BIOS - COULD THERE A PROBLEM WITH MY PC'S BIOS?

[Guest]

Hi!
I understand from the many posts in in the forums, that the BIOS should
absolutely not be touched unless there is a problem.
I have posted two questions in under a couple of groups- one about back ups
and one about formatting PC and installing Windows XP Home but still have
lots of questions because I have been finding obstacles at every step I have
taken until now.
In short, I have a computer that is running extremely slowly and I am trying
to "FIX" with the help of the help articles I can find and the help of the
experts in these forum.

My first question is how do I know if there IS OR NOT a problem with the
BIOS? What are the simptoms of a sick BIOS?
Also, do I have to do anything at all in the BIOS when I format one of the
two internal hard drives on my PC?
I am preparing and planning to format the d drive which is the boot drive
and which also happens to have been added to my PC to try to solve its
slowness. The c drive is the original drive and that is the system drive.
I am sorry if there is not enough info here to enable you to help me but I
am just not sure what is needed, so please, if you are willing to help me
with my questions please let me know what info you need and I shall do my
very best to gather it and supply it. I have basic knowledge and normaly
require step by step help.
Since my first post a few weeks ago, I have learnt a lot and I continue to
do so by looking into other posts and websites provided in them as well as by
other means.

You guys are absolutely fantastic. I greatly appreciate your sharing of
knowledge.

Anxiously awaiting reply,
I am InfoHungry
Thanks in advance.

 

[DL]

If the bios is 'sick' then the PC probably wont post or boot, it'll be dead

Bios updates are released usually to cure a bug or give greater
functionality ie support more hardware.
Your motherboard web site is the place to look, unless its a large OEM, eg
Dell/HP or Laptop

If you propose formating D, which is your current sys drive, I'd suggest you
disconnected any other hd's first to ensure you finish up with a C sys
drive.
Use the winxp cd to delete partitions/create/format/install
Ensure you install drivers from manufacturers and not winupdate

 

[JS]

First it could be you have too much crap (especially temp files) on your
hard drive. Take a look at CCleaner as a tool to remove Internet history
info, cookies, temp files, auto complete and other junk. In the 'Windows'
tab listing check the item types you want deleted. Also available is
customization, see Options/Custom to add any other/additional folders you
want files deleted from.
http://www.ccleaner.com/

It also could be a specific sub-process or application that's taking all the
CPU resources and slowing down your PC.
To do this try Process Explorer:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/SystemInformation/ProcessExplorer.mspx

Once you have Process Explorer installed and running:
In the taskbar select View and check 'Show Process Tree' and 'Show Lower
Pane' options.
Then expand the process named 'Explorer' (click on the + sign)
In the column on the left named 'CPU', look for any high CPU usage.
Next click on the CPU column to sort the processes by %CPU usage (Highest to
Lowest).
Then click on the process that's using most or all the CPU % the highlight
it,
Now that it's highlighted, right click and from the options listed select:
Search Online
This should display what out there on the web about that process.
You can also double click on any process to open up a more detailed
'Properties' window.

Note: some entries like Explorer and System/Services may need to be expanded
to show the detail,
(sub processes), in this case click on the + located to the left of the
entry.

JS

 

[Phil Weldon]

'Ken Blake' wrote, in part:
| That depends on what you mean by "absolutely not be touched." If you
| are talking about updating it, I'd prefer to say that it should not be
| updated unless there is a need to do so, not just because a newer
| version is available.
|
| If you are taking about changing its settings, then I disagree. For
| example, there's nothing wrong with changing the boot order, as
| necessary.
..
..
| Over and above all that, if you reinstall without finding out what you
| did to cause the problem, you will probably quickly repeat the
| behavior that caused it, and find yourself in the same situation.
_____

Nicely presented.

Phil Weldon

| On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 11:00:01 -0700, InfoHungry
|
|
| > I understand from the many posts in in the forums, that the BIOS should
| > absolutely not be touched unless there is a problem.
|
|
|
| That depends on what you mean by "absolutely not be touched." If you
| are talking about updating it, I'd prefer to say that it should not be
| updated unless there is a need to do so, not just because a newer
| version is available.
|
| If you are taking about changing its settings, then I disagree. For
| example, there's nothing wrong with changing the boot order, as
| necessary.
|
|
| > I have posted two questions in under a couple of groups- one about back
ups
| > and one about formatting PC and installing Windows XP Home but still
have
| > lots of questions because I have been finding obstacles at every step I
have
| > taken until now.
| > In short, I have a computer that is running extremely slowly and I am
trying
| > to "FIX" with the help of the help articles I can find and the help of
the
| > experts in these forum.
| >
| > My first question is how do I know if there IS OR NOT a problem with the
| > BIOS? What are the simptoms of a sick BIOS?
|
|
| There's no such thing as a sick BIOS, and BIOSs don't develop
| problems. The reason for updating the BIOS is to provide additional
| support for something not in the earlier version.
|
| Your problem with running slowly has nothing to do with the BIOS. Post
| back with information about how long you've had the problem, what did
| you do or install shortly before it began, what your hardware is
| (especially CPU and RAM), what programs start automatically, and most
| important, what anti-virus and anti-spyware programs you run, and how
| often you update them.
|
|
|
| > Also, do I have to do anything at all in the BIOS when I format one of
the
| > two internal hard drives on my PC?
|
|
|
| No.
|
|
| > I am preparing and planning to format the d drive which is the boot
drive
| > and which also happens to have been added to my PC to try to solve its
| > slowness. The c drive is the original drive and that is the system
drive.
| > I am sorry if there is not enough info here to enable you to help me but
I
| > am just not sure what is needed, so please, if you are willing to help
me
| > with my questions please let me know what info you need and I shall do
my
| > very best to gather it and supply it. I have basic knowledge and normaly
| > require step by step help.
|
|
|
| Assuming that your problem is not hardware-related, then reformatting
| and reinstalling will almost certainly solve it. But in general I
| think that doing what you propose is a poor choice, and shouldn't be a
| substitute for troubleshooting the problem.
|
| This notion stems from the technical support people at many of the
| larger OEMs. Their solution to almost any problem they don't quickly
| know the answer to is "reformat and reinstall." That's the perfect
| solution for them. It gets you off the phone quickly, it almost always
| works, and it doesn't require them to do any real troubleshooting (a
| skill that most of them obviously don't possess in any great degree).
|
| But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You have to
| restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all your
| programs, you have to reinstall all the Windows and application
| updates,you have to locate and install all the needed drivers for your
| system, you have to recustomize Windows and all your apps to work the
| way you're comfortable with.
|
| Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome, you may
| have trouble with some of them: can you find all your application CDs?
| Can you find all the needed installation codes? Do you have data
| backups to restore? Do you even remember all the customizations and
| tweaks you may have installed to make everything work the way you
| like? Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve
| that Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and far
| between; reinstallation should not be a substitute for
| troubleshooting; it should be a last resort, to be done only after all
| other attempts at troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed.
|
| Over and above all that, if you reinstall without finding out what you
| did to cause the problem, you will probably quickly repeat the
| behavior that caused it, and find yourself in the same situation.
|
| --
| Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP Windows - Shell/User
| Please Reply to the Newsgroup

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

I understand from the many posts in in the forums, that the BIOS should
absolutely not be touched unless there is a problem.

That depends on what you mean by "absolutely not be touched." If you
are talking about updating it, I'd prefer to say that it should not be
updated unless there is a need to do so, not just because a newer
version is available.

If you are taking about changing its settings, then I disagree. For
example, there's nothing wrong with changing the boot order, as
necessary.

I have posted two questions in under a couple of groups- one about back ups
and one about formatting PC and installing Windows XP Home but still have
lots of questions because I have been finding obstacles at every step I have
taken until now.
In short, I have a computer that is running extremely slowly and I am trying
to "FIX" with the help of the help articles I can find and the help of the
experts in these forum.

My first question is how do I know if there IS OR NOT a problem with the
BIOS? What are the simptoms of a sick BIOS?

There's no such thing as a sick BIOS, and BIOSs don't develop
problems. The reason for updating the BIOS is to provide additional
support for something not in the earlier version.

Your problem with running slowly has nothing to do with the BIOS. Post
back with information about how long you've had the problem, what did
you do or install shortly before it began, what your hardware is
(especially CPU and RAM), what programs start automatically, and most
important, what anti-virus and anti-spyware programs you run, and how
often you update them.

Also, do I have to do anything at all in the BIOS when I format one of the
two internal hard drives on my PC?


No.


I am preparing and planning to format the d drive which is the boot drive
and which also happens to have been added to my PC to try to solve its
slowness. The c drive is the original drive and that is the system drive.
I am sorry if there is not enough info here to enable you to help me but I
am just not sure what is needed, so please, if you are willing to help me
with my questions please let me know what info you need and I shall do my
very best to gather it and supply it. I have basic knowledge and normaly
require step by step help.

Assuming that your problem is not hardware-related, then reformatting
and reinstalling will almost certainly solve it. But in general I
think that doing what you propose is a poor choice, and shouldn't be a
substitute for troubleshooting the problem.

This notion stems from the technical support people at many of the
larger OEMs. Their solution to almost any problem they don't quickly
know the answer to is "reformat and reinstall." That's the perfect
solution for them. It gets you off the phone quickly, it almost always
works, and it doesn't require them to do any real troubleshooting (a
skill that most of them obviously don't possess in any great degree).

But it leaves you with all the work and all the problems. You have to
restore all your data backups, you have to reinstall all your
programs, you have to reinstall all the Windows and application
updates,you have to locate and install all the needed drivers for your
system, you have to recustomize Windows and all your apps to work the
way you're comfortable with.

