Boot Disk Failure Needs CD to Boot Windows

M

mfink

Ok, I have looked at a lot of posts and have seen a similar problem,
but no fixes helped me yet. I installed a brand new hard drive and
installed Windows XP Pro. My BIOS boot settings are as follows:

Floppy
CD-ROM
HDDO

When I start the computer, it seems to take a lot of time recognizing
IDE devices and then pauses once it has recognized Primary Master,
Slave... etc... then it tries to boot and I get thsi message:

Verifying DMI Pool Data..
BOOT FROM ATAPI CD-ROM:
DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER.

As long as the XP CD is in the drive Windows will boot fine. I do not
press enter, therefore I am not really booting from the CD. If I Boot
from CD then the WIndows installer starts. If I don't have the CD I
cannot boot.

Okay, what I've tried so far.

I've changed by boot sequences to all configurations, doesn't seem to
matter.

I ran Systam Console and did the following:

CopyD:\i386\NTLDR C:
CopyD:\i386\NTDETECT.COM C:

Files copied Fine... (This seemed to work for another post with the
same problem)
Did not work for me.....

Any more suggestions????
 
J

John John

Use the Disk Management tool and verify that the C: partition is marked
as Active.

John
 
M

mfink

Is it active, if not how do I do that?

When i right click the option to "mark as active" is grayed out and is
not a selection option.
 
M

mfink

Is it active, if not how do I do that?

When i right click the option to "mark as active" is grayed out and is
not a selection option.
 
M

mfink

Is it active, if not how do I do that?

When i right click the option to "mark as active" is grayed out and is
not a selection option.
 
A

Anna

John John said:
Use the Disk Management tool and verify that the C: partition is marked as
Active.

John


mfink:
1. We'll assume that when you're able to get into Disk Management, nothing
untoward is shown there, i.e., the drive is shown as a System disk as well
as a Basic disk, and a drive letter has been assigned to it. In other words,
everything is "normal" in DM, right?

2. Assuming it is...you didn't say but we'll assume this is the only HDD
connected in your system, right? If not, disconnect any secondary HDDs and
boot with only your boot disk. And you boot without any USB or Firewire
external HDDs connected, right?

3. Have you tried connecting the HDD as a Secondary Master or Primary or
Secondary Slave? If not, do so. Same problem?

4. Your BIOS is set to auto-detect your HDD, right? You haven't changed the
default, right? Recheck your BIOS elements to ensure they're properly set.

5. You're absolutely sure you've properly connected & configured that HDD,
right? Think there might be a problem with the data cable?

6. Have you checked out the disk with the diagnostic from the disk's
manufacturer? If not, do so.
Anna
 
M

mfink

Anna said:
mfink:
1. We'll assume that when you're able to get into Disk Management, nothing
untoward is shown there, i.e., the drive is shown as a System disk as well
as a Basic disk, and a drive letter has been assigned to it. In other words,
everything is "normal" in DM, right?

2. Assuming it is...you didn't say but we'll assume this is the only HDD
connected in your system, right? If not, disconnect any secondary HDDs and
boot with only your boot disk. And you boot without any USB or Firewire
external HDDs connected, right?

3. Have you tried connecting the HDD as a Secondary Master or Primary or
Secondary Slave? If not, do so. Same problem?

4. Your BIOS is set to auto-detect your HDD, right? You haven't changed the
default, right? Recheck your BIOS elements to ensure they're properly set.

5. You're absolutely sure you've properly connected & configured that HDD,
right? Think there might be a problem with the data cable?

6. Have you checked out the disk with the diagnostic from the disk's
manufacturer? If not, do so.
Anna

This is the only hard drive. I have USB ports installed, but nothing
attached to them. The disk used to be the Primary slave, without an
OS. I disconnected the previous Primary Master, it was only 10G, and
changed this drive to the Master. Is it Kosher to set the only HDD as
a Slave?? I am set to auto detect HDD and everything is conencted. I
can try connecting to a different IDE cable, but like I said.. the
system runs fine as long as the CD is in but doesn't appear to be
booting from the CD. Have not checked disk with Manufacturere website,
but everything seems to be set0up properly.. just won;t boot without
CD. Once booted, I can take out the CD and the system runs great!!
Any more suggestions????
 
