Best Backup Program

Discussion in 'Windows XP Basics' started by David, May 11, 2010.

  1. David

    David Guest

    I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.

    My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.

    I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    external drive.

    I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    to a different external drive.

    I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.

    Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.

    Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    file if I choose.

    Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    fine.
     
    David, May 11, 2010
    #1
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  2. David

    Jim Guest

    On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:

    >
    >I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >
    >My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    >I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >external drive.
    >
    >I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    >to a different external drive.
    >
    >I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    >Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    >Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    >internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    >is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    >file if I choose.
    >
    >Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    >can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    >fine.


    Acronis True Image (£/$ )
    Macrium Reflect (£/$)
    Paragon (£/$)
    Macrium and Paragon also have free software .
     
    Jim, May 11, 2010
    #2
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  3. David

    Daave Guest

    David wrote:
    > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >
    > My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    > I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > external drive.
    >
    > I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    > to a different external drive.
    >
    > I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    > Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    > Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    > internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    > is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    > file if I choose.
    >
    > Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    > can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    > fine.


    If it weren't for your second paragraph, I would recommend Acronis True
    Image in a heartbeat. This program creates self-contained images of the
    hard drive (including incremental images) and can create bootable clones
    and can also back up just data ("individual directories/files").

    Actually, that program would still meet your needs. However, since you
    stated you are interested in a bootable clone (at least, that was the
    inference I drew), *and* if you want to be able to quickly create
    subesequent (i.e., incremental) clones, Casper would be better.

    Regarding individual directories/files, you would back them up to a
    different drive (i.e., not the bootable clone drive). XP Pro's native
    ntbackup program is fine for this if you back up to another hard drive.
    Actually, Acronis is fine, too. *And* it can create clones, which is a
    nice plus. What it can't do (and what Casper can) is create incremental
    clones (which translates to "fast").

    I think clones are better for those who cannot afford to wait the amount
    of time it takes to restore an image. Since how I use a PC (mostly
    casual use) doesn't require bootable clones, I am happy with Acronis.
    However, if I were working on time-critical tasks (e.g., day-trading!),
    I could see the value of a bootable clone.

    More info:

    http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/trueimage/

    http://www.fssdev.com/products/casper/smartclone.aspx

    Bootom line:

    If you must have an up-to-date bootable clone and if you want to create
    these in the fastest way possible, go for Casper. For the individual
    files/directories, use ntbackup.

    If you want to image your hard drive regularly (and quickly) and also
    want to back up data (and still have the option to create a bootable
    clone -- just without the ability to create quicker incremental bootable
    clones), go with Acronis.
     
    Daave, May 11, 2010
    #3
  4. On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:

    > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >
    > My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    > I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > external drive.



    What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    RAID1, which is very different from backup.

    But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.


    > I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    > to a different external drive.
    >
    > I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    > Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    > Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    > internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    > is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    > file if I choose.
    >
    > Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    > can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    > fine.



    Acronis True Image.


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
    Ken Blake, MVP, May 11, 2010
    #4
  5. David

    David Guest

    Ken:

    I do mean mirror, not copy.

    Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get the
    contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means that the
    contents are the same, but the location on the second drive may not be
    the same.

    Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are the
    contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive are the
    same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks which is
    essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a replacement boot
    drive in the event c: fails.

    I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation allows
    the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the manual
    correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the external USB
    hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in case c: fails.

    David

    On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >
    >> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >>
    >> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >>
    >> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >> external drive.

    >
    >
    >What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >
    >But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >
    >
    >> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    >> to a different external drive.
    >>
    >> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >>
    >> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >>
    >> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    >> internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    >> is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    >> file if I choose.
    >>
    >> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    >> can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    >> fine.

    >
    >
    >Acronis True Image.
     