Besides all those things being time-consuming and troublesome, you may
have trouble with some of them: can you find all your application CDs?
Can you find all the needed installation codes? Do you have data
backups to restore? Do you even remember all the customizations and
tweaks you may have installed to make everything work the way you
like? Occasionally there are problems that are so difficult to solve
that Windows should be reinstalled cleanly. But they are few and far
between; reinstallation should not be a substitute for
troubleshooting; it should be a last resort, to be done only after all
other attempts at troubleshooting by a qualified person have failed.

Over and above all that, if you reinstall without finding out what you
did to cause the problem, you will probably quickly repeat the
behavior that caused it, and find yourself in the same situation.

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

'Ken Blake' wrote, in part:
| That depends on what you mean by "absolutely not be touched." If you
| are talking about updating it, I'd prefer to say that it should not be
| updated unless there is a need to do so, not just because a newer
| version is available.
|
| If you are taking about changing its settings, then I disagree. For
| example, there's nothing wrong with changing the boot order, as
| necessary.
.
.
| Over and above all that, if you reinstall without finding out what you
| did to cause the problem, you will probably quickly repeat the
| behavior that caused it, and find yourself in the same situation.
_____

Nicely presented.

Thanks very much, Phil.

 

[Gerry]

Forget the BIOS. You are barking up the wrong tree! I also think you
need to deal with one issue at a time. Your computer skills are most
likely not up to multi-tasking.

You say you your computer is running extremely slowly. What do you mean?
Is it slower than it has been? Does it take a long time to boot? If yes
how long? Is it slower running any particular operations. If yes what
operations?

Try Ctrl+Alt+Delete to select Task Manager and click the Performance
Tab. Under Commit Charge what is the Total, the Limit and the Peak?

How much RAM memory?

How large is your hard disk and how much free space.

What are your anti-virus and anti-spyware arrangements?

--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

[Jim]

Hi!
I understand from the many posts in in the forums, that the BIOS should
absolutely not be touched unless there is a problem.

Only update the BIOS if there is a reason to do so.

I have posted two questions in under a couple of groups- one about back
ups
and one about formatting PC and installing Windows XP Home but still have
lots of questions because I have been finding obstacles at every step I
have
taken until now.
In short, I have a computer that is running extremely slowly and I am
trying
to "FIX" with the help of the help articles I can find and the help of the
experts in these forum.

My first question is how do I know if there IS OR NOT a problem with the
BIOS? What are the simptoms of a sick BIOS?

The computer will not complete the POST routing. This is a self test of the
BIOS.

Also, do I have to do anything at all in the BIOS when I format one of the
two internal hard drives on my PC?

Only to change the boot device.

I am preparing and planning to format the d drive which is the boot drive
and which also happens to have been added to my PC to try to solve its
slowness. The c drive is the original drive and that is the system drive.
I am sorry if there is not enough info here to enable you to help me but I
am just not sure what is needed, so please, if you are willing to help me
with my questions please let me know what info you need and I shall do my
very best to gather it and supply it. I have basic knowledge and normaly
require step by step help.
Since my first post a few weeks ago, I have learnt a lot and I continue to
do so by looking into other posts and websites provided in them as well as
by
other means.

You guys are absolutely fantastic. I greatly appreciate your sharing of
knowledge.

Anxiously awaiting reply,
I am InfoHungry
Thanks in advance.

I am sorry, but you really haven't told me much about your computer except
that it seems slow to you.
Jim

 

[Guest]

Hi DL, Thank you for your advice. I am definitely only look at the
motherboard website to see if the updates they have are indeed needed so to
fix any previous edition bugs. I can still boot from any of my two drives
iven though the process can take up to 40 minutes. I will take your advice
and put it to good use. Much appreciated.
IH

 

[Guest]

Hi JS.
Greatly appreciate your advice. You are 100% correct in saying that there is
too much crap in my hard drive. I know that much. I DO delete history,
cookies, and temporary files in IE but I am not sure how to clean windows
temporay files. I run Disc Cleanup every now and then since I found out about
it not long ago, I defrag every few months too. I think that there are too
many processes running but had no idea how to sort through them and stop what
is not needed. my Task Manager tells me that the are 40 +- processes running
and lately CPU Usage has been reaching 100% at times. So I am going to the
sites you have indicated and will learn about Process Explorer.

Thank you very much
IH

 

[Guest]

Hello Ken, thank you for your time and very helpful advice. Following is some
info about my computer. Hope it helps you help me.

System Information report written at: 09/25/07 23:58:05
System Name:
[System Summary]

Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name
System Manufacturer System Manufacturer
System Model System Name
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software, Inc. ASUS P4S800 ACPI BIOS Revision 1004,
09.Jul.03
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale Australia
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180
(xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name \User
Time Zone AUS Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 512.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 68.43 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1.22 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Nero Info tool says that the configuration Is: Primary IDE Channel with a
Master - DMA off, Slave DMA on, Secondary IDE channel with a Master DMA on,
Autorun on, Slave DMA on, autorun on, and SiS OCI to USB Enhanced Host
controller(+ my all in one printer scanner copier's name) with no referrence
to DMA.
Prim IDE
Master : WDC WD800BB-00JHC0
DMA OFF
Slave ST3120022A
DMA on
Sec IDE
Master - _NEC DVD_RW ND-1300A
DMA on
Autorun on
Slave - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10N
DMA on
Autorun on
SIS PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
HP PSC 2355 USB Device


Disk 0 = E: NTFS Capacity 74.52GB – 61.26 GB Free Space = 82% Free Space =
Partition Basic Healthy (Active)
The above disk IS the D: drive that I have put in . It shows as E: when I am
logged into the C: (original) drive
Disk 1 = C: NTFS capacity 112 GB – 63.95GB free space = 57% free space =
Partition Basic, Healthy (System)
Disk 3 – removable G:
Cd – rom 0 – DVD (D
CD – rom 1 – DVD (F


I have had the PC for about 4 years and knew less then then now about
anything computer wise so I guess i have slowly messed it up to get it to
this point.

I have learnt a little bit about maintaining so I have rum disc clean up a
couple of times since I found out about it, I defrag every 3/4 months, I
clean IE temporary files, cookies, history almost daily.
I have hibernation turned off on both drives
I run the trendmicro house call scan and the windows live One care scan
about once a month.
I have automatic updates turned on
I have trend micro PC-cillin internet security 2007 with several daily
updated, full scan per week


I first noticed the PC being slow when I installed Norton internet security
a couple of years ago. Had a lot of troubles with it and also with spybot
search & destroy. at that time i also had the lovasoft adware freeware
installed.
Because i was having so many warnings and was having so much trouble getting
Norton to work I uninstalled it and tried the Windows live One care trial
with windows defender at the same time. As far as I can remember there were a
few conflicts and in the mean time the WLOC trial was over and I was not able
to purchase it because I live in Australia.
I thought I had too much stuff in the PC so I uninstalled the lot of them as
well as a lot of my own programs and went back to PC-Cillin which originaly
came with the computer.

the PC kept going slower and slower. my dvd burner did not work and i did
not know how to back up, but read about it and ended up installing Windows
backup Utility and used a few times but sometimes I could not burn to disc.
I went to the repair shop and since could not be responsible for backing up
my data they told me the best thing to do would be to install another
internal hard drive and leave the C: drive as it was. so I got them to do
that. they intalled/reinstalled Windows XP home about a year ago but there
was no improvement and in fact things have gotten a lot worth since then.

In view of all this I started searching for information to help myself FIX
my computer and came across this forum decided to ask some question and let
me tell you, i am impressed, I have learnt a fair bit form the info here.

I have had several sugestions that I should format both disks, but I agree
entirely when you say that I should first figure out what is causing the
problem in the first place.

Now, I have made matters a lot worse by copying things in an effort to BACK
UP.
after searching help some more I have bought an external drive for backing
up and did a full back up with WBUp utility. But I think I went the opposite
extreme. TOO MUCH back up if that is possible. I realise now I did several
very silly things in my ignorance. Back ups did not work properply,
copy/paste did not work properly, File transfer wizard failed miserably and
to top it all up i accidentally CUT/PASTE some files. I do have enough to get
me out of trouble I think but it will be a major job.
Major mess. Will require a major clean up, irealise that.
Still need to do something about the speed anyway.

I can boot from either drive.

I do have my WPX cd and key along with motherboard cd, drivers cd but am
not sure about key for these ones, I do not think I got them with the pc. I
have all my programs cds and keys and my printer, camera, broadband too.

As to customizing, well, it should be a little easier this time and it is
something I can live with, I guess.

What I really want is to have a PC that works as normaly as possible. At the
moment it is just a mightmare., and I realy want to avoid repeating past
mistakes.

As for the BIOS, it was just a thought, mine is probably just fine but I
will check manufacturer's site and shall not FLASH lightly.

Anyway, my atart time varies from 15 minutes and can go up to about
45minutes sometimes.
Shut down is not as bad but I always have to end one NON RESPONDING program
or another. In betweer start and shut down, sometimes it can go very slow -
cpu usage gets up to 100% especialy if updates are taking place. the mouse
pointer get hard to move and at time i click the mouse and it does not
actually register that I have clicked something.

I have a DSL 1500kps connection that also seams as slow as dial up
sometimes, not always.
I do not notice anything in particular that stands out apart form when the
updates are dowloading or a scan is running. Btu then again my knowledge is
limited and I might notice what is obvious to others.
I know there are too many processess running but I do not know what
can/cannot be stopped...
As for start up, that is just a repeat of everything else, too many things
there I think and not enough know how to find the info and change certain
settings.

