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What will you be replacing your CRT monitor with?

 
 
Igor
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      5th Nov 2007
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 09:12:44 -0600, chrisv <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>Igor wrote:
>
>>That's true, unfortunately. I need a new monitor, and when I started
>>shopping for one, I had taken it for granted that I would be getting
>>another LCD. When I was looking at monitors in a big box store, I
>>noticed a lone CRT sitting in a corner and went up to examine it. I
>>was blown away by the image quality, compared to all the latest and
>>greatest LCD monitors I had been looking at (and this was a cheap,
>>off-brand CRT). I had gotten accustomed to the "grainy" appearence of
>>LCD monitors and had completely forgotten how good photos look on a
>>CRT.

>
>I have to ask, are you sure the LCD was running at it's native
>resolution, like they really must be?


Yes, I made absolutely sure of that. In fact, some of the sales guys
were becoming visibly annoyed with me playing with the video settings
on the master computers.

The reason I don't think the "grainy" appearance (perhaps "pixely" or
"granulely" would be a better word) is an issue unique to store
displays is because I noticed the same thing years ago when I bought
the LCD monitor I'm using now. At the time, I excused it, thinking LCD
production was still in its early stages and that the image quality
would improve over time. Well, it's been several years, and that
aspect of it hasn't improved at all. In fact, the larger LCD monitors
get, the more I notice it.

Another recent revelatory experience was when I hooked up a relative's
digital camcorder to a CRT televison. This camcorder was a newer model
(a Sony) that was purchased in the last six months. The video as seen
on the camcorder's LCD viewer was, like all the LCDs I've seen, pixely
and overly bright, while the image on the TV was smooth and the colors
much more natural.
--
"Those of us whose brains did not die in college are
actually stunned by just how stupid academic ideas
are." -- Robert W. Whitaker, http://readbob.com/
 
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Arny Krueger
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      5th Nov 2007

"Bob Myers" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:fgno0r$7op$(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> "P.C. Ford" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> LCD technology is actually pretty primitive. I went to an eye-opening
>> demonstation at Dolby/Brightside in Vancouver, BC. Look is up on
>> Google. In short, they extend the luminance of the signal, which is
>> severely restricted in LCDs. The results are absolutely dazzling.

>
> More accurately, the Dolby/Brightside technology extends
> the dynamic range (contrast) of the LCD display, through
> a combination of modulating the backlight intensity across the
> area of the backlight (this trick only works with direct-lit
> LED backlighting) along with corresponding modifications to
> the image data. The results are very impressive, but most
> color-critical pros I've talked to aren't all that interested in any
> method that mucks around with their data, unless they're VERY
> clear on exactly how that data is being changed and can turn
> any such feature off and see their image "as is".


The irony is that their old displays are mucking around with their image,
and they probably know very little about how it is being changed, and they
can 't do anything about it.


 
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Igor
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      5th Nov 2007
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:27:32 GMT, Marklaine <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:29:21 -0800, "Eric Gisin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>"Marklaine" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>> All patents (right to ownership) are also applicable to eminent domain laws.
>>> They can take away your house and land if it is to the benefit of society to
>>> build something better. They can also use eminent domain laws to use worthwhile
>>> patents in any way that might better civilization. I'm still waiting for the
>>> photovoltaic roofing material that cost 10-cents a square foot, first published
>>> in OMNI magazine back in 1984(?). The patent once held by the inventor in
>>> Australia, quickly bought up and buried by an oil-company. You'll be lucky if
>>> you can even find mention of it anywhere today.. That one alone should have had
>>> eminent domain applied to it 20 years ago. Though it would be difficult to
>>> convince a politician, who was bought and paid for by an oil-company, into
>>> pursuing it.
>>>

>>No mention of it because it's a paranoid schizo conspiracy, just like cars running on water.

