Two days ago I started a transfer of funds from the sale of the camera outfit from my Paypal account to my bank account. I telephoned Paypal to see if I could stop the transfer but they consider the transaction complete even though the money is not yet in my bank account.

As soon as the money reaches my bank account I will send it straight back to Paypal and when the money is back in my Paypal account I will make you a full refund of £389.00.

Unfortunately it may take 2 to 3 weeks for the money to get back to my Paypal account. I only have around £83.00 in my Paypal account at present so cannot make a refund until those transferred funds are returned.

The reasons I am cancelling the sale are:

1) Firstly and most importantly I only listed the goods for a UK sale, I am not familiar with shipping items abroad.
2) E-Bay’s seller protection scheme only covers me if the goods are sent with a courier firm that gives door to door tracking. I didn’t realise that when I offered you the three shipping methods. All those three methods did not offer tracking facilities which would have meant my goods were unprotected had I sent them to you using any of those three methods.
3) The prices for sending the goods via a courier firm that offers door to door tracking abroad are £88.00 and £134.00 respectively which in my opinion would have made the sale uneconomical to you.
4) Those prices also only included insurance for £150.00 and the goods were worth £350.00 plus the cost of shipping.

I do apologise sincerely for any inconvenience and disappointment caused to you but would point out as already mentioned the goods were listed on E-Bay for UK sale only and I would have expected E-Bay’s filters to have excluded you from viewing the sale.

I would also point out that it may have been prudent on your part to ask me if I was willing to post the goods abroad before you made your bids.

Again, my apologies, I will contact you and keep you up to date on cash movements between my accounts.

Regards

 

[Anon_F]

Say's it all & concise and to the point.

 

[guest_9323wk]

Great e-mail Flops, you have included all the information.

Keep us updated on how it goes.

 

[crazylegs]

I'm dissapointed for you Flopp's as I know you wanted to sell the camera kit, but am also glad you took this plan of action..
Not your fault this transaction didn't go through but I'm sure you'll get a decent price for the goods if you sell elsewhere..

 

[Madxgraphics]

Bummer, if I had the Joe Dash now I'd snap that bit of kit up in a second....

 

[floppybootstomp]

Update:

I've had a reply:

I'M REALLY DISAPPOINTED, ANYWAY JUST A FEW WORDS FROM ME... YOU SAID TWO OR THREE WEEKS BEFORE MY MONEY'S BACK, DIDN'T YOU? SORRY, I CAN'T ACCEPT SUCH A LONG DELAY. DO YOUR BEST TO REFUND NEXT WEEK. I'M AFRAID THERE'S A STRANGE SMELL ALL ABOUT THIS, PAYPAL SHOULD BE INFORMED BUT I'D PREFER A FRIENDLY AGREEMENT.

My reply to him:


I’m sorry you’re disappointed.

I will not be in a position to refund you until funds have been moved from one of my bank accounts to Paypal.

The last time I transferred funds it took 13 days.

I am not going to transfer cash until my transfer from Paypal to my bank account has cleared.

You have no need to worry, you will get your cash refund.

Again, I’ll mention my sale was listed UK only and you didn’t ask me if I was willing to ship abroad before you bid.

I stand by my original E-Mail to you and ask for your patience and understanding in this matter.

Take a look at my E-Bay dealer ratings, this should give you some idea of my integrity. I also have good dealer ratings at two UK computer forum sites if you’d like links.

Again, my apologies, I’ll keep you posted on progress of your refund.

Regards

Looks like I'm set for further abuse.

I have bit my tongue so far, if he keeps on he'll get some verbal back.

I've actually lost money cos of this fella and if the smell's coming from anywhere, it's from his actions.

 

[crazylegs]

He can very well inform Paypal as you have nothing to hide infact paypal are being kept informed by you, so he has nothing to gain by stirring it up for no reason..

You stand your ground Flopp's your integrity is intact and your sincerety is proved because you are doing all you can to refund this guy and keep him informed..Thats all you can do ...

Stick with it..

 

[Ian]

Did everything go to plan with this in the end? Hope it got resolved ok

 

[floppybootstomp]

Did everything go to plan with this in the end? Hope it got resolved ok

No, it's been an absolute nightmare.

When I noticed the would-be buyer's £380.00 was in my bank account I e-mailed him letting him know where his cash was and I had now redirected it back to Paypal where I could refund him. I actually started transferring £400.00 back to Paypal.

And then he started a dispute at Paypal, claiming I had received the money but he hadn't received the goods.

I panicked - and this is where I made a big mistake - and initiated a refund from Paypal, although I had no idea how Paypal were going to give him the cash when there wasn't enough to cover it. On top of that E-Bay fees of around £76.00 were due to be taken from Paypal soon and I only had around £80.00 in the Paypal account.

What I should have done was gritted my teeth, waited until all money had settled and then initiated the refund from E-Bay. This would have saved me £35.00 in E-Bay fees on the camera sale.

The dispute is still open but Paypal have taken money to refund him - straight from my bank account.

This means that I have £400.00 on it's way back to Paypal and Paypal have also taken £374.00 (the buyer's original payment for me that went into Paypal, less Paypal's commission).

This has left me £372.00 overdrawn on my business bank account for which I never bothered to set up an overdraft facility.

A cheque for £230.00 has just arrived and I am going to pay that and £142.00 into my bank account and hope that appeases the bank. Of the course the cheque will take 5 working days to clear but it's the best I can do.

I phoned Paypal yesterday, it took me about five minutes to reach a human being then around ten minutes to be transferred between 3 departments and then about a five minute conversation where I managed to keep my temper in check and speak reasonably.

The call was to an 0870 number so probably cost me a few pounds.

Some good news though, the lady at Paypal told me their commission from the sale would be refunded by them so I didn't have to worry about paying the buyer the £15.00 Paypal commission.

She also told me that if I e-mail E-Bay and explain the circumstances they will very likely refund me the £35.00 they took for the camera sale, though that's by no means definite.

So that's the state of play at the moment. I have sold a few things recently on E-Bay and my Paypal account is around £130.00 at the moment.

At E-Bay I now have 100% positive feedback with 54 feedback entries given to me.

This creep from NW Spain has just the one positive feedback. Hopefully that counts for something when I explain things to E-Bay.

It looks as if things will eventually resolve but it will be over two weeks before this £400.00 finally finds it's way back to my bank account.

I just hope that in the middle of all this my bank don't knock back the Paypal £374.00 withdrawal, that will really set the cat amongst the pigeons. I'm actually leaving within the hour to pay the cash and cheque into my bank account.