To cut a long story short, You probaably NEVER saw a bigger mess.

Hope I have given you usefull information to HELP ME!...
I think I need to add some memory too. Please advise best way to go. I have
been getting different opinions too in that regard.

Thank you again. I anxiouly await your reply.
IH

 

[Guest]

Absolutely right, besides there is no better way to learn how to fix your PC
problems, I am all for it.
IH

 

[Guest]

Gerry and Jim, I also want to thank you for coming to my aide. I realy
appreciate it.
Please refer to my reply to Ken Blake above as I tried to include in it as
much info as I could and it is quite lenghthy. There should be enough info
there I hope. If not let me know. Thak you again.

And Yes Gerry I think you are tight. I was not sure if my PC problem had
anything to do with the BIOS and I asked this question mainly to get
information because I know for a fact that 99.9% of the problem resides in
the Windows side of things and in my lack of knowledge.

Thanks again
IH

 

[Gerry]

Some Event Viewer Reports might be helpful!

Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

HOW TO: View and Manage Event Logs in Event Viewer in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us

Part of the Description of the error will include a link, which you
should double click for further information. You can copy using copy
and paste. Often the link will, however, say there is no further
information.
http://go.microsoft.com/fw.link/events.asp
(Please note the hyperlink above is for illustration purposes only)

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Ken, thank you for your time and very helpful advice. Following
is some info about my computer. Hope it helps you help me.

System Information report written at: 09/25/07 23:58:05
System Name:
[System Summary]

Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name
System Manufacturer System Manufacturer
System Model System Name
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software, Inc. ASUS P4S800 ACPI BIOS Revision
1004,
09.Jul.03
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale Australia
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180
(xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name \User
Time Zone AUS Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 512.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 68.43 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1.22 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Nero Info tool says that the configuration Is: Primary IDE Channel
with a Master - DMA off, Slave DMA on, Secondary IDE channel with a
Master DMA on, Autorun on, Slave DMA on, autorun on, and SiS OCI to
USB Enhanced Host controller(+ my all in one printer scanner copier's
name) with no referrence to DMA.
Prim IDE
Master : WDC WD800BB-00JHC0
DMA OFF
Slave ST3120022A
DMA on
Sec IDE
Master - _NEC DVD_RW ND-1300A
DMA on
Autorun on
Slave - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10N
DMA on
Autorun on
SIS PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
HP PSC 2355 USB Device


Disk 0 = E: NTFS Capacity 74.52GB - 61.26 GB Free Space = 82% Free
Space = Partition Basic Healthy (Active)
The above disk IS the D: drive that I have put in . It shows as E:
when I am logged into the C: (original) drive
Disk 1 = C: NTFS capacity 112 GB - 63.95GB free space = 57% free
space = Partition Basic, Healthy (System)
Disk 3 - removable G:
Cd - rom 0 - DVD (D
CD - rom 1 - DVD (F


I have had the PC for about 4 years and knew less then then now about
anything computer wise so I guess i have slowly messed it up to get
it to this point.

I have learnt a little bit about maintaining so I have rum disc clean
up a couple of times since I found out about it, I defrag every 3/4
months, I clean IE temporary files, cookies, history almost daily.
I have hibernation turned off on both drives
I run the trendmicro house call scan and the windows live One care
scan about once a month.
I have automatic updates turned on
I have trend micro PC-cillin internet security 2007 with several daily
updated, full scan per week


I first noticed the PC being slow when I installed Norton internet
security a couple of years ago. Had a lot of troubles with it and
also with spybot search & destroy. at that time i also had the
lovasoft adware freeware installed.
Because i was having so many warnings and was having so much trouble
getting Norton to work I uninstalled it and tried the Windows live
One care trial with windows defender at the same time. As far as I
can remember there were a few conflicts and in the mean time the WLOC
trial was over and I was not able to purchase it because I live in
Australia.
I thought I had too much stuff in the PC so I uninstalled the lot of
them as well as a lot of my own programs and went back to PC-Cillin
which originaly came with the computer.

the PC kept going slower and slower. my dvd burner did not work and i
did not know how to back up, but read about it and ended up
installing Windows backup Utility and used a few times but sometimes
I could not burn to disc. I went to the repair shop and since could
not be responsible for backing up my data they told me the best thing
to do would be to install another internal hard drive and leave the
C: drive as it was. so I got them to do that. they
intalled/reinstalled Windows XP home about a year ago but there was
no improvement and in fact things have gotten a lot worth since then.

In view of all this I started searching for information to help
myself FIX my computer and came across this forum decided to ask some
question and let me tell you, i am impressed, I have learnt a fair
bit form the info here.

I have had several sugestions that I should format both disks, but I
agree entirely when you say that I should first figure out what is
causing the problem in the first place.

Now, I have made matters a lot worse by copying things in an effort
to BACK UP.
after searching help some more I have bought an external drive for
backing up and did a full back up with WBUp utility. But I think I
went the opposite extreme. TOO MUCH back up if that is possible. I
realise now I did several very silly things in my ignorance. Back ups
did not work properply, copy/paste did not work properly, File
transfer wizard failed miserably and to top it all up i accidentally
CUT/PASTE some files. I do have enough to get me out of trouble I
think but it will be a major job.
Major mess. Will require a major clean up, irealise that.
Still need to do something about the speed anyway.

I can boot from either drive.

I do have my WPX cd and key along with motherboard cd, drivers cd
but am not sure about key for these ones, I do not think I got them
with the pc. I have all my programs cds and keys and my printer,
camera, broadband too.

As to customizing, well, it should be a little easier this time and
it is something I can live with, I guess.

What I really want is to have a PC that works as normaly as possible.
At the moment it is just a mightmare., and I realy want to avoid
repeating past mistakes.

As for the BIOS, it was just a thought, mine is probably just fine
but I will check manufacturer's site and shall not FLASH lightly.

Anyway, my atart time varies from 15 minutes and can go up to about
45minutes sometimes.
Shut down is not as bad but I always have to end one NON RESPONDING
program or another. In betweer start and shut down, sometimes it can
go very slow - cpu usage gets up to 100% especialy if updates are
taking place. the mouse pointer get hard to move and at time i click
the mouse and it does not actually register that I have clicked
something.

I have a DSL 1500kps connection that also seams as slow as dial up
sometimes, not always.
I do not notice anything in particular that stands out apart form
when the updates are dowloading or a scan is running. Btu then again
my knowledge is limited and I might notice what is obvious to others.
I know there are too many processess running but I do not know what
can/cannot be stopped...
As for start up, that is just a repeat of everything else, too many
things there I think and not enough know how to find the info and
change certain settings.

To cut a long story short, You probaably NEVER saw a bigger mess.

Hope I have given you usefull information to HELP ME!...
I think I need to add some memory too. Please advise best way to go.
I have been getting different opinions too in that regard.

Thank you again. I anxiouly await your reply.
IH

 

[Guest]

Thank you Gerry,
I will look at it and post back .

Some Event Viewer Reports might be helpful!

Please post copies of all Error and Warning Reports appearing in
the System and Application logs in Event Viewer for the last boot. No
Information Reports or Duplicates please. Indicate which also appear in
a previous boot.

You can access Event Viewer by selecting Start, Control Panel,
Administrative Tools, and Event Viewer. When researching the meaning
of the error, information regarding Event ID, Source and Description
are important.

HOW TO: View and Manage Event Logs in Event Viewer in Windows XP
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/308427/en-us

Part of the Description of the error will include a link, which you
should double click for further information. You can copy using copy
and paste. Often the link will, however, say there is no further
information.
http://go.microsoft.com/fw.link/events.asp
(Please note the hyperlink above is for illustration purposes only)

A tip for posting copies of Error Reports! Run Event Viewer and double
click on the error you want to copy. In the window, which appears is a
button resembling two pages. Click the button and close Event
Viewer.Now start your message (email) and do a paste into the body of
the message. Make sure this is the first paste after exiting from
Event Viewer.


--



Hope this helps.