>
>
>On the contrary. Go back and look through OMNI issues from 1984(3?) to 1985, I
>know it was in one of those years. It's been over 15 years since I followed the
>dead-end and don't recall the issue nor the patent-holder's name. I just recall
>that there went another good idea into the vaults of the wealthy. I went back
>and looked it up when I never saw that patent come to fruition when, around
>1990, I remember having read about it. I then researched the patent-holder's
>name on the web in the early 1990's, obtained from that OMNI article. The patent
>holder clearly sold his patent to some oil company in 1986(7?) with no further
>information found on it anywhere. That's where it ended.
>


It'd be interesting if, time permitting, you were to write an article
about it, making sure to cite all your sources.
--
"Those of us whose brains did not die in college are
actually stunned by just how stupid academic ideas
are." -- Robert W. Whitaker, http://readbob.com/
 
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Bob Myers
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      5th Nov 2007

"Arny Krueger" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> More accurately, the Dolby/Brightside technology extends
>> the dynamic range (contrast) of the LCD display, through
>> a combination of modulating the backlight intensity across the
>> area of the backlight (this trick only works with direct-lit
>> LED backlighting) along with corresponding modifications to
>> the image data. The results are very impressive, but most
>> color-critical pros I've talked to aren't all that interested in any
>> method that mucks around with their data, unless they're VERY
>> clear on exactly how that data is being changed and can turn
>> any such feature off and see their image "as is".

>
> The irony is that their old displays are mucking around with their image,
> and they probably know very little about how it is being changed, and they
> can 't do anything about it.


Oh, no - these customers know VERY precisely what the
display does to their image.

Bob M.


 
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Not Gimpy Anymore
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      5th Nov 2007

"Marklaine" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> Not interesting at all. I pretty much don't care who is or ever was
> president. I
> don't acknowledge any authority figures on earth, self-appointed nor
> majority
> appointed. They've all been total jerks and assholes, just like every
> politician
> that ever lived. Representatives of the most lost and foolish among us. I
> have
> about as much interest in government as a buddhist has in the
> middle-east's
> imaginary jesus. I have no interest in politics nor religion. I don't
> waste my
> life on sects of society that are nothing but manipulation artists and
> psychotics.
>
> Or aren't you aware that leaders are created by the loudest, most lost,
> most
> frightened, and most insecure of any society? They need a leader because
> they're
> too stupid to run their own lives without a daddy or mommy figure. The
> adult
> infants among us. Their elected leader voices the opinions of the
> most-stupid or
> they can't be their leader. That's hardly anyone worth paying attention
> to,
> ever. Any elected leader is nothing but a King of Fools.
>
> --
>
> "Authority isn't something that someone else has. It is something that you
> have
> freely, foolishly, and irresponsibly given away. All by your little self."
>
> "There are none so lost -- as those who follow."
>
> ~caMel~


So, you essentially relegated yourself to being a mud breather who
occasionally
emits the equivalent of a methane bubble?
News Flash - This isn't a "change the world" type of forum.....

Nor is pompous spontaneous emission paid much heed....

<plonk>


 
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Igor
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      5th Nov 2007
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 02:45:35 GMT, Marklaine <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sun, 04 Nov 2007 20:57:47 -0500, Raphael Bustin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:27:32 GMT, Marklaine <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>The range of years just to be sure it's in one of those, I know that the article
>>>was published in OMNI magazine the early mid-1980's. It *could* have been as
>>>late as 1987 or as early as 1982, but I don't think it was. It's been so long
>>>ago since I read it and researched it that my memory is getting vague. I just
>>>know it exists, as sure as I know that Jimmy Carter was president at one time, I
>>>just don't recall at the moment which years he was president.

