address of mft

B

Bill Cunningham

Does anyone happen to know the address where the MFT begins on a ntfs? I
know mine is 125mg and how many entries it contains. And it doesn't seemed
to be fragmented at all.I would like to know the starting address of the mft
to defrag it. I sure don't want to zero it out or it wouldn't work. Unless
the mirror took over.

Anyway I want to defrag my registry files, pagefile.sys and what isn't
defragged. I believe There's a lot of hive files on XP. How do you set up to
defrag those. They would have to not be in memory right?

Bill
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Anyway I want to defrag my registry files, pagefile.sys and what isn't
defragged.


Unnecessary. There's really no benefit to doing that since access to
them is random. And pagefile.sys gets recreated all the time.
 
B

Bill Cunningham

Unnecessary. There's really no benefit to doing that since access to
them is random. And pagefile.sys gets recreated all the time.

pagefile.sys is recreated all the time? I thought it was being at the
beginning of the drive were a memory pagefile was most effective. It is
moved then?

Bill
 
P

Paul

Bill said:
pagefile.sys is recreated all the time? I thought it was being at the
beginning of the drive were a memory pagefile was most effective. It is
moved then?

Bill

If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.

http://i57.tinypic.com/2060jd4.gif

You can "see" my pagefile and hiberfile here. All nice
and neat, up near the front of the partition.

http://i58.tinypic.com/311qus2.gif

Paul
 
B

Bill Cunningham

If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill
 
P

Paul in Houston TX

Bill said:
If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill

Size of, or data within, Pagefile is constantly changing.
You will have to defrag it every few seconds.
Watch Task Manager and see.
Size and data within registry varies with updates to programs, o/s, etc.
 
K

Ken Blake, MVP

Bill said:
If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill

Size of, or data within, Pagefile is constantly changing.


I perhaps didn't say it well when I said "pagefile.sys gets recreated
all the time," but that's what I meant.

You will have to defrag it every few seconds.


Yes, so defragging it is useless, as I said.
 
P

Paul in Houston TX

Bill said:
If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill
Size of, or data within, Pagefile is constantly changing.

I perhaps didn't say it well when I said "pagefile.sys gets recreated
all the time," but that's what I meant.
You will have to defrag it every few seconds.

Yes, so defragging it is useless, as I said.

Yup.
 
P

Paul

Bill said:
If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill
Size of, or data within, Pagefile is constantly changing.


I perhaps didn't say it well when I said "pagefile.sys gets recreated
all the time," but that's what I meant.

You will have to defrag it every few seconds.


Yes, so defragging it is useless, as I said.

The Windows Defragmenter report is capable of reporting
whether the pagefile is in more than one segment or not.

Pagefile fragmentation
Pagefile size = 2.00GB
Total fragments = 1

And mine has read out that way, constantly. It never
fragments (because I don't allow Windows to manage the
size, and the size is fixed). The pagefile stays at
the same starting LBA, and it is never fragmented.
It is one continuous 2GB set of LBAs.

*******

The pagefile is used in 4K chunks. And has a management
scheme, to allocate space, keep track of what is used.
Keep track of what remains free or was recently freed up.

A typical situation, when a program is exited in WinXP, is
paged out portions of the program, they can now be released.
This causes what look like fairly random areas of the pagefile
to be visited. Giving the impression of "fragmentation". But it's
the kind of fragmentation you get in a memory allocator (malloc),
where allocated pages are freed in a relatively random
fashion, leading to inefficient head movement on regular
hard drives used for paging duty.

I've seen 30 second to one minute delays, as the "pagefile"
and paged out stuff, unwind. (This is an observation for WinXP,
the topic of this newsgroup.) And the duration is not due to
the quantity of stuff being handled - it's the random head
movement for the hard drive to visit all those locations.
An SSD handles this pattern with ease, as seek time is 20us to
100us, instead of 10 milliseconds for the hard drive head
assembly. Similarly, if you've installed a RAMDisk that
doesn't use OS-managed memory, that unwinding of the pagefile
is quick and buttery smooth. Only mechanical hard drives make
that look like sheer hell.

After the next reboot, the control of the pagefile is
starting over again, and the unwinding process will be
relatively quick for small allocations.