Gerry
~~~~
FCA
Stourport, England
Enquire, plan and execute
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hello Ken, thank you for your time and very helpful advice. Following
is some info about my computer. Hope it helps you help me.

System Information report written at: 09/25/07 23:58:05
System Name:
[System Summary]

Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name
System Manufacturer System Manufacturer
System Model System Name
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software, Inc. ASUS P4S800 ACPI BIOS Revision
1004,
09.Jul.03
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale Australia
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180
(xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name \User
Time Zone AUS Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 512.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 68.43 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1.22 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Nero Info tool says that the configuration Is: Primary IDE Channel
with a Master - DMA off, Slave DMA on, Secondary IDE channel with a
Master DMA on, Autorun on, Slave DMA on, autorun on, and SiS OCI to
USB Enhanced Host controller(+ my all in one printer scanner copier's
name) with no referrence to DMA.
Prim IDE
Master : WDC WD800BB-00JHC0
DMA OFF
Slave ST3120022A
DMA on
Sec IDE
Master - _NEC DVD_RW ND-1300A
DMA on
Autorun on
Slave - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10N
DMA on
Autorun on
SIS PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
HP PSC 2355 USB Device


Disk 0 = E: NTFS Capacity 74.52GB - 61.26 GB Free Space = 82% Free
Space = Partition Basic Healthy (Active)
The above disk IS the D: drive that I have put in . It shows as E:
when I am logged into the C: (original) drive
Disk 1 = C: NTFS capacity 112 GB - 63.95GB free space = 57% free
space = Partition Basic, Healthy (System)
Disk 3 - removable G:
Cd - rom 0 - DVD (D
CD - rom 1 - DVD (F


I have had the PC for about 4 years and knew less then then now about
anything computer wise so I guess i have slowly messed it up to get
it to this point.

I have learnt a little bit about maintaining so I have rum disc clean
up a couple of times since I found out about it, I defrag every 3/4
months, I clean IE temporary files, cookies, history almost daily.
I have hibernation turned off on both drives
I run the trendmicro house call scan and the windows live One care
scan about once a month.
I have automatic updates turned on
I have trend micro PC-cillin internet security 2007 with several daily
updated, full scan per week


I first noticed the PC being slow when I installed Norton internet
security a couple of years ago. Had a lot of troubles with it and
also with spybot search & destroy. at that time i also had the
lovasoft adware freeware installed.
Because i was having so many warnings and was having so much trouble
getting Norton to work I uninstalled it and tried the Windows live
One care trial with windows defender at the same time. As far as I
can remember there were a few conflicts and in the mean time the WLOC
trial was over and I was not able to purchase it because I live in
Australia.
I thought I had too much stuff in the PC so I uninstalled the lot of
them as well as a lot of my own programs and went back to PC-Cillin
which originaly came with the computer.

the PC kept going slower and slower. my dvd burner did not work and i
did not know how to back up, but read about it and ended up
installing Windows backup Utility and used a few times but sometimes
I could not burn to disc. I went to the repair shop and since could
not be responsible for backing up my data they told me the best thing
to do would be to install another internal hard drive and leave the
C: drive as it was. so I got them to do that. they
intalled/reinstalled Windows XP home about a year ago but there was
no improvement and in fact things have gotten a lot worth since then.

In view of all this I started searching for information to help
myself FIX my computer and came across this forum decided to ask some
question and let me tell you, i am impressed, I have learnt a fair
bit form the info here.

I have had several sugestions that I should format both disks, but I
agree entirely when you say that I should first figure out what is
causing the problem in the first place.

Now, I have made matters a lot worse by copying things in an effort
to BACK UP.
after searching help some more I have bought an external drive for
backing up and did a full back up with WBUp utility. But I think I
went the opposite extreme. TOO MUCH back up if that is possible. I
realise now I did several very silly things in my ignorance. Back ups
did not work properply, copy/paste did not work properly, File
transfer wizard failed miserably and to top it all up i accidentally
CUT/PASTE some files. I do have enough to get me out of trouble I
think but it will be a major job.
Major mess. Will require a major clean up, irealise that.
Still need to do something about the speed anyway.

I can boot from either drive.

I do have my WPX cd and key along with motherboard cd, drivers cd
but am not sure about key for these ones, I do not think I got them
with the pc. I have all my programs cds and keys and my printer,
camera, broadband too.

As to customizing, well, it should be a little easier this time and
it is something I can live with, I guess.

What I really want is to have a PC that works as normaly as possible.
At the moment it is just a mightmare., and I realy want to avoid
repeating past mistakes.

As for the BIOS, it was just a thought, mine is probably just fine
but I will check manufacturer's site and shall not FLASH lightly.

Anyway, my atart time varies from 15 minutes and can go up to about
45minutes sometimes.
Shut down is not as bad but I always have to end one NON RESPONDING
program or another. In betweer start and shut down, sometimes it can
go very slow - cpu usage gets up to 100% especialy if updates are
taking place. the mouse pointer get hard to move and at time i click
the mouse and it does not actually register that I have clicked
something.

I have a DSL 1500kps connection that also seams as slow as dial up
sometimes, not always.
I do not notice anything in particular that stands out apart form
when the updates are dowloading or a scan is running. Btu then again
my knowledge is limited and I might notice what is obvious to others.
I know there are too many processess running but I do not know what
can/cannot be stopped...
As for start up, that is just a repeat of everything else, too many
things there I think and not enough know how to find the info and
change certain settings.

To cut a long story short, You probaably NEVER saw a bigger mess.

Hope I have given you usefull information to HELP ME!...
I think I need to add some memory too. Please advise best way to go.
I have been getting different opinions too in that regard.

Thank you again. I anxiouly await your reply.
IH

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hello Ken, thank you for your time and very helpful advice. Following is some
info about my computer. Hope it helps you help me.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I don't see anything below that jumps out at me as being a problem.
However two points:

1. You say the system gets slower and slower. These days that's often
symptomatic of malware infection. You say you've run some anti-spyware
apps, but unless you are always protected with two or three, it may
not be good enough. I recommend that you begin troubleshooting by
going to MVP Malke's malware removal site at
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Removing_Malware and
following the instructions there.

2. You say "I have made matters a lot worse." It isn't clear to me
exactly what you've done, but disorganized random attempts to fix
things *can* make matters worse, and sometimes to the point where you
have no real alternative other than to reinstall cleanly. It isn't
clear to me whether you're at that point, but it's possible.

System Information report written at: 09/25/07 23:58:05
System Name:
[System Summary]

Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name
System Manufacturer System Manufacturer
System Model System Name
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software, Inc. ASUS P4S800 ACPI BIOS Revision 1004,
09.Jul.03
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale Australia
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180
(xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name \User
Time Zone AUS Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 512.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 68.43 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1.22 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Nero Info tool says that the configuration Is: Primary IDE Channel with a
Master - DMA off, Slave DMA on, Secondary IDE channel with a Master DMA on,
Autorun on, Slave DMA on, autorun on, and SiS OCI to USB Enhanced Host
controller(+ my all in one printer scanner copier's name) with no referrence
to DMA.
Prim IDE
Master : WDC WD800BB-00JHC0
DMA OFF
Slave ST3120022A
DMA on
Sec IDE
Master - _NEC DVD_RW ND-1300A
DMA on
Autorun on
Slave - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10N
DMA on
Autorun on
SIS PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
HP PSC 2355 USB Device


Disk 0 = E: NTFS Capacity 74.52GB – 61.26 GB Free Space = 82% Free Space =
Partition Basic Healthy (Active)
The above disk IS the D: drive that I have put in . It shows as E: when I am
logged into the C: (original) drive
Disk 1 = C: NTFS capacity 112 GB – 63.95GB free space = 57% free space =
Partition Basic, Healthy (System)
Disk 3 – removable G:
Cd – rom 0 – DVD (D
CD – rom 1 – DVD (F


I have had the PC for about 4 years and knew less then then now about
anything computer wise so I guess i have slowly messed it up to get it to
this point.

I have learnt a little bit about maintaining so I have rum disc clean up a