    David, May 11, 2010
    #5
  6. David

    Big_Al Guest

    David said this on 5/11/2010 3:06 PM:
    > Ken:
    >
    > I do mean mirror, not copy.
    >
    > Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get the
    > contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means that the
    > contents are the same, but the location on the second drive may not be
    > the same.
    >
    > Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are the
    > contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive are the
    > same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks which is
    > essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a replacement boot
    > drive in the event c: fails.
    >
    > I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation allows
    > the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the manual
    > correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the external USB
    > hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in case c: fails.
    >
    > David
    >
    > On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >>
    >>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >>>
    >>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >>>
    >>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >>> external drive.

    >>
    >>
    >> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >>
    >> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    >>> to a different external drive.
    >>>
    >>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >>>
    >>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >>>
    >>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB& I have 150 GB
    >>> internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    >>> is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup& retrieve a
    >>> file if I choose.
    >>>
    >>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    >>> can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    >>> fine.

    >>
    >>
    >> Acronis True Image.


    I've used Acronis to image a drive and then apply that image to another
    drive. I guess in your terms this is copy. I then opened defrag to
    look at the layout, and the drive was 100% defragged. Swap and MFT and
    all. Really cool. So YES to your first comment about the location
    on the drive not being the same on a copy.

    I've never done a clone test to see how and what it does.
     
    Big_Al, May 11, 2010
    #6
  7. David

    ANONYMOUS Guest

    David wrote:
    > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >




    Norton Ghost 15 or Norton 360; highly recommended by professionals in
    the know.

    I don't take any advice from Microsoft Valuable Pigs or MVPs after their
    name as some form of microsoft tag to isolate them from ordinary pigs
    not eaten by jews and muslims.

    hth
     
    ANONYMOUS, May 11, 2010
    #7
  8. David wrote:
    > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    > available.
    >
    > My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    > I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > external drive.
    >
    > I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    > drive to a different external drive.
    >
    > I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    > Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    > Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    > GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    > that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    > retrieve a file if I choose.
    >
    > Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    > If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    > programs are fine.


    500GB Seagate Replica.

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Shenan Stanley, May 11, 2010
    #8
  9. David

    Daave Guest

    The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:

    http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm

    http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm

    This does not sound like what you were asking about.

    From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both, then
    you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.

    Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then restore
    that image to the same or a different hard drive and your new drive is
    *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes longer, but it still
    safeguards all your data and allows you the luxury of not having to
    reinstall the OS, updates, applications, etc.

    Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.


    David wrote:
    > Ken:
    >
    > I do mean mirror, not copy.
    >
    > Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get the
    > contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means that the
    > contents are the same, but the location on the second drive may not be
    > the same.
    >
    > Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are the
    > contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive are the
    > same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks which is
    > essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a replacement boot
    > drive in the event c: fails.
    >
    > I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation allows
    > the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the manual
    > correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the external USB
    > hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in case c: fails.
    >
    > David
    >
    > On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >>
    >>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    >>> available.
    >>>
    >>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >>>
    >>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >>> external drive.

    >>
    >>
    >> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >>
    >> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    >>> drive to a different external drive.
    >>>
    >>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >>>
    >>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >>>
    >>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    >>> GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    >>> that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    >>> retrieve a file if I choose.
    >>>
    >>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    >>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    >>> programs are fine.

    >>
    >>
    >> Acronis True Image.
     
    Daave, May 12, 2010
    #9
  10. On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:09 -0400, "Daave" <> wrote:

    > The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:



    I tried to tell him that, but since he just wanted to argue with me, I
    didn't bother replying to his second message, quoted below.




    > http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm
    >
    > http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm
    >
    > This does not sound like what you were asking about.
    >
    > From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    > external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    > motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both, then
    > you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.
    >
    > Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then restore
    > that image to the same or a different hard drive and your new drive is
    > *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes longer, but it still
    > safeguards all your data and allows you the luxury of not having to
    > reinstall the OS, updates, applications, etc.
    >
    > Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.
    >
    >
    > David wrote:
    > > Ken:
    > >
    > > I do mean mirror, not copy.
    > >
    > > Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get the
    > > contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means that the
    > > contents are the same, but the location on the second drive may not be
    > > the same.
    > >
    > > Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are the
    > > contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive are the
    > > same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks which is
    > > essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a replacement boot
    > > drive in the event c: fails.
    > >
    > > I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation allows
    > > the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the manual
    > > correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the external USB
    > > hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in case c: fails.
    > >
    > > David
    > >
    > > On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    > > <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    > >>> available.
    > >>>
    > >>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > >>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    > >>>
    > >>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > >>> external drive.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    > >> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    > >>
    > >> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    > >>> drive to a different external drive.
    > >>>
    > >>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    > >>>
    > >>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    > >>>
    > >>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    > >>> GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    > >>> that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    > >>> retrieve a file if I choose.
    > >>>
    > >>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    > >>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    > >>> programs are fine.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Acronis True Image.