A

Anna

mfink said:
This is the only hard drive. I have USB ports installed, but nothing
attached to them. The disk used to be the Primary slave, without an
OS. I disconnected the previous Primary Master, it was only 10G, and
changed this drive to the Master. Is it Kosher to set the only HDD as
a Slave?? I am set to auto detect HDD and everything is conencted. I
can try connecting to a different IDE cable, but like I said.. the
system runs fine as long as the CD is in but doesn't appear to be
booting from the CD. Have not checked disk with Manufacturere website,
but everything seems to be set0up properly.. just won;t boot without
CD. Once booted, I can take out the CD and the system runs great!!
Any more suggestions????


mfink:
Just to verify, that 10 GB HDD is physically disconnected from the system,
right?

The reason I suggested connecting the HDD to another IDE channel is that at
times, for one reason or another, there's a problem with the Primary IDE
channel and as long as the HDD will boot from another IDE channel position,
it's worth trying. While virtually all modern motherboards will permit a
boot from the Secondary Master position, the same isn't true with respect to
a Slave connection - either Primary or Secondary. Depends upon the
motherboard.

Anyway, don't know really what else to suggest other than checking out the
disk with the HDD diagnostic you can probably download from the
manufacturer. And you have reviewed your BIOS elements to ensure they're as
they should be, right?

And assuming no problem with the HDD itself, try another fresh install of
the XP OS.
Anna
 
J

John John

You can boot with a Windows 98 startup disk and use fdisk to verify the
active status of the partition. Generally, if the Mark Active option is
greyed out the partition is already active, or another partition on the
disk is marked as active, thus preventing you to flag a second partition
as active, there is only one active partition at a time on a hard disc.

If the partition is indeed truly active then the boot sector may be
damaged. Here is one way that you can try to repair it without too much
hassle, install the Recovery Console. Launch the installation process
from Windows, when the installation is up and running. Installing the
Recovery Console may fix things. DON'T FORGET to remove the cd when you
are prompted to do so. When you install Windows not removing the cd
from the drive at the last reboot sometimes causes the type of problem
that you are experiencing.

Of course, as Anna suggested in her post if you have hardware problems
or if the hard drives are improperly connected or chained no amount of
fiddling will fix things. Make sure the drive is not in a slave
position, and that it is properly connected and on the right controller.

For instructions for the installation of the Recovery Console see:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307654

John
 
R

Ron Martell

just won;t boot without
CD. Once booted, I can take out the CD and the system runs great!!
Any more suggestions????

Take a look at the content of the boot.ini file on drive C:
Use Start - Run - MSCONFIG and go to the BOOT.INI tab
Copy and paste the content of the file back here.

Good luck

Ron Martell Duncan B.C. Canada
--
Microsoft MVP (1997 - 2006)
On-Line Help Computer Service
http://onlinehelp.bc.ca
Syberfix Remote Computer Repair

"Anyone who thinks that they are too small to make a difference
has never been in bed with a mosquito."
 
G

Guest

Anna: I am in the process of gearing up for an external USB drive
principally to image my HDD in case of a catastrphic incident. I have been
following up with great interest your posts on the subject especially your
stetp by step instructions for imaging and restoring the main drive. I have a
few questions, however:

1- My computer XP SP2 came with two partitions and was wondering how to
handle this imaging process with Acronis . Do I need to image the two
paritions consecutively or would Acronis do that automatically? and would the
imaged destination movable drive be bootable on the source drive in either
case? regardless of the imaging sequence?

2- Can you image two separate computers' drives (each with 2 partitions) on
the same movable drive, and how would you manage retoring the two (twin)
images to their repective source drives? If so do you need to partition the
destination drive for each of the two source drives? and how would that
affect your answer to your step 7 of your instructions regarding partition
deletion on the destination drive?

3- Could you treat the removable destination drive as a regular storage for
various data files from two computers in addition to the images?

4-After imaging and/or cloning how could you verify you actually did clone
or image on the movable drive? and could you safely restore to, say, your
still working drive as a dry run to veryfy the process before you really need
and have to?

Thanks for your help in the matter
 
A

Anna

Chebi said:
Anna: I am in the process of gearing up for an external USB drive
principally to image my HDD in case of a catastrphic incident. I have been
following up with great interest your posts on the subject especially your
stetp by step instructions for imaging and restoring the main drive. I
have a
few questions, however:

1- My computer XP SP2 came with two partitions and was wondering how to
handle this imaging process with Acronis . Do I need to image the two
paritions consecutively or would Acronis do that automatically? and would
the
imaged destination movable drive be bootable on the source drive in either
case? regardless of the imaging sequence?

2- Can you image two separate computers' drives (each with 2 partitions)
on
the same movable drive, and how would you manage retoring the two (twin)
images to their repective source drives? If so do you need to partition
the
destination drive for each of the two source drives? and how would that
affect your answer to your step 7 of your instructions regarding partition
deletion on the destination drive?