couple of times since I found out about it, I defrag every 3/4 months, I
clean IE temporary files, cookies, history almost daily.
I have hibernation turned off on both drives
I run the trendmicro house call scan and the windows live One care scan
about once a month.
I have automatic updates turned on
I have trend micro PC-cillin internet security 2007 with several daily
updated, full scan per week


I first noticed the PC being slow when I installed Norton internet security
a couple of years ago. Had a lot of troubles with it and also with spybot
search & destroy. at that time i also had the lovasoft adware freeware
installed.
Because i was having so many warnings and was having so much trouble getting
Norton to work I uninstalled it and tried the Windows live One care trial
with windows defender at the same time. As far as I can remember there were a
few conflicts and in the mean time the WLOC trial was over and I was not able
to purchase it because I live in Australia.
I thought I had too much stuff in the PC so I uninstalled the lot of them as
well as a lot of my own programs and went back to PC-Cillin which originaly
came with the computer.

the PC kept going slower and slower. my dvd burner did not work and i did
not know how to back up, but read about it and ended up installing Windows
backup Utility and used a few times but sometimes I could not burn to disc.
I went to the repair shop and since could not be responsible for backing up
my data they told me the best thing to do would be to install another
internal hard drive and leave the C: drive as it was. so I got them to do
that. they intalled/reinstalled Windows XP home about a year ago but there
was no improvement and in fact things have gotten a lot worth since then.

In view of all this I started searching for information to help myself FIX
my computer and came across this forum decided to ask some question and let
me tell you, i am impressed, I have learnt a fair bit form the info here.

I have had several sugestions that I should format both disks, but I agree
entirely when you say that I should first figure out what is causing the
problem in the first place.

Now, I have made matters a lot worse by copying things in an effort to BACK
UP.
after searching help some more I have bought an external drive for backing
up and did a full back up with WBUp utility. But I think I went the opposite
extreme. TOO MUCH back up if that is possible. I realise now I did several
very silly things in my ignorance. Back ups did not work properply,
copy/paste did not work properly, File transfer wizard failed miserably and
to top it all up i accidentally CUT/PASTE some files. I do have enough to get
me out of trouble I think but it will be a major job.
Major mess. Will require a major clean up, irealise that.
Still need to do something about the speed anyway.

I can boot from either drive.

I do have my WPX cd and key along with motherboard cd, drivers cd but am
not sure about key for these ones, I do not think I got them with the pc. I
have all my programs cds and keys and my printer, camera, broadband too.

As to customizing, well, it should be a little easier this time and it is
something I can live with, I guess.

What I really want is to have a PC that works as normaly as possible. At the
moment it is just a mightmare., and I realy want to avoid repeating past
mistakes.

As for the BIOS, it was just a thought, mine is probably just fine but I
will check manufacturer's site and shall not FLASH lightly.

Anyway, my atart time varies from 15 minutes and can go up to about
45minutes sometimes.
Shut down is not as bad but I always have to end one NON RESPONDING program
or another. In betweer start and shut down, sometimes it can go very slow -
cpu usage gets up to 100% especialy if updates are taking place. the mouse
pointer get hard to move and at time i click the mouse and it does not
actually register that I have clicked something.

I have a DSL 1500kps connection that also seams as slow as dial up
sometimes, not always.
I do not notice anything in particular that stands out apart form when the
updates are dowloading or a scan is running. Btu then again my knowledge is
limited and I might notice what is obvious to others.
I know there are too many processess running but I do not know what
can/cannot be stopped...
As for start up, that is just a repeat of everything else, too many things
there I think and not enough know how to find the info and change certain
settings.

To cut a long story short, You probaably NEVER saw a bigger mess.

Hope I have given you usefull information to HELP ME!...
I think I need to add some memory too. Please advise best way to go. I have
been getting different opinions too in that regard.

Thank you again. I anxiouly await your reply.
IH

 

[Guest]

Hello KEN,
I shall insert my answers into your reply so I do not miss giving you any
info. and again thank you for your most helpfull advice. Please scroll down
to find my answers:

You're welcome. Glad to help.

I don't see anything below that jumps out at me as being a problem.
However two points:

1. You say the system gets slower and slower. These days that's often
symptomatic of malware infection. You say you've run some anti-spyware
apps, but unless you are always protected with two or three, it may
not be good enough. I recommend that you begin troubleshooting by
going to MVP Malke's malware removal site at
http://www.elephantboycomputers.com/page2.html#Removing_Malware and
following the instructions there.

Re 1.- I have actually printed out that page and I am following it step by
step because Malke actually responded to my first post in ExpertZone -
Windows Basics i think my post reference was "Steps before during and after
formating hard disc drive" and he directed me there. But when it came to
Backing up I ran into a lot of trouble and posted back more questions but did
not receive a reply yet, so i kept looking for answers in other posts and
ended up on this BIOS related post which now I think is the last thing I will
need to address. I shall go back to it and start again.
I was trying to copy my files to disc without knowing that I needed 3rd
party software to do that. so I created folder called COPY OF C DRIVE, COPY
OF D DRIVE on my Desktop. Clicked on the MY Computer, clicked on each of the
drives in turn and clicked copy , clicked each respective COPY folder one at
a time and clicked PASTE. Had a lot of warnings saying something to the
effect that "this file could not be copied" and at this point I had the "show
system files" "show hidden files" on. so That does not seem to be a reliable
back up.
so I opened the Drive file and the COPY file at the same time and started
comparing them and trying to copy folder by folder from one window to the
other. Result - by accident I CUT & PASTE some of my files including some of
my VIP bookkeeping files. MESS RIGHT?
So I went looking again for info on backing up. Installed windows back up
utility from the CD, got myself an external hard drive and ran a full back up
staight into the external hard drive, then
I copied both the COPY OF DRIVE C & D folders I had done into the hard drive
as well.
THOSE FOLDERS are still on my desktop as I am too worried to delete them
because I suspect I have copied the WINDOWS folder into them and if I delete
those folder from C & D I am scared that might delete the REAL windows and
other important files. BIGGER MESS, so I got kinda stuck here at this point
not knowing how to clean up this MONSTER MESS as I call it that I created
myself from NOT KNOWING WHAT I AM DOING properly.
This means that the PC got much slower now because of the above and reaches
CPU usage 100% most of the time.

2. You say "I have made matters a lot worse." It isn't clear to me
exactly what you've done, but disorganized random attempts to fix
things *can* make matters worse, and sometimes to the point where you
have no real alternative other than to reinstall cleanly. It isn't
clear to me whether you're at that point, but it's possible.

RE 2- As you can see from the above, I think it is quite possible or even
certain that the drives including the external drive will all have to be
formated. They are pretty messed up with my back up creations on top of
whatever was causing the problem in the first place.

I really would much prefer to clean up the mess without formatting because I
am having problems retriving th BOOKKEEPING files which I am obligated to
keep for seven years for tax purposes,. I am not sure what went wrong with
these files but I have obtained a request for support form the actual program
manufacturers and should be ok to save the files to disc by the end of the
week I hope.
Appart from those files there is nothing in my system that I can not replace
apart from the driver & software?? for one of my DVD-rom drives which i do
not think i ever got a disc for when I got the PC, unless it is included in
the disc called DRIVERS that came with it. Everything else I have discs and
keys

In regards to Malaware, that is a positive I think, and I am now following your and Malke's advise and installing a few antyspyware programs.

So please give me the VERDICT = CLEAN UP???? or FORMAT??? I also notice a
lot of left over files from uninstalled programs, and icons that do not work.
LIST is very long.
Please advise at your convenience.
THANKS A MILLION>
IH

System Information report written at: 09/25/07 23:58:05
System Name:
[System Summary]

Item Value
OS Name Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition
Version 5.1.2600 Service Pack 2 Build 2600
OS Manufacturer Microsoft Corporation
System Name
System Manufacturer System Manufacturer
System Model System Name
System Type X86-based PC
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
Processor x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9 GenuineIntel ~3000 Mhz
BIOS Version/Date Award Software, Inc. ASUS P4S800 ACPI BIOS Revision 1004,
09.Jul.03
SMBIOS Version 2.3
Windows Directory C:\WINDOWS
System Directory C:\WINDOWS\system32