    >


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
    Ken Blake, MVP, May 12, 2010
    #10
  11. David

    Daave Guest

    Yeah, I saw that.

    But I don't think he intended to be belligerent. I think he was confused
    and meant to say he was interested in not just copying data but having a
    perfect copy of the hard drive. To him, this (incorrectly) meant the
    word "mirror."

    We'll see what he really means if makes another reply. ;-)


    Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
    > On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:09 -0400, "Daave" <> wrote:
    >
    >> The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:

    >
    >
    > I tried to tell him that, but since he just wanted to argue with me, I
    > didn't bother replying to his second message, quoted below.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >> http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm
    >>
    >> http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm
    >>
    >> This does not sound like what you were asking about.
    >>
    >> From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    >> external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    >> motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both,
    >> then you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.
    >>
    >> Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then restore
    >> that image to the same or a different hard drive and your new drive
    >> is *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes longer, but it
    >> still safeguards all your data and allows you the luxury of not
    >> having to reinstall the OS, updates, applications, etc.
    >>
    >> Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.
    >>
    >>
    >> David wrote:
    >>> Ken:
    >>>
    >>> I do mean mirror, not copy.
    >>>
    >>> Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get
    >>> the contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means
    >>> that the contents are the same, but the location on the second
    >>> drive may not be the same.
    >>>
    >>> Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are
    >>> the contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive
    >>> are the same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks
    >>> which is essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a
    >>> replacement boot drive in the event c: fails.
    >>>
    >>> I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation
    >>> allows the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the
    >>> manual correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the
    >>> external USB hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in
    >>> case c: fails.
    >>>
    >>> David
    >>>
    >>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    >>>>> available.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >>>>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >>>>> external drive.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >>>> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >>>>
    >>>> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    >>>>> drive to a different external drive.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    >>>>> GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    >>>>> that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    >>>>> retrieve a file if I choose.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    >>>>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    >>>>> programs are fine.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Acronis True Image.
     
    Daave, May 12, 2010
    #11
  12. On Tue, 11 May 2010 20:21:11 -0400, "Daave" <> wrote:

    > Yeah, I saw that.
    >
    > But I don't think he intended to be belligerent. I think he was confused
    > and meant to say he was interested in not just copying data but having a
    > perfect copy of the hard drive. To him, this (incorrectly) meant the
    > word "mirror."
    >
    > We'll see what he really means if makes another reply. ;-)



    Glad to hear you say that, and I hope you're right and I was wrong.




    > Ken Blake, MVP wrote:
    > > On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:09 -0400, "Daave" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >> The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:

    > >
    > >
    > > I tried to tell him that, but since he just wanted to argue with me, I
    > > didn't bother replying to his second message, quoted below.
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > >> http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm
    > >>
    > >> http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm
    > >>
    > >> This does not sound like what you were asking about.
    > >>
    > >> From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    > >> external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    > >> motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both,
    > >> then you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.
    > >>
    > >> Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then restore
    > >> that image to the same or a different hard drive and your new drive
    > >> is *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes longer, but it
    > >> still safeguards all your data and allows you the luxury of not
    > >> having to reinstall the OS, updates, applications, etc.
    > >>
    > >> Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> David wrote:
    > >>> Ken:
    > >>>
    > >>> I do mean mirror, not copy.
    > >>>
    > >>> Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get
    > >>> the contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means
    > >>> that the contents are the same, but the location on the second
    > >>> drive may not be the same.
    > >>>
    > >>> Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are
    > >>> the contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive
    > >>> are the same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks
    > >>> which is essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a
    > >>> replacement boot drive in the event c: fails.
    > >>>
    > >>> I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation
    > >>> allows the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the
    > >>> manual correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the
    > >>> external USB hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in
    > >>> case c: fails.
    > >>>
    > >>> David
    > >>>
    > >>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    > >>> <> wrote:
    > >>>
    > >>>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    > >>>>
    > >>>>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    > >>>>> available.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > >>>>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > >>>>> external drive.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    > >>>> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    > >>>>
    > >>>> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    > >>>>> drive to a different external drive.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    > >>>>> GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    > >>>>> that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    > >>>>> retrieve a file if I choose.
    > >>>>>
    > >>>>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    > >>>>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    > >>>>> programs are fine.
    > >>>>
    > >>>>
    > >>>> Acronis True Image.

    >


    --
    Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP (Windows Desktop Experience) since 2003
    Please Reply to the Newsgroup
     
    Ken Blake, MVP, May 12, 2010
    #12
  13. David

    Andy Guest

    Norton Ghost properly set up :)


    --
    AL'S COMPUTERS
    <David> wrote in message news:...
    >I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >
    > My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    > I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > external drive.
    >
    > I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    > to a different external drive.
    >
    > I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    > Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    > Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    > internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    > is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    > file if I choose.
    >
    > Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    > can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    > fine.
    >
     
    Andy, May 12, 2010
    #13
  14. David

    Stan Brown Guest

    Tue, 11 May 2010 22:00:03 +0100 from ANONYMOUS
    <>:
    >
    > David wrote:
    > > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    > >

    >
    >
    >
    > Norton Ghost 15 or Norton 360; highly recommended by professionals in
    > the know.


    Translation: POSes that *no one* without an ax to grind would
    recommend.

    I'd go with Acronis True Image, but I bought my copy in 2005, which
    is about a century ago in computer years, so I don't know if the
    current version is still as good.

    --
    Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Tompkins County, New York, USA
    http://OakRoadSystems.com
    Shikata ga nai...
     
    Stan Brown, May 12, 2010
    #14
  15. David

    David Guest

    Ken:

    Perhaps you just wanted to argue with yourself. I don't know. In any
    case, I used the wrong term. Does a mistake like that constitute an
    arguement?

    The whole point that I tried to make is I want my external USB drive
    to boot Win/XP PRO in case the main hard drive fails. I had thought
    an image would require a second hard drive exactly the same. I am not
    sufficiently well versed to know. In any case my main hard drive is
    150GB and the USB drive is 1TB. The 150GB drive is listed in my
    paperwork as serial-ATA. The 1TB USB drive is an IOMEGA eGO desktop
    USB drive in its own case, type unknown.

    Perhaps we could reinitiate this conversation in a more amiable
    manner. I was hopeful you might have a solution to my real problem -
    making the USB drive XP/PRO bootable.



    On Tue, 11 May 2010 16:50:32 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    <> wrote:

    >On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:09 -0400, "Daave" <> wrote:
    >
    >> The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:

    >
    >
    >I tried to tell him that, but since he just wanted to argue with me, I
    >didn't bother replying to his second message, quoted below.
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >> http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm
    >>
    >> http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm
    >>
    >> This does not sound like what you were asking about.
    >>
    >> From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    >> external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    >> motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both, then
    >> you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.
    >>
    >> Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then restore
    >> that image to the same or a different hard drive and your new drive is
    >> *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes longer, but it still
    >> safeguards all your data and allows you the luxury of not having to
    >> reinstall the OS, updates, applications, etc.
    >>
    >> Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.
    >>
    >>
    >> David wrote:
    >> > Ken:
    >> >
    >> > I do mean mirror, not copy.
    >> >
    >> > Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get the
    >> > contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means that the
    >> > contents are the same, but the location on the second drive may not be
    >> > the same.
    >> >
    >> > Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are the
    >> > contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive are the
    >> > same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks which is
    >> > essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a replacement boot
    >> > drive in the event c: fails.
    >> >
    >> > I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation allows
    >> > the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the manual
    >> > correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the external USB
    >> > hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive in case c: fails.
    >> >
    >> > David
    >> >
    >> > On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    >> > <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >> >>
    >> >>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    >> >>> available.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    >> >>> upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >> >>> external drive.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >> >> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >> >>
    >> >> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    >> >>> drive to a different external drive.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150
    >> >>> GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup -
    >> >>> that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup &
    >> >>> retrieve a file if I choose.
    >> >>>
    >> >>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    >> >>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    >> >>> programs are fine.
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> Acronis True Image.