3- Could you treat the removable destination drive as a regular storage
for
various data files from two computers in addition to the images?

4-After imaging and/or cloning how could you verify you actually did clone
or image on the movable drive? and could you safely restore to, say, your
still working drive as a dry run to veryfy the process before you really
need
and have to?

Thanks for your help in the matter


Paul:
1. Yes, the Acronis program has the capability of imaging all the partitions
on one's HDD "in one fell swoop" as it were. In effect, you would be
creating a disk image of the entire disk which would include, of course, all
the partitions present on the disk. Incidentally, the program does have the
capability of creating disk images of *individual* partitions of a
multi-partitioned HDD.

2. Yes, you could use the same HDD to store the images of different
computers. I assume your reference to a "movable drive" refers to an
external HDD (USB or Firewire) but no matter; an internal HDD (presumably
secondary to one's primary boot drive) could also be used as the recipient,
i.e., the destination drive, of the disk images.

You need not partition the destination drive in that situation. Merely
designating different file names for the backup archives (files) would be
sufficient. (Obviously you would name them in such a way as to identify from
whence they came, right?)

With respect to your question re step 7 of the instructions - please note
that the information contained in that step referred to the disk-to-disk
cloning process - not the disk imaging process described in the second
section of the instructions. Recall that there are two basic backup methods
employed by the ATI program - disk-to-disk cloning and disk imaging.

Up to this point I've interpreted your questions as they relate to the disk
imaging process - *not* the disk cloning process. When you use the Acronis
program to clone the entire contents of one HDD to another HDD only then is
it necessary for the disk cloning process to delete all partitions on the
destination HDD. The Acronis program does not have the capability of
*cloning* individual partitions to another HDD. In that situation it's an
"all or nothing" proposition. As we've indicated, you *can* create disk
images of individual partitions.

3. Absolutely

4. If you used the disk cloning process and the recipient of the clone was a
USB or Firewire external HDD, the only way to definitively determine that a
clone was created would be to re:clone the contents of that external HDD to
an internal HDD - either the original source drive or another internal HDD.
Then, of course, you would boot to that drive to ensure all is well.

While you could, of course, peruse the cloned contents on the external HDD
following the disk cloning operation, this would not ensure that a viable
clone had been created.

If the HDD in its USB or Firewire external enclosure is removable (it's not
a commercial one-piece device nor are warranty issues involved), one could
remove the HDD from its enclosure and install it (temporarily) as an
internal HDD in the PC (I'm assuming we're talking desktop PCs here) and
boot to it. Admittedly that would be an awkward methodology for most users
but it is an option.

If, however, one had used another internal HDD as the recipient of the
clone, then it would be simply a matter of booting to that newly-cloned
drive to determine that all went well. Please note the cautionary note re
disconnecting the source HDD *before* booting to the destination HDD in that
situation.

Insofar as disk images are concerned, you would need to undertake the normal
recovery process to determine with assurance that a viable clone had been
created.

Our experience with the Acronis True Image program over nearly two years has
been quite positive. It has proven very reliable with respect to both the
disk cloning & disk imaging backup & recovery processes. But it (nearly)
goes without saying that using either process you must begin with a bootable
operating system that's completely functional and without significant
problems. If you clone garbage, garbage is what you'll get. I point that out
because it's amazing how many users we come across that somehow have the
idea that disk cloning (or disk imaging) will somehow remedy whatever
problems they were having with their system.
Anna
 
A

Andy

Ok, I have looked at a lot of posts and have seen a similar problem,
but no fixes helped me yet. I installed a brand new hard drive and
installed Windows XP Pro. My BIOS boot settings are as follows:

Floppy
CD-ROM
HDDO

Try booting from HDD1 or HDD2 or HDD3.
When I start the computer, it seems to take a lot of time recognizing
IDE devices and then pauses once it has recognized Primary Master,
Slave... etc... then it tries to boot and I get thsi message:

The long delay means that the disk probably isn't jumpered correctly.
Verifying DMI Pool Data..
BOOT FROM ATAPI CD-ROM:
DISK BOOT FAILURE, INSERT SYSTEM DISK AND PRESS ENTER.

As long as the XP CD is in the drive Windows will boot fine. I do not
press enter, therefore I am not really booting from the CD. If I Boot
from CD then the WIndows installer starts. If I don't have the CD I
cannot boot.