Boot Device \Device\HarddiskVolume2
Locale Australia
Hardware Abstraction Layer Version = "5.1.2600.2180
(xpsp_sp2_rtm.040803-2158)"
User Name \User
Time Zone AUS Eastern Standard Time
Total Physical Memory 512.00 MB
Available Physical Memory 68.43 MB
Total Virtual Memory 2.00 GB
Available Virtual Memory 1.96 GB
Page File Space 1.22 GB
Page File C:\pagefile.sys

Nero Info tool says that the configuration Is: Primary IDE Channel with a
Master - DMA off, Slave DMA on, Secondary IDE channel with a Master DMA on,
Autorun on, Slave DMA on, autorun on, and SiS OCI to USB Enhanced Host
controller(+ my all in one printer scanner copier's name) with no referrence
to DMA.
Prim IDE
Master : WDC WD800BB-00JHC0
DMA OFF
Slave ST3120022A
DMA on
Sec IDE
Master - _NEC DVD_RW ND-1300A
DMA on
Autorun on
Slave - HL-DT-ST DVDRAM GSA-H10N
DMA on
Autorun on
SIS PCI to USB Enhanced Host Controller
HP PSC 2355 USB Device


Disk 0 = E: NTFS Capacity 74.52GB – 61.26 GB Free Space = 82% Free Space =
Partition Basic Healthy (Active)
The above disk IS the D: drive that I have put in . It shows as E: when I am
logged into the C: (original) drive
Disk 1 = C: NTFS capacity 112 GB – 63.95GB free space = 57% free space =
Partition Basic, Healthy (System)
Disk 3 – removable G:
Cd – rom 0 – DVD (D
CD – rom 1 – DVD (F


I have had the PC for about 4 years and knew less then then now about
anything computer wise so I guess i have slowly messed it up to get it to
this point.

I have learnt a little bit about maintaining so I have rum disc clean up a
couple of times since I found out about it, I defrag every 3/4 months, I
clean IE temporary files, cookies, history almost daily.
I have hibernation turned off on both drives
I run the trendmicro house call scan and the windows live One care scan
about once a month.
I have automatic updates turned on
I have trend micro PC-cillin internet security 2007 with several daily
updated, full scan per week


I first noticed the PC being slow when I installed Norton internet security
a couple of years ago. Had a lot of troubles with it and also with spybot
search & destroy. at that time i also had the lovasoft adware freeware
installed.
Because i was having so many warnings and was having so much trouble getting
Norton to work I uninstalled it and tried the Windows live One care trial
with windows defender at the same time. As far as I can remember there were a
few conflicts and in the mean time the WLOC trial was over and I was not able
to purchase it because I live in Australia.
I thought I had too much stuff in the PC so I uninstalled the lot of them as
well as a lot of my own programs and went back to PC-Cillin which originaly
came with the computer.

the PC kept going slower and slower. my dvd burner did not work and i did
not know how to back up, but read about it and ended up installing Windows
backup Utility and used a few times but sometimes I could not burn to disc.
I went to the repair shop and since could not be responsible for backing up
my data they told me the best thing to do would be to install another
internal hard drive and leave the C: drive as it was. so I got them to do
that. they intalled/reinstalled Windows XP home about a year ago but there
was no improvement and in fact things have gotten a lot worth since then.

In view of all this I started searching for information to help myself FIX
my computer and came across this forum decided to ask some question and let
me tell you, i am impressed, I have learnt a fair bit form the info here.

I have had several sugestions that I should format both disks, but I agree
entirely when you say that I should first figure out what is causing the
problem in the first place.

Now, I have made matters a lot worse by copying things in an effort to BACK
UP.
after searching help some more I have bought an external drive for backing
up and did a full back up with WBUp utility. But I think I went the opposite
extreme. TOO MUCH back up if that is possible. I realise now I did several
very silly things in my ignorance. Back ups did not work properply,
copy/paste did not work properly, File transfer wizard failed miserably and
to top it all up i accidentally CUT/PASTE some files. I do have enough to get
me out of trouble I think but it will be a major job.
Major mess. Will require a major clean up, irealise that.
Still need to do something about the speed anyway.

I can boot from either drive.

I do have my WPX cd and key along with motherboard cd, drivers cd but am
not sure about key for these ones, I do not think I got them with the pc. I
have all my programs cds and keys and my printer, camera, broadband too.

As to customizing, well, it should be a little easier this time and it is
something I can live with, I guess.

What I really want is to have a PC that works as normaly as possible. At the
moment it is just a mightmare., and I realy want to avoid repeating past
mistakes.

As for the BIOS, it was just a thought, mine is probably just fine but I
will check manufacturer's site and shall not FLASH lightly.

Anyway, my atart time varies from 15 minutes and can go up to about
45minutes sometimes.
Shut down is not as bad but I always have to end one NON RESPONDING program
or another. In betweer start and shut down, sometimes it can go very slow -
cpu usage gets up to 100% especialy if updates are taking place. the mouse
pointer get hard to move and at time i click the mouse and it does not
actually register that I have clicked something.

I have a DSL 1500kps connection that also seams as slow as dial up
sometimes, not always.
I do not notice anything in particular that stands out apart form when the
updates are dowloading or a scan is running. Btu then again my knowledge is
limited and I might notice what is obvious to others.
I know there are too many processess running but I do not know what
can/cannot be stopped...
As for start up, that is just a repeat of everything else, too many things
there I think and not enough know how to find the info and change certain
settings.

To cut a long story short, You probaably NEVER saw a bigger mess.

Hope I have given you usefull information to HELP ME!...
I think I need to add some memory too. Please advise best way to go. I have
been getting different opinions too in that regard.

Thank you again. I anxiouly await your reply.
IH

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

Hello KEN,
I shall insert my answers into your reply

That's fine. It's my preferred way of replying. I'm doing the same
here.

so I do not miss giving you any
info. and again thank you for your most helpfull advice.

You're welcome. Glad to help.

Please scroll down
to find my answers:


Re 1.- I have actually printed out that page and I am following it step by
step because Malke actually responded to my first post in ExpertZone -
Windows Basics i think my post reference was "Steps before during and after
formating hard disc drive" and he

Malke is a "she."

directed me there. But when it came to
Backing up I ran into a lot of trouble and posted back more questions but did
not receive a reply yet, so i kept looking for answers in other posts and
ended up on this BIOS related post which now I think is the last thing I will
need to address. I shall go back to it and start again.
I was trying to copy my files to disc without knowing that I needed 3rd
party software to do that.

No, you don't necessarily need third-party software. You get extra
capability using third-party software, but depending on your needs,
just copying them is often fine.

so I created folder called COPY OF C DRIVE, COPY
OF D DRIVE on my Desktop. Clicked on the MY Computer, clicked on each of the
drives in turn and clicked copy ,

Two points:

1. If you are planning on reformatting your drive, copying *anything*
to it won't help you at all. Reformatting will wipe out anything you
copy. You need to copy to an *external* device or devices--CDs, DVDs,
thumb drives, external USB hard drives, etc.

2. For various reasons, you can't just make a copy of the C: drive
using standard Windows facilities. If that's what you want to do, you
need third-party software. However you *can* copy your data files that
way; just be sure you copy to external devices.

clicked each respective COPY folder one at
a time and clicked PASTE. Had a lot of warnings saying something to the
effect that "this file could not be copied" and at this point I had the "show
system files" "show hidden files" on. so That does not seem to be a reliable
back up.

No, it's not. See point 1, above.

so I opened the Drive file and the COPY file at the same time and started
comparing them and trying to copy folder by folder from one window to the
other. Result - by accident I CUT & PASTE some of my files including some of
my VIP bookkeeping files. MESS RIGHT?
So I went looking again for info on backing up. Installed windows back up
utility from the CD, got myself an external hard drive and ran a full back up
staight into the external hard drive, then
I copied both the COPY OF DRIVE C & D folders I had done into the hard drive
as well.
THOSE FOLDERS are still on my desktop as I am too worried to delete them
because I suspect I have copied the WINDOWS folder into them and if I delete
those folder from C & D I am scared that might delete the REAL windows and
other important files. BIGGER MESS, so I got kinda stuck here at this point
not knowing how to clean up this MONSTER MESS as I call it that I created
myself from NOT KNOWING WHAT I AM DOING properly.
This means that the PC got much slower now because of the above and reaches
CPU usage 100% most of the time.


RE 2- As you can see from the above, I think it is quite possible or even
certain that the drives including the external drive will all have to be
formated. They are pretty messed up with my back up creations on top of
whatever was causing the problem in the first place.

I follow what you've said only partially, but certainly it's possible
that formatting is your only good solution at this point.