Later OSes do this a bit better. If you need a way to
torture a later OS, try the 64 bit version of CHKDSK,
and do a CHKDSK on a partition with a lot of files.
Then watch Task Manager and the memory usage display.

Paul
 
J

JJ

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill

If you allow Windows to manage its size, there's no point defragging it now
beause it would become fragmented again later. I would suggest setting at
least the minimum size of the page file then defrag it so that the required
part of the file will stay unfragmented.

To defrag it, you'll need a third party disk defragmenter that can defrag
the page file. If you use linux to defrag it, you don't need to rename the
page file name.
 
J

JJ

Does anyone happen to know the address where the MFT begins on a ntfs? I
know mine is 125mg and how many entries it contains. And it doesn't seemed
to be fragmented at all.I would like to know the starting address of the mft
to defrag it. I sure don't want to zero it out or it wouldn't work. Unless
the mirror took over.

The MFT location varies depending of the volume size. Around 12% of the
volume size.
 
J

JJ

Size of, or data within, Pagefile is constantly changing.
You will have to defrag it every few seconds.
Watch Task Manager and see.
Size and data within registry varies with updates to programs, o/s, etc.

Actually, the page file size can only grow. It won't shrink until the next
reboot.
 
B

Bill Cunningham

The MFT location varies depending of the volume size. Around 12% of the
volume size.

Yes that's the min allocated size IIRC. There are registry hacks that
will keep it at that sizw or one of the higher sizes. I have a sysinternals
utility called ntfsinfo that tells a little. But not a starting address. I
do believe though Its' size is reported. Just as in XP's regular
defragmenter log file.
Bill
 
D

Dave Doe

If you do not allow Windows to manage it, and fix the
size, it'll stay put. It's not a given that it
has to move, or that it has to fragment.

I don't think my pagefile has been fragmented in the
last five years.
[snap]

I don't believe I have the size set but if I wanted to defrag it. I would
rename it. Reboot and defrag it. Then go back to linux and erase the new
pagefile.sys and rename the old pagefile to "pagefile.sys" That's one way to
defragment it. It shouldn't need done again.

Bill

Or you could use PuranDefrag's boot-time defrag. I like to run
PuranDefrag's "Restart-Defrag-Restart + Full Disk Check" about once a
year.

http://www.puransoftware.com/Puran-Defrag.html
 
B

Bill Cunningham

Or you could use PuranDefrag's boot-time defrag. I like to run
PuranDefrag's "Restart-Defrag-Restart + Full Disk Check" about once a
year.

http://www.puransoftware.com/Puran-Defrag.html

Thanks alot for that little utility. It seems to work fine so far. I
defragged the registry with it. So it does frag, but not by much. Now I
remember with win98 I also used to compress the registry files. Of course
there were only two then. Can this utility do this? Or is there a way by
hand or other means to do that?

Bill
 
D

Dave Doe

Just to mention as a side note here. I tried the data disk recovery
option. Once I got 8 files were partially copied. Then tried again and got
that 1 file was partially copied. From what I know to be a damaged disk.
Isn't this supposed to recover files? Do you know of a utility that does?

Bill

Bit more advanced - but what I use for data recovery is:
* photorec (gets many file types off disks)
and
* testdisk (repair OS structures, image a disk - bit more advanced - I'd
start with photorec).

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Main_Page

If Vista/Win7 or above, you *must* run these command line utilities at
an elevated (admin priviledge) command prompt.
I also highly recommend you run on a disk that not the boot disk - ie
remove and put on another computer. You *have* to do this really.

(I've never used any other utilities from PuranSofware other than their
excellent defrag util, sorry).
 
B

Bill Cunningham

Bit more advanced - but what I use for data recovery is:
* photorec (gets many file types off disks)
and
* testdisk (repair OS structures, image a disk - bit more advanced - I'd
start with photorec).

http://www.cgsecurity.org/wiki/Main_Page

If Vista/Win7 or above, you *must* run these command line utilities at
an elevated (admin priviledge) command prompt.
I also highly recommend you run on a disk that not the boot disk - ie
remove and put on another computer. You *have* to do this really.

(I've never used any other utilities from PuranSofware other than their
excellent defrag util, sorry).

Well I have 4-5 old CDRs and only one copies all the files. The rest are
partials. I see some pretty good scratches on the CDs too. So photorec would
be good for that?

Bill
 

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