    >>
     
    David, May 12, 2010
    #15
  16. "Stan Brown" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > ...
    > I'd go with Acronis True Image, but I bought my copy in 2005, which
    > is about a century ago in computer years, so I don't know if the
    > current version is still as good.
    > ...


    I continue to use TI, but am careful about new versions.
    Acronis tends IMHO to let loose beta versions loose on
    the public for them to find the last few bugs, which can
    be risky for the one program you have to be able to
    rely on in a disaster. I wouldn't do anything irrevocable
    to my system until after I'd created an image, verified it,
    and made a recovery, which is a time-consuming
    checkout. I'm currently using version 9, build 2337,
    and have made a successful recovery during the last
    12 months. "A century ago" indeed, but a byte is a byte
    regardless of the versions of everything else on my
    machine, and I continue to rely on that build.
     
    Anthony Buckland, May 12, 2010
    #16
  17. David

    Milt Guest

    David,

    I'm sure that many of the imaging programs are fine. I have been using
    Norton Ghost for about fifteen years, as best as I can remember. I make
    monthly new images and daily incremental backups.

    It has worked the eight or ten times I've used it to restore a corrupted or
    damaged HD. I'm now using Ghost 9 on two machines and Ghost 10 on another. I
    back up the images to a second HD, and then copy them to a 16 gig. thumb
    drive for off site storage.

    Milt



    "David" wrote:

    > I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program available.
    >
    > My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may eventually
    > upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a plus.
    >
    > I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    > external drive.
    >
    > I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external drive
    > to a different external drive.
    >
    > I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >
    > Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a plus.
    >
    > Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have 150 GB
    > internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla backup - that
    > is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the backup & retrieve a
    > file if I choose.
    >
    > Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost. If I
    > can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple programs are
    > fine.
    >
    > .
    >
     
    Milt, May 12, 2010
    #17
  18. David wrote:
    > Perhaps we could reinitiate this conversation in a more amiable
    > manner. I was hopeful you might have a solution to my real problem
    > - making the USB drive XP/PRO bootable.


    In general - Windows XP will not boot from an USB drive.

    If you _cloned_ your disk to it (with your favorite imaging program), took
    it out of the USB case, put it in the machine - it probably would work just
    fine - boot and be happy after a few tweaks in the BIOS and *maybe* one to
    the drive itself.

    BartPE and its children-projects will boot from USB/CD/DVD - but you
    wouldn't be making an image of what you have to to that - not the way it
    works and it would be quite limited in functionality in comparison to what
    you want.

    With any imaging application worth its salt - the size of the cloned-to disk
    is only a concern if it is smaller than the data on the original source
    disk. Usually a good cloning application would give you the choice of
    taking up just what you need *or* the rest of the disk you are cloning to
    (or something in-between.)

    I believe your best bet would be one of two things:

    1) Imaging the disk to an external file(set of files actually) for
    restoration at a later time. This way you can keep your external drive
    formatted as is/use it for other things, etc. This could just be a
    directory on the external disk. The disadvantage is that to really get a
    good solid image with most applications of the entire disk - you should
    likely boot to something other than what you are taking the image of for
    speed and 'files in use' reasons. That means having a BartPE or UBCD for
    Windows CD, boot from it, mount your external drive, start up your imaging
    application, make your image, boot back to the internal hard drive.
    Advantage - the process to restore it back to that point in time is the same
    in reverse - apply the image to the disk (or any disk you put in that
    machine.) Also - you could have several different images representing
    different points in time - as long as you have space on the drive.