I really would much prefer to clean up the mess without formatting because I
am having problems retriving th BOOKKEEPING files which I am obligated to
keep for seven years for tax purposes,. I am not sure what went wrong with
these files but I have obtained a request for support form the actual program
manufacturers and should be ok to save the files to disc by the end of the
week I hope.

If you are having trouble retrieving the files, you will have the same
trouble whether you do nothing or back them up, reformat and reinstall
Windows, and then restore your backed up bookkeeping files. I would
think you could simply copy and paste those files to external media,
like your external drive, but I don't understand what you may have
done to damage them. Hopefully the program manufacturer can help you
with the details there.

Appart from those files there is nothing in my system that I can not replace
apart from the driver & software?? for one of my DVD-rom drives which i do
not think i ever got a disc for when I got the PC, unless it is included in
the disc called DRIVERS that came with it.

If you need a driver for the DVD drive, you should be able to download
it from the manufacturer's web site.

Everything else I have discs and
keys

If you decide to reformat and reinstall, you don't need to do that
now. But be sure you protect yourself adequately for the future after
reinstalling Windows.

So please give me the VERDICT = CLEAN UP???? or FORMAT???

Sorry, but I can almost never make that decision for someone else. It
depends on so many factors, most of which I simply can't see from
here. Besides not being able to see how badly your system is screwed
up, I can't tell how much trouble a clean reinstallation would be for
you, because I know nothing about what you have installed, how much
customization you've done, what your skill level is, and so on. Most
of the time I strongly recommend against reinstallation, but I suspect
that your situation may be an exception, and you *should* reinstall.
But please note the word "suspect." Suspect is all I can do, and I'm
afraid you'll have to make your own decision.

But for the future, whether or not you reinstall, I have two pieces of
advice for you:

1. Make sure that you are *always* protected against malware.

2. Make sure that you *always* have a backup of any data you can't
afford to lose, stored on external media.

 

[Guest]

HI KEN, HOPE ALL IS WELL.

I HAVE GOTTEN OVER MY MAJOR HURDDLE WITH MY BOOKKEEPING PROGRAM. IT IS
ALMOST BACK TO HOW I LAST LEFT IT. I JUST HAVE TO TIE UP SOME LOOSE ENDS
TOMORROW. SO NOW I KNOW I HAVE A "GOOD BACK UP" OF IT ON DISC.
PLEASE SCROLL DOWN, THANK YOU.

That's fine. It's my preferred way of replying. I'm doing the same
here.





You're welcome. Glad to help.

AND YOU DON'T IMAGINE HOW GLAD I AM THAT YOU CAN AND ARE HELPING ME, THANK
YOU SO MUCH.

Malke is a "she." OOPS, MY APPOLOGIES.





No, you don't necessarily need third-party software. You get extra
capability using third-party software, but depending on your needs,
just copying them is often fine.

I TRIED THAT BUT COULD NOT COPY THAT WAY, I GUESS I HAVE NOT YET FIGURED OUT
HOW TO DO THAT PROPERLY. I WILL TRY AGAIN AND LEARN HOW TO. BUT AT LEAST NOW
I HAVE THE SOFTWARE AND CAN DO MORE WITH IT.

Two points:

1. If you are planning on reformatting your drive, copying *anything*
to it won't help you at all. Reformatting will wipe out anything you
copy. You need to copy to an *external* device or devices--CDs, DVDs,
thumb drives, external USB hard drives, etc.

2. For various reasons, you can't just make a copy of the C: drive
using standard Windows facilities. If that's what you want to do, you
need third-party software. However you *can* copy your data files that
way; just be sure you copy to external devices.

FOR THE 2 POINTS ABOVE: I DID INDEED DO COPIES TO CD/DVD AND EXTERNAL DRIVE.
IT IS THE INTEGRITY OF THE COPIES THAT WORRIES ME AND ALSO I DO NOT KNOW IF I
HAVE ALL THE "ESSENTIAL" FILES THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO RUN PROPERLY. I NOW HAVE
ALL MY PROGRAMS AND VIP FILES ON DISCS. PUTTING THEM BACK INTO THE SYSTEM
CORRECTLY AFTER FORMATTING IS ANOTHER WORRY FOR ME - I AM NOT 100% SURE IF IT
IS STRAIGHT FORWARD ENOUGH FOR ME TO DO - IF I JUST HAVE TO COPY THEM BACK
THAT IS OK, I THINK.

FOR NOW I DO NOT REALLY WANT A "COPY" OF MY HARD DRIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE
VERY MESSED UP. I WILL WANT TO DO IT WHEN MY SYSTEM IS "CLEAN" AND WORKING
WELL THOUGH. FOR NOW I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I COPY ALL NECESSARY FILES - I
HAVE BEEN LOOKING BUT COULD NOT FIND A "LIST" OF FILES THAT ARE IMPERATIVE TO
HAVE TO ENABLE ME TO GET THE PC TO WORK AFTER FORMATING OR SYSTEM FAILURE.

No, it's not. See point 1, above.

JUST AS I THOUGHT. SO APART FROM FILES THAT I CREATE MYSELF (LETTERS,
PHOTOS, FAMILY MOVIES, BOOKKEEPING FILES) WHAT OTHER FILES DO I NEED TO COPY
SO I HAVE ALL ABSOLUTELY NECESSATY FILES TO BE USED ON SYSTEM FAILURE OR
HARD DRIVE FORMATTING/WINDOWS REINSTALL?

I follow what you've said only partially, but certainly it's possible
that formatting is your only good solution at this point.

WHAT I HAVE DONE IS: TOO MANY COPIES WHICH ALSO NOW HAVE COPIES OF THEIR
OUWN AND BACKUPS THAT ARE IN REALITY NOT "USEABLE" AND ARE TAKING GB OF HARD
DISK SPACE. I AM SURE I EVEN MANAGED TO HAVE WINDOWS RUNNING IN MY EXTERNAL
DRIVE, SUCH IS THE EXTENT OF MY SO CALLED "COPIES OF" AND BACK UPS. I THINK
THEY ARE IN THE GREAT MAJORITY - USELESS- AND I NEED TO GET RID OF THEM AND
START FRESH.

TO START FRESH I HAVE SOME MORE QUESTIONS DOWN BELOW:
THE ABOVE IS NO LONGER A PROBLEM, I HAVE WHAT I NEED NOW, A "GOOD BACK UP"
OF MY BOOKKEEPING ON DISC.

If you are having trouble retrieving the files, you will have the same
trouble whether you do nothing or back them up, reformat and reinstall
Windows, and then restore your backed up bookkeeping files. I would
think you could simply copy and paste those files to external media,
like your external drive, but I don't understand what you may have
done to damage them. Hopefully the program manufacturer can help you
with the details there.

I INSTALLED THE PROGRAM AND THEN MOVED IT INTO MY "BUSINESS" FOLDER. WHEN
THE SECOND DRIVE WAS PUT IN AND I HAD TO REINSTALL THE PROGRAM, THE LINKS DID
NOT WORK, SO I HAD TO REINSTALL THE PROGRAM AGAIN AND RESTORE THE DATA FILES
FROM BACKUP. (THE PROGRAM'S OWN BACKUP FACILITY) NOW IT IS FINE.

If you need a driver for the DVD drive, you should be able to download
it from the manufacturer's web site. OK THEN. DO THEY NEED KEYS? I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OF THESE.




If you decide to reformat and reinstall, you don't need to do that
now. But be sure you protect yourself adequately for the future after
reinstalling Windows.






Sorry, but I can almost never make that decision for someone else.

I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER ABOVE AND APPOLOGISE, I JUST NEED TO ESTABLISH
CLEARLY IN MY HEAD IF I HAVE WHAT I NEED IN CASE I NEED TO FORMAT. ALSO I
THOUGHT THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOME CLUE AS TO THE STATE OF MY SYSTEM FROM
THE INFO I POSTED LAST. UNFORTUNATELY THAT DID NOT PROVIDE ANYTHING
CONCRETE... SO FOR NOW I THINK I SHOULD CLEAN UP SOME OF THE MESSY FOLDERS
AND TRY TO DO A FRESH BACK UP, HOW DOES THIS REASONING COME ACROSS TO YOU?
It

depends on so many factors, most of which I simply can't see from
here.

IF YOU ACCESSED MY PC YOU'D PROBABLY BE ABLE TO FIX IT IN NEXT TO NO TIME.
ME, IT IS A DIFFERENT STORY. I AM ON MY BABY STEPS AND I AM PROBABLY EVEN
MAKING THINGS SOUND WORTH THEN THEY RALLY ARE JUST BECAUSE OF LACK OF
KNOWLEDGE.

Besides not being able to see how badly your system is screwed

up, I can't tell how much trouble a clean reinstallation would be for
you, because I know nothing about what you have installed, how much
customization you've done, what your skill level is, and so on. Most
of the time I strongly recommend against reinstallation, but I suspect
that your situation may be an exception, and you *should* reinstall.
But please note the word "suspect." Suspect is all I can do, and I'm
afraid you'll have to make your own decision.

FOR THE ABOVE: I WOULD DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE TO TREAD VERY CAREFULLY AND
WITH VERY GOOD AND CLEAR, COMPLETE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS IN WHAT RELATES
TO BIOS. I HAVE NOT GONE IN THERE TO CHANGE ANYTHING, EVER. IF I NEED TO
CHANGE BOOT PRIORITIES I CAN PROBABLY DO IT WITH GOOD INSTRUTIONS. I HAVE MY
MOTHERBOARD INTRUSTION MANUAL AND DISC. I AM A BIT SCARED OF OPENING THE BOX
AND REMOVE AND REPLACE DRIVES IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO
DO. AGAIN I WOULD NEED STEP BY STEP INFO.

CUSTOMISING I DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF THINGS DONE BUT I AM CONFIDENT I CAN
BRING IT ALL BACK EASILY. I HAD TO DO THAT WHEN THE SECOND HARD DRIVE WAS PUT
IN.

FORMATING BASIC SHOULD BE OK BUT I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT PARTITIONS OR
SIMILER THINGS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM INSTALLING PRINTER,CAMERA, PROGRAMS
I FORMATED MY EXTERNAL DRIVE FROM FAT32 TO NTFS BEFORE USING IT TO BACKUP
BUT IT WAS QUITE STRAIGHT FORWARD.
I DEFINITELY HAVE DIFFICULTIES WITH START UP CONFIGURATION. I KNOW I HAVE
TOO MANY PROCESS RUNNING THAT SHOULD NOT BE, BUT I AM READING UP ON IT.
I DO HAVE A LOT OF CLUTTER SUCH AS: LEFT OVER FILES FROM UNINSTALLED
PROGRAMS - 840 ENTRIES THAT DO NOT WORK IN THE REGISTRY, AND GOD KNOWS HOW
MUCH SPYWARE/MALAWARE GONE UNDETECTED THAT I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIND AND
CLEAN. IF FILES HAVE TO BE DELETED I AM NEVER SURE IF IT WILL AFFECT THE
SYSTEM AND OTHER PORGRAMS.

NOW FOR ANOTHER QUESTION TO HELP ME CLEAN UP A BIT: IS IT SAFE TO DELETE THE
FOLDERS I CREATED OF "COPY OF C" AND "COPY OF D"? WINDOWS WAS COPIED AS WELL.
IT RUNS IN MY EXTERNAL DRIVE IF I CHANGE THE BOOT.INI. I AM SCARED THAT IF I
DELETE THOSE FILES IT MIGHT DO SOMETHING WRONG TO THE ORIGINAL FILES IN THE