If you see the prompt to "press any key to boot from the CD," that
means that the BIOS has started to boot from the CD, and the startup
code on the CD detected a bootable hard drive. (If the startup code on
the CD does not detect a bootable hard drive, you won't see the
prompt, and the CD just continues booting.) Once this happens, the
boot process is no longer under control of the BIOS. If you press a
key, the CD continues booting. If you don't press a key, the startup
code on the CD boots the detected bootable hard drive.
Okay, what I've tried so far.

I've changed by boot sequences to all configurations, doesn't seem to
matter.

I ran Systam Console and did the following:

CopyD:\i386\NTLDR C:
CopyD:\i386\NTDETECT.COM C:

Files copied Fine... (This seemed to work for another post with the
same problem)
Did not work for me.....

Any more suggestions????

It's obvious that the hard drive is bootable, since it boots. The
problem is the configuration of the BIOS and/or physical connection of
the drive.
 
M

mfink

I found my fix. Anna, thanks for sending me to the HDD Manufacturere
website. Anyone installing a Western Digital Hard drive should read:

When installing a single Western Digital HDD, without a slave or
secondary drive, the jumper cannot be set to Master. It should be set
on pins 4 and 6 or on the CS if your system is CSEL compatable. Or you
can just leave the pin out if you are still having trouble.

Jumper should be set accordig to the following. [Jumper]

m s cs
================= - - - - - ======
================= - - [- -] - ======
IDE Cable Jumper Power

System is working GREAT now!!!
 
G

Guest

Anna: Thanks for your thourough response. I wish I had started this thread
under a different heading so as to help others with the same interest.

A couple of comments and further questions come to mind:

1- My apology regarding my mis-use of the terms "Movable" or "Removable"
drives. They all should refer to an external USB drive, and the one I have in
mind is the Maxtor USB2 external 250 GB ULTRA ATA 133. And after reading
various threads and comments on the subject, I am inclined to go the Imaging
Vs Cloning for my backups.

My goal is to backup my 60GB descktop drive (NTSF) and Laptop drive that
came partitioned ~45GB NTSF and 11GB FAT32 (Don't know why), both running XP
SP2, on the same external USB drive

2- I recall reading in one of the threads that Acronis would convert FAT32
formats to NTSF, and am wondering if that would affect the restored
performace on the Laptop. Would the restored disk consist of two NTSF drives
then or a single consolidated NTSF drive similar to the descktop? and does it
matter at all? (Again if this might be the case when Cloning not Imaging my
apology)

3- With regards to verification of the integrity of the image on the USB
drive, would it be possible to reboot either computer off the USB drive
directly with its corresponding image after modifying the boot bios to do so?
According to the litterature the drive is bootable if bios support function
is available. (How do I find out?)

4- Is there an advantage for SATA Vs ATA? the model comes in these two
versions with a minor price difference. I inadvertently ordered the ATA
without knowing any better. Is it worthwhile switching?

5- When restoring after a crash do you need to reformat the source drive
after using a bootable recovery disk, before restoring?

6- According to the litterature, the USB Drive comes with "Backup4all" one
touch backup software allowing Full, Differential, Incremental and *Mirror*
backups. Do you think I still need Acronis?

Many thanks again.

Paul Chebi
 
G

Guest

Anna: Thanks for your thorough reply. and my apology for the mis-use of the
terms movable and removable. What I meant is an external USB drive that I
intend to image my desktop 60GB NTSF and laptop that came with a partitioned
drive ~11GB Fat32 and 44GB NTSF.- Hence my previous question regarding the
imaging and restoring formats and partitioning.

1- I have in mind a Maxtor 250 GB USB2 ATA133 drive I ordered unkowingly of
the distinction between ATA and SATA. Is it woth while switcing to SATA?
There's hardly any price difference.

2- With regards to verification of the image in the destination drive, would
it be possible in addition to the two approaches you mentioned, to reboot
either computer straight off the USB drive? ( after modifying the bios)?
According to the literature, the USB drive is bootable with bios support. (
How can I find out about bios support?)

3- The literature also says the package comes with one step "Backup4all"
software allowing full,differential, incremental, and *Mirror* back-ups. Are
you familiar with that mirroring software and does it duplicate Acronis or do
I need Acronis just the same?

4- When restoring to a crashed non bootable drive with a rescue disk, do you
need to reformat the drive first?

With many thanks again.
 
G

Guest

Got an error of transmission on the first post today hence my second post -
same subject.

FYI
 
A

Anna

Paul:
My comments are inline...

Chebi said:
Anna: Thanks for your thourough response. I wish I had started this thread
under a different heading so as to help others with the same interest.

