"Do you want to replace the existing Normal?"

L

Larry

One of the strangest messages in Word 97 is a message I've gotten
without warning from time to time, "Do you want to replace the existing
Normal?" That's all the message says. It doesn't say why Normal ought
to be replaced or what it's going to be replaced with, or what will
happen if I don't replace it. I'm simply saving Normal, or closing
Word, and I get this message. And the funny thing is, even though the
message seems to be giving me a choice, it's giving me no choice at all.
If I say no, I'm shown a save as dialog box. If I then save as some
other name, I'm still not able to save the existing Normal, because I
get the same message again. So finally I have no choice but to replace
the existing Normal. Though, once again, what I'm replacing it with,
and how what I'm doing is different from what I do when I simply save
changes in Normal, I haven't the foggiest.

I assume that more recent versions of Word do not have these mysterious
and ominous error messages.

Larry
 
A

Annie

I'm trying to changing the default format which comes up
in word 2000. I must have saved a letter as the normal
template and now that letter keeps coming up. All I want
is a blank page. Any ideas on how to get rid of the
normal.dot template?
 
W

Word Heretic

G'day "Larry" <[email protected]>,

It can be caused by a few things, the best bet is to set your options
to Not prompting for saving normal.dot. Then it just quietly does it
in the background.

Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Larry reckoned:
 
L

Larry

To clarify my first post, when this happened, the setting for "prompt to
save Normal template" was already turned off.

Larry
 
B

Beth Melton

Now Steve, do you also remove the batteries from your smoke detector
because it goes off every time you burn something on the stove? ;-)

I don't recommend anyone turn off the prompt to save Normal.dot. If
you encounter it each time you exit Word then the likely cause is a
virus or add-in. If it is an add-in then it can exhibit virus-like
qualities such as over-population of menu items, file bloat, and
corruption.

I firmly believe one of the main reasons we see so many cases of
Normal.dot corruption is due to add-ins. If the add-in creator didn't
know enough to prevent the prompt to save Normal.dot, then I wouldn't
trust them to know enough to prevent file corruption or trust the
modifications the add-in is making.

Any add-in that modifies the Normal.dot IMHO shouldn't be used.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
B

Beth Melton

Hi Larry,

Do you have the SR-1 and SR-2 patches installed? If you recently
reinstalled Word then you would also need to reinstall the patches.
Even if you didn't reinstall I've found a few occasions in which Word
97 stopped recognizing the patches.

IIRC one of the patches corrected an issue similar to what you
describe. It has something to do with starting two sessions of Word. I
do remember it was odd because I encountered it myself and I didn't
think I was starting more than one Word session.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
C

Charles Kenyon

Hi Steve,

With Beth, I disagree, although I'm not sure that "Do you want to replace
the existing Normal?" is the prompt that can be turned off. Here's my rant:

I just checked on Word 97 and the message I get from that prompt is:
"Changes have been made that affect the global template..."

The message "Changes have been made that affect the global template -
normal. Do you wish to save those changes?" is an important warning. It
means that changes have been made, whether you intended to make changes or
not. You can also get it when your template has been altered by a poorly
written Add-In program or by a malicious virus.

The reason for the message being shown repeatedly is almost always a poorly
written Add-In. The Norton AV Office Plug-In seems to be the most frequent
offender recently, but that can change as some other poorly written program
comes on the market.

Other offenders include the MS Works Suite Add-In, EZ-Photo, Scansoft, Adobe
Acrobat, and Microsoft's MetaData remover. These all install Add-Ins that
mess with your normal.dot when they shouldn't do so and don't need to do so.
Some of these are .dot files, others are installed. See <URL:
http://word.mvps.org/FAQs/Customization/CheckIfAddinsInstalled.htm> for
instructions on seeing what Add-Ins you have. (Having Add-Ins is not a bad
thing. I run Word with 15 Add-Ins, most of which I wrote myself.)

Note to Beth: When I am broiling in the oven and the smoke detector goes
off, I take out the batteries from the smoke detector. It helps keep me
sane. (I think.) I put them back in, though, when I'm done cooking. I do
keep the prompt to save normal.dot option checked, though. (I may have a
higher tolerance for irritation, though, than Steve does.)
--

Charles Kenyon

Word New User FAQ & Web Directory:
<URL: http://addbalance.com/word/index.htm>

Intermediate User's Guide to Microsoft Word (supplemented version of
Microsoft's Legal Users' Guide)
<URL: http://addbalance.com/usersguide/index.htm>

See also the MVP FAQ: <URL: http://www.mvps.org/word/> which is awesome!
--------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
This message is posted to a newsgroup. Please post replies
and questions to the newsgroup so that others can learn
from my ignorance and your wisdom.
 