HARD DRIVES. AT ONE POINT MY EXTERNAL DRIVE SHOWED AS "MBR" IN DISK
MAHAGEMENT. PLEASE EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE BUT THIS IS VERY PUZZLING FOR ME. I
KNOW THEY ARE "COPIES" BUT I AM ASKING JUST IN CASE IT CAUSES ME MORE GRIEF.
PLEASE ADVISE

I DO NOT HAVE ANY GAMES, SCREEN SAVERS INSTALLED BUT I SHALL GIVE YOU MORE
DETAILED INFO OF WHAT I HAVE INSTALLED IN MY PC LATER IF YOU WANT TO LOOK
FURTHER INTO IT, SO I DON'T MAKE IT TOO LONG HERE AT THIS STAGE.
I RAN A DISK CHECK FROM SEAGATE AND BOTH DRIVES CAME UP WITH A PASS BUT I
REMEMBER HAVING FATAL ERROR MESSAGES AND BAD DISK SECTOR MESSAGES IN THE
PAST, QUITE EARLY IN THE PIECE, CAN NOT REMEMBER DETAILS THOUGH.

But for the future, whether or not you reinstall, I have two pieces of
advice for you:

1. Make sure that you are *always* protected against malware. FOR SURE I AM TAKING STEPS IN THAT DIRECTION NOW, I WAS UNAWARE THAT MY PROTECTION WAS INADEQUATE, I THOUGHT THAT HAVING MORE THAN ONE THING WOULD CAUSE CONFLICTS AND DID HAVE SOME ANTISPYWARE LONG TIME AGO BUT UNINSTALLED THEM WHEN THE COMPUTER STARTED HAVING SLOW DOWNS AND CRASHES TOO OFTEN.

2. Make sure that you *always* have a backup of any data you can't
afford to lose, stored on external media.
ONCE I K NOW WHAT FILES ARE NECESSARY FOR A "GOOD" BACK UP I "WILL" HAVE A GOOD BACK UP, I USUALLY TAKE CARE BUT IT IS JUST SAD THAT I FAILED AT ALL MY ATTEMPTS TO HAVE A GOOD BACK UP.

BY THE WAY I RAN A SEARCH OF "BACK UP" AND FOUND A LONG LIST OF FILES SOME
OF THEM FROM WHEN I TRIALED WINDOWS LIVE ONE CARE AND WINDOWS DEFENDER.
HOPE THIS IS USEFUL FOR NOW. PLEASE BE PATIENT WITH ME A LITTLE LONGER. I
REALLY DO APPRECIATE YOUR TIME AND INPUT.
TILL NEXT POST. THANK YOU AGAIN
IH

 

[Ken Blake, MVP]

HI KEN, HOPE ALL IS WELL.

I HAVE GOTTEN OVER MY MAJOR HURDDLE WITH MY BOOKKEEPING PROGRAM. IT IS
ALMOST BACK TO HOW I LAST LEFT IT. I JUST HAVE TO TIE UP SOME LOOSE ENDS
TOMORROW. SO NOW I KNOW I HAVE A "GOOD BACK UP" OF IT ON DISC.
PLEASE SCROLL DOWN, THANK YOU.

You're welcome. But for the future, please do *not* post in all
capitals. It's very hard on the eyes, and it feels like you're
shouting at me.

Normally, I would ignore a message like this with all these capitals,
but since we've started corresponding about your issue, I'll make an
exception for you, and read it and continue. See below.

AND YOU DON'T IMAGINE HOW GLAD I AM THAT YOU CAN AND ARE HELPING ME, THANK
YOU SO MUCH.

You're welcome again.

I TRIED THAT BUT COULD NOT COPY THAT WAY, I GUESS I HAVE NOT YET FIGURED OUT
HOW TO DO THAT PROPERLY.

It depends on what you are trying to copy. See point 2, quoted
immediately below.

FOR THE 2 POINTS ABOVE: I DID INDEED DO COPIES TO CD/DVD AND EXTERNAL DRIVE.
IT IS THE INTEGRITY OF THE COPIES THAT WORRIES ME

Look at what you've copied. Open the files.

AND ALSO I DO NOT KNOW IF I
HAVE ALL THE "ESSENTIAL" FILES THE SYSTEM NEEDS TO RUN PROPERLY.

Not everyone wants to back up all the files the system needs to run
properly. Read below for the two approaches to backup.

I NOW HAVE
ALL MY PROGRAMS AND VIP FILES ON DISCS. PUTTING THEM BACK INTO THE SYSTEM
CORRECTLY AFTER FORMATTING IS ANOTHER WORRY FOR ME -

There are two very different approach to backup.

1. You can create an image (or clone) of your entire drive (usually on
a removable hard drive). That requires special software to do it. It
can not be done by simply copying files. If you do that, and the
original drive dies, all you need to do is replace the original drive,
then restore your image to the new drive.

2. You can back up individual files that contain important data, not
everything on the drive. If you lose the original drive in that
scenario, what you have to do is acquire a new drive, reinstall
Windows on it, then reinstall all your programs and restore you
backed-up data. Note carefully that what you can *not* do is restore
backed up programs. A backup of a program is useless, because all
programs (except for a rare tiny one) have many associated files and
references to themselves within Windows, in the registry and
elsewhere. If you reinstall Windows, all of that is lost, and the
programs won't run.

Since you say "I NOW HAVE ALL MY PROGRAMS ... ON DISCS," you
apparently weren't aware of this. Except as part of an image or clone
of the entire drive, backing up programs is a waste of time and
effort.

I AM NOT 100% SURE IF IT
IS STRAIGHT FORWARD ENOUGH FOR ME TO DO - IF I JUST HAVE TO COPY THEM BACK
THAT IS OK, I THINK.

For data, yes. For programs, no. See above.

FOR NOW I DO NOT REALLY WANT A "COPY" OF MY HARD DRIVES BECAUSE THEY ARE
VERY MESSED UP. I WILL WANT TO DO IT WHEN MY SYSTEM IS "CLEAN" AND WORKING
WELL THOUGH. FOR NOW I JUST WANT TO MAKE SURE I COPY ALL NECESSARY FILES - I
HAVE BEEN LOOKING BUT COULD NOT FIND A "LIST" OF FILES THAT ARE IMPERATIVE TO
HAVE TO ENABLE ME TO GET THE PC TO WORK AFTER FORMATING OR SYSTEM FAILURE.

You can't find it because it doesn't exist. To repeat what I said
above, what you would need to do is

1. Reinstall Windows.
2. Reinstall all your programs.
3. Copy your data files back to the drive.

Notice that in step 3, I said "data files." That's why such a list
doesn't exist. Nobody but you knows what data files you have.

JUST AS I THOUGHT. SO APART FROM FILES THAT I CREATE MYSELF (LETTERS,
PHOTOS, FAMILY MOVIES, BOOKKEEPING FILES) WHAT OTHER FILES DO I NEED TO COPY
SO I HAVE ALL ABSOLUTELY NECESSATY FILES TO BE USED ON SYSTEM FAILURE OR
HARD DRIVE FORMATTING/WINDOWS REINSTALL?

See above. You are misunderstanding the difference between the two
approaches to backup.

OK THEN. DO THEY NEED KEYS? I DON'T THINK I HAVE ANY OF THESE.

Do you mean software keys? Highly unlikely.

I APPRECIATE YOUR ANSWER ABOVE AND APPOLOGISE, I JUST NEED TO ESTABLISH
CLEARLY IN MY HEAD IF I HAVE WHAT I NEED IN CASE I NEED TO FORMAT.

See above. You need your Windows CD, installation CDs for all your
software, and backups of your data.

ALSO I
THOUGHT THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE FOUND SOME CLUE AS TO THE STATE OF MY SYSTEM FROM
THE INFO I POSTED LAST. UNFORTUNATELY THAT DID NOT PROVIDE ANYTHING
CONCRETE... SO FOR NOW I THINK I SHOULD CLEAN UP SOME OF THE MESSY FOLDERS
AND TRY TO DO A FRESH BACK UP, HOW DOES THIS REASONING COME ACROSS TO YOU?

Again, I can't make that decision for you, but based on what you've
said it sounds like it might likely be the best course.

FOR THE ABOVE: I WOULD DEFINITELY WOULD HAVE TO TREAD VERY CAREFULLY AND
WITH VERY GOOD AND CLEAR, COMPLETE STEP BY STEP INSTRUCTIONS IN WHAT RELATES
TO BIOS.

Except changing the boot order to enable you to boot from the CD, so
you can do a clean reinstallation, forget about the BIOS. It isn't
involved with this at all.

I HAVE NOT GONE IN THERE TO CHANGE ANYTHING, EVER. IF I NEED TO
CHANGE BOOT PRIORITIES I CAN PROBABLY DO IT WITH GOOD INSTRUTIONS. I HAVE MY
MOTHERBOARD INTRUSTION MANUAL AND DISC. I AM A BIT SCARED OF OPENING THE BOX
AND REMOVE AND REPLACE DRIVES IF THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE NECESSARY TO
DO. AGAIN I WOULD NEED STEP BY STEP INFO.

Opening the case should not be needed.

CUSTOMISING I DO NOT HAVE A LOT OF THINGS DONE BUT I AM CONFIDENT I CAN
BRING IT ALL BACK EASILY. I HAD TO DO THAT WHEN THE SECOND HARD DRIVE WAS PUT
IN.

FORMATING BASIC SHOULD BE OK BUT I WOULD HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT PARTITIONS OR
SIMILER THINGS. I HAVE NO PROBLEM INSTALLING PRINTER,CAMERA, PROGRAMS
I FORMATED MY EXTERNAL DRIVE FROM FAT32 TO NTFS BEFORE USING IT TO BACKUP
BUT IT WAS QUITE STRAIGHT FORWARD.
I DEFINITELY HAVE DIFFICULTIES WITH START UP CONFIGURATION. I KNOW I HAVE
TOO MANY PROCESS RUNNING THAT SHOULD NOT BE, BUT I AM READING UP ON IT.
I DO HAVE A LOT OF CLUTTER SUCH AS: LEFT OVER FILES FROM UNINSTALLED
PROGRAMS - 840 ENTRIES THAT DO NOT WORK IN THE REGISTRY, AND GOD KNOWS HOW
MUCH SPYWARE/MALAWARE GONE UNDETECTED THAT I DO NOT KNOW HOW TO FIND AND
CLEAN. IF FILES HAVE TO BE DELETED I AM NEVER SURE IF IT WILL AFFECT THE
SYSTEM AND OTHER PORGRAMS.

NOW FOR ANOTHER QUESTION TO HELP ME CLEAN UP A BIT: IS IT SAFE TO DELETE THE
FOLDERS I CREATED OF "COPY OF C" AND "COPY OF D"? WINDOWS WAS COPIED AS WELL.
IT RUNS IN MY EXTERNAL DRIVE IF I CHANGE THE BOOT.INI. I AM SCARED THAT IF I
DELETE THOSE FILES IT MIGHT DO SOMETHING WRONG TO THE ORIGINAL FILES IN THE
HARD DRIVES. AT ONE POINT MY EXTERNAL DRIVE SHOWED AS "MBR" IN DISK
MAHAGEMENT. PLEASE EXCUSE MY IGNORANCE BUT THIS IS VERY PUZZLING FOR ME. I
KNOW THEY ARE "COPIES" BUT I AM ASKING JUST IN CASE IT CAUSES ME MORE GRIEF.
PLEASE ADVISE

Since it appears that you will be reformatting and reinstalling,
there's no question of whether it's safe to delete anything on the
drive. When you reformat, *everything* gets deleted, so there's no
need to delete anything in advance.

To reformat and reinstall, just boot from the Windows XP CD (change
the BIOS boot order if necessary to accomplish this) and follow the
prompts for a clean installation (delete the existing partition by
pressing "D" when prompted, then create a new one).

You can find detailed instructions here:
http://michaelstevenstech.com/cleanxpinstall.html

or here
http://xphelpandsupport.mvps.org/how_do_i_install_windows_xp.htm

or here http://windowsxp.mvps.org/XPClean.htm

or here http://www.webtree.ca/windowsxp/clean_install.htm


One more point here, and it's an important one. Please don't feel
insulted, but it's very clear from the questions you ask, and some of
your misunderstandings that you are a beginner at this. I'm very
concerned that if you were to attempt this by yourself, you might not
succeed. It would be wise to enlist the help of a more knowledgeable
friend who could work along with you and show you what to do. It might
even be worth it to pay a professional (and by "professional," I do
*not* mean an employee of CompUSA, Best Buy, or some similar store.
Look for a local service person who comes recommended by other people
in your area, such as your local PC users' group).