A couple of comments and further questions come to mind:

1- My apology regarding my mis-use of the terms "Movable" or "Removable"
drives. They all should refer to an external USB drive, and the one I have
in
mind is the Maxtor USB2 external 250 GB ULTRA ATA 133. And after reading
various threads and comments on the subject, I am inclined to go the
Imaging
Vs Cloning for my backups.

My goal is to backup my 60GB descktop drive (NTSF) and Laptop drive that
came partitioned ~45GB NTSF and 11GB FAT32 (Don't know why), both running
XP
SP2, on the same external USB drive

I assume your laptop contains a so-called "recovery" partition (the FAT32
one) and/or was created by the laptop's manufacturer to contain this or that
program. Leave it be, at least for the moment. Check your laptop's user
guide or with the manuf. to determine its contents. But don't modify or
delete the partition or any of its contents unless you're absolutely certain
it wouldn't cause future grief.
2- I recall reading in one of the threads that Acronis would convert FAT32
formats to NTSF, and am wondering if that would affect the restored
performace on the Laptop. Would the restored disk consist of two NTSF
drives
then or a single consolidated NTSF drive similar to the descktop? and does
it
matter at all? (Again if this might be the case when Cloning not Imaging
my
apology)

The resultant clone or disk image will retain the original file system.
There's no conversion involved affecting the file system currently on the
source disk. The only time this issue would arise would be if you would
clone the contents of an XP OS whose file system was NTFS onto a USB
external HDD that had been formatted FAT32 (as many of them are as they come
from the factory). In that case the resultant clone would retain the NTFS
file system of the source HDD.
3- With regards to verification of the integrity of the image on the USB
drive, would it be possible to reboot either computer off the USB drive
directly with its corresponding image after modifying the boot bios to do
so?
According to the litterature the drive is bootable if bios support
function
is available. (How do I find out?)

This is sort of a controversial issue. In our experience, working with
scores of USB external HDDs and a large variety of motherboards, we have
*never* been able to boot an XP OS from a USBEHD. And I have never directly
witnessed nor come across a fully documented & repeatable instance where
this capability was achieved. I must admit I get somewhat weary hearing or
reading the oft-cited "Yes, you can boot to a USB external hard drive if
your motherboard's BIOS supports this capability". All I can say is that
I've worked with many motherboards that presumably had this "capability",
but I've still never been able to boot an XP OS from a USBEHD.

But...

Having said all this, there have been reports that this capability has been
achieved. One of the more prominent ones is an article by Fred Langa at
http://www.informationweek.com/shared/printableArticleSrc.jhtml?articleID=177102101

Also, I have another reference...
http://www.ngine.de/index.jsp?pageid=4176

(I haven't checked out these links lately but you may want to do so as well
as do a Google search on the subject.)
4- Is there an advantage for SATA Vs ATA? the model comes in these two
versions with a minor price difference. I inadvertently ordered the ATA
without knowing any better. Is it worthwhile switching?

Yes, there is a considerable advantage in using the SATA interface rather
than a PATA one with respect to the disk cloning process. Understand I'm
referring to a direct SATA to SATA interface; I'm *not* referring to an
external device where a SATA HDD would be used as a USB device. So if you
have a motherboard with SATA capability and the external enclosure you're
using supports a SATA to SATA connection, it would be most desirable to use
that type of interface for the disk cloning operation. There are two
significant advantages...
1. Data transfer rates (disk cloning) would be considerably faster since the
SATA HDD is treated as an internal HDD and as such, its performance is
substantially superior to a USB-connected HDD.
2. And perhaps the more important consideration...
The resultant clone *would* be bootable since the SATA HDD in that situation
is considered an *internal* HDD by the system notwithstanding that it's
physically outside the compter's case.

Our advice to most users who are in the market for an exterior enclosure is
to consider purchasing one that has this SATA-to-SATA interface capability
as long as their system supports SATA. Nearly all of these enclosures are
also equipped with a USB interface as well.
5- When restoring after a crash do you need to reformat the source drive
after using a bootable recovery disk, before restoring?

No. Presumably you would be using the Acronis so-called "Bootable Rescue
Media" CD that you had created from the Acronis program. Assuming the
original source HDD is non-defective (mechanically/electronically) it would
be recognized by the Acronis program on the bootable CD and recovery could
proceed.
6- According to the litterature, the USB Drive comes with "Backup4all" one
touch backup software allowing Full, Differential, Incremental and
*Mirror*
backups. Do you think I still need Acronis?

I have never worked with that program so I can't give you any input on it. I
guess the only way to tell is to work with it, yes?
Anna
 

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