    2) Just get a drive exclusively for backup - the Seagate Replica is a good
    example. It can back up all your files/folders, keep 'versions' of files
    you change often so you can go back to yesterdays, the day before, etc and
    can do a bare metal restore if needed. (Everything crashed - you need to
    start over.) Not ot mention if you get the 500GB version - you could use it
    on multiple machines to work its full magic.

    --
    Shenan Stanley
    MS-MVP
    --
    How To Ask Questions The Smart Way
    http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html
     
    Shenan Stanley, May 12, 2010
    #18
  19. David

    Daave Guest

    It looks like you missed Ken's other post where he said:

    "Glad to hear you say that, and I hope you're right and I was wrong."

    You seem to be confusing the terms image and clone.

    An image is one gigantic archive file (or it can be a series of such
    files) that contains the "essence" of the totality of what is on the
    hard drive. You can store this archive anywhere you'd like: on an
    external drive (but it would be non-bootable *in that state*) or on a
    DVD (or several DVDs, depending on the size of the archive -- even with
    compression, images can be quite large!)

    You can use the same software that created the image to restore it back
    to the same hard drive (or another hard drive in its place, say if the
    first drive physically dies). Once the image is restored, the result is
    a hard drive effectively identical to how it was when the image of it
    was made. Therefore, it would be bootable.

    If for some reason, you desire to make an exact copy of the hard drive
    directly to another hard drive, this would be a clone. If this other
    hard drive is in an external enclosure, unless it is eSATA, you would
    need to remove it and place it in the correct slot in your desktop tower
    (probably where the original one was). This drive would also be
    bootable. It's like an identical twin.

    Note that if you restore an image to a bare metal drive, the result is
    the same: something that is effectively an identical twin.

    Cloning is preferable if you do not want to take extra time to restore
    the image. You can configure your motherboard's BIOS to boot off an
    eSATA clone, even if it is not in the tower. With eSATA, the PC doesn't
    distinguish between internal or external drives.

    If you clone your drive to a drive that is in an external USB enclosure,
    it will only boot if you physically remove it from the enclosure and
    place it inside the tower. It will not boot from the external enclosure
    if there is no eSATA connection (despite what WaIIy stated).


    David wrote:
    > Ken:
    >
    > Perhaps you just wanted to argue with yourself. I don't know. In any
    > case, I used the wrong term. Does a mistake like that constitute an
    > arguement?
    >
    > The whole point that I tried to make is I want my external USB drive
    > to boot Win/XP PRO in case the main hard drive fails. I had thought
    > an image would require a second hard drive exactly the same. I am not
    > sufficiently well versed to know. In any case my main hard drive is
    > 150GB and the USB drive is 1TB. The 150GB drive is listed in my
    > paperwork as serial-ATA. The 1TB USB drive is an IOMEGA eGO desktop
    > USB drive in its own case, type unknown.
    >
    > Perhaps we could reinitiate this conversation in a more amiable
    > manner. I was hopeful you might have a solution to my real problem -
    > making the USB drive XP/PRO bootable.
    >
    >
    >
    > On Tue, 11 May 2010 16:50:32 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Tue, 11 May 2010 19:31:09 -0400, "Daave" <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> The term "mirror" is used for RAID technology:

    >>
    >>
    >> I tried to tell him that, but since he just wanted to argue with me,
    >> I didn't bother replying to his second message, quoted below.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>> http://www.bestpricecomputers.co.uk/glossary/raid-1.htm
    >>>
    >>> http://www.recoverdata.com/raidfaq.htm
    >>>
    >>> This does not sound like what you were asking about.
    >>>
    >>> From your description below, you are referring to cloning. Is your
    >>> external hard drive specifically an eSATA hard drive? Does your
    >>> motherboard support eSATA hard drives. If you answer yes to both,
    >>> then you can use a cloning program to accomplish what you want.
    >>>
    >>> Also know you can create an image of your hard drive and then
    >>> restore that image to the same or a different hard drive and your
    >>> new drive is *effectively* a clone of the original. It takes
    >>> longer, but it still safeguards all your data and allows you the
    >>> luxury of not having to reinstall the OS, updates, applications,
    >>> etc.
    >>>
    >>> Or you can choose to clone directly. Your choice.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> David wrote:
    >>>> Ken:
    >>>>
    >>>> I do mean mirror, not copy.
    >>>>
    >>>> Unless I am mistaken, when you copy one drive to another, you get
    >>>> the contents of the first drive copied to the second. This means
    >>>> that the contents are the same, but the location on the second
    >>>> drive may not be the same.
    >>>>
    >>>> Mirroring a drive (at least to me) means just that. Not only are
    >>>> the contents copied, but the exact locations on the second drive
    >>>> are the same. Mirroring, I believe, also copies the boot tracks
    >>>> which is essential if the mirrored drive is to be used as a
    >>>> replacement boot drive in the event c: fails.
    >>>>
    >>>> I have an external USB hard drive. the bios on my workstation
    >>>> allows the external USB drive to be bootable (assuming I read the
    >>>> manual correctly). I want the c: drive to be mirrored to the
    >>>> external USB hard drive so I have a functional backup hard drive
    >>>> in case c: fails.
    >>>>
    >>>> David
    >>>>
    >>>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 08:04:26 -0700, "Ken Blake, MVP"
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Tue, 11 May 2010 05:18:18 -0400, David wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I am looking for recommendations on the best backup program
    >>>>>> available.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> My workstation is currently running XP PRO/SP3, but may
    >>>>>> eventually upgrade to Windows 7, so compatability with both is a
    >>>>>> plus.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I would like the ability to mirror my main c: drive to a bootable
    >>>>>> external drive.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> What do you mean by "mirror." That term is normally used just for
    >>>>> RAID1, which is very different from backup.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> But if you just mean something like "copy," no problem.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> I would like to be able to backup an entire internal or external
    >>>>>> drive to a different external drive.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> I do not plan on backing up to DvDs or optical disk.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Being able to backup individual directories/files would be a
    >>>>>> plus.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Compression is unimportant. My external drive is 1TB & I have
    >>>>>> 150 GB internal capacity. I'd prefer to have a plain vanilla
    >>>>>> backup - that is I'd be able to use Windows Explorer to view the
    >>>>>> backup & retrieve a file if I choose.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> Quality, reliability, and ease of use take precedence over cost.
    >>>>>> If I can not accomplish what I want with one program, multiple
    >>>>>> programs are fine.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Acronis True Image.
     
    Daave, May 13, 2010
    #19
  20. David

    Steve Hayes Guest

    On Wed, 12 May 2010 16:28:32 -0400, David wrote:

    >The whole point that I tried to make is I want my external USB drive
    >to boot Win/XP PRO in case the main hard drive fails. I had thought
    >an image would require a second hard drive exactly the same. I am not
    >sufficiently well versed to know. In any case my main hard drive is
    >150GB and the USB drive is 1TB. The 150GB drive is listed in my
    >paperwork as serial-ATA. The 1TB USB drive is an IOMEGA eGO desktop
    >USB drive in its own case, type unknown.
    >
    >Perhaps we could reinitiate this conversation in a more amiable
    >manner. I was hopeful you might have a solution to my real problem -
    >making the USB drive XP/PRO bootable.


    I don't know if it is possible to make the external USB drive bootable, but I
    made Acronis images of my laptop hard drive, and it also lets you make a
    bootable CD rescue disc, which has the Acronis restore program on it.

    When my laptop locked up because of a faulty antivirus program and i couldn't
    get to the system restore point, I used the rescue disc and restored from the
    image on the USB drive, and everything worked again.

    It's one more step than booting from the USB drive, but it's not an onerous
    one.


    --
    Steve Hayes from Tshwane, South Africa
    Web: http://hayesfam.bravehost.com/stevesig.htm
    Blog: http://methodius.blogspot.com
    E-mail - see web page, or parse: shayes at dunelm full stop org full stop uk
     
    Steve Hayes, May 13, 2010
    #20
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