L

Larry

Hi Beth,

My Word 97 came with SR-1, I later installed SR-2 and I haven't
re-installed Word in ages. However, I gather you're suggesting that I
re-install the SR-2 patch. I guess in order to do that I'd have to
un-install and re-install Word?

And, yes, I do occasionally have two instances of Word briefly opened at
the same time. I generally do this when I need to see what Word is like
in its pristine state, so I run a shortcut which runs "Winword /a".

Also, in response to Charles, this is not the familiar message that says
""Changes have been made that affect the global template..." This
message simply said: "Do you want to replace the existing Normal?"
I've had this message appear just a handful of times in the five years
I've had Word 97.

Larry
 
B

Beth Melton

Okay, you got me there. <g>

When I had a smoke detector I'd ~temporarily~ take the batteries out
too. My thought was more along the lines of, 'taking them out for
good'.

I guess I need to rephrase that line for future use. ;-)

~Beth Melton
 
W

Word Heretic

G'day "Beth Melton" <[email protected]>,

If one was running a building and a faulty smoke alarm went off every
week, here in NSW that would cost you a minimum of 2 grand in callout
fees a month from the fire brigades, who I just happen to work for.
And yes, the recommendation would be to isolate the faulty alarm until
you replaced it.

Unfortunately we don't have this option - replacing it that is - with
Word. As I can describe a few simple and 'used' ways in which to
trigger it constantly whilst you are doing NOTHING wrong, it is far
better to shut it off. Most times this does little harm but stops you
from clicking unneccesarily on a frequent basis.

Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Beth Melton reckoned:
 
W

Word Heretic

G'day "Charles Kenyon",

I'd put money on it ole fella!

Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Charles Kenyon reckoned:
 
B

Beth Melton

Okay, so the smoke detector analogy wasn't the best. <g>

My point was turning off the "Prompt to save Normal" can cause more
harm than good in the long run due to the reasons I provided.

I agree there are some instances where the prompt can be triggered
harmlessly but I stand by my statement that if an add-in is the cause
then it shouldn't be used. At least not allowed to automatically load
when Word starts but perhaps manually loaded when necessary.

If you start allowing add-ins to automatically modify your Normal.dot
each time Word starts then the chances of corruption and various
issues greatly increase.

Just take a look at the application.errors newsgroup. I can state with
99% certainty that the majority of those encountering a corrupt
Normal.dot or issues with their Normal.dot, also have an add-in that
modifies the Normal.dot each time Word starts. The "Microsoft Works
Suite Add-in for Word" has proven this point numerous times.

--
Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
W

Word Heretic

G'day Beth,

yeah - that's also a valid point, the flipside is my normal stays
stable for yonkers, I have everything set 'nicely' and it still wants
to be petted and saved. Word Happens...

Additionally, I have renamed Normal before and still had word spazz
out with a corrupt Normal in no short time. True, I am a developer and
always doing crazy things with Word. But the point is certain
combinations of actions can kill normal and it has nothing to do with
saving it overly regularly - excluding having Fast Saves on of course
which will kill it rapidly. Example sequence, using a toolbar from a
global template, mod it from normal context, then from its parent,
then from normal, then from another template, then from normal again.
Close Word, move this template elsewhere. Create another toolbar with
the same name in a global template and repeat. Quit Word, load both
templates, enjoy. These probably a few caveats in there but when I
play silly buggers with the toolbar collection programatically and I
screw up the context, all hell breaks loose rapidly and normal is dead
again.

As for add-ins - if they create / destroy commandbars which is a
popular novice technique that isn't dangerous then you can get this
behaviour. Etc. Hell, a loose style definition in the body of the
document could cause it :)


Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Beth Melton reckoned:
 
B

Beth Melton

Hi Steve,

Well... for those who do crazy things in Word that behavior could be
expected. <g>

One item I don't understand in your post though, what is a 'loose
style definition in the body of the document' and how could it cause
corruption in Normal.dot??

Please post all follow-up questions to the newsgroup. Requests for
assistance by email can not be acknowledged.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Beth Melton
Microsoft Office MVP

Word FAQ: http://mvps.org/word
TechTrax eZine: http://mousetrax.com/techtrax/
MVP FAQ site: http://mvps.org/
 
W

Word Heretic

G'day "Beth Melton" <[email protected]>,

Auto update :)


Steve Hudson - Word Heretic
Want a hyperlinked index? S/W R&D? See WordHeretic.com

steve from wordheretic.com (Email replies require payment)


Beth Melton reckoned:
 

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