>>
>>
>>Jan. '77 to Jan '81. Preceded by Gerald Ford, succeeded by Ronald
>>Reagan. Interesting that you can't recall that.... ???
>>
>>

>
>Not interesting at all. I pretty much don't care who is or ever was president. I
>don't acknowledge any authority figures on earth, self-appointed nor majority
>appointed. They've all been total jerks and assholes, just like every politician
>that ever lived. Representatives of the most lost and foolish among us. I have
>about as much interest in government as a buddhist has in the middle-east's
>imaginary jesus. I have no interest in politics nor religion. I don't waste my
>life on sects of society that are nothing but manipulation artists and
>psychotics.
>
>Or aren't you aware that leaders are created by the loudest, most lost, most
>frightened, and most insecure of any society? They need a leader because they're
>too stupid to run their own lives without a daddy or mommy figure. The adult
>infants among us. Their elected leader voices the opinions of the most-stupid or
>they can't be their leader. That's hardly anyone worth paying attention to,
>ever. Any elected leader is nothing but a King of Fools.


This going pretty far off topic, but I disagree with you. Society
needs leaders. It just wouldn't function otherwise.

Unfortunately, society is no longer producing the men of character
that are necessary for truly effective leadership.
--
"Those of us whose brains did not die in college are
actually stunned by just how stupid academic ideas
are." -- Robert W. Whitaker, http://readbob.com/
 
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Marklaine
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      5th Nov 2007
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:18:49 -0500, Igor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 01:27:32 GMT, Marklaine <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 4 Nov 2007 09:29:21 -0800, "Eric Gisin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>"Marklaine" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>>>news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>>
>>>> All patents (right to ownership) are also applicable to eminent domain laws.
>>>> They can take away your house and land if it is to the benefit of society to
>>>> build something better. They can also use eminent domain laws to use worthwhile
>>>> patents in any way that might better civilization. I'm still waiting for the
>>>> photovoltaic roofing material that cost 10-cents a square foot, first published
>>>> in OMNI magazine back in 1984(?). The patent once held by the inventor in
>>>> Australia, quickly bought up and buried by an oil-company. You'll be lucky if
>>>> you can even find mention of it anywhere today.. That one alone should have had
>>>> eminent domain applied to it 20 years ago. Though it would be difficult to
>>>> convince a politician, who was bought and paid for by an oil-company, into
>>>> pursuing it.
>>>>
>>>No mention of it because it's a paranoid schizo conspiracy, just like cars running on water.

>>
>>
>>On the contrary. Go back and look through OMNI issues from 1984(3?) to 1985, I
>>know it was in one of those years. It's been over 15 years since I followed the
>>dead-end and don't recall the issue nor the patent-holder's name. I just recall
>>that there went another good idea into the vaults of the wealthy. I went back
>>and looked it up when I never saw that patent come to fruition when, around
>>1990, I remember having read about it. I then researched the patent-holder's
>>name on the web in the early 1990's, obtained from that OMNI article. The patent
>>holder clearly sold his patent to some oil company in 1986(7?) with no further
>>information found on it anywhere. That's where it ended.
>>

>
>It'd be interesting if, time permitting, you were to write an article
>about it, making sure to cite all your sources.


Yes, it sounds like a great project for some student that might get a grade from
it, or from someone that might get paid for doing it all again. It only took me
about a week to narrow it down as much as I did by hunting the net through every
Archie, Veronica, and Jughead search available at the time. I cited all the
sources I know from memory already. You have as much info as I'd need to
recreate that search. I'd be working off of exactly what I already wrote. And
I'd find it again. But it would take going into storage two towns away,
unpacking 150 boxes (the heavy ones at the bottom of everything), partially
labeled as "library box #nnn", going through 2-6 years of magazines
meticulously, then once the article was found again searching down the name of
the originator on the net yet again, leading me to the same report of some rep
that worked for an oil company having paid for the rights to the patent.

I had my fun tracing down that dead and disappointing end long ago. Now its
someone else's turn. May they find just as much entertainment and reward in the
project as I had. Nay, even more. They surely couldn't obtain less.

 
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Marklaine
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      6th Nov 2007
On Mon, 05 Nov 2007 14:40:20 -0500, Igor <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
>Unfortunately, society is no longer producing the men of character
>that are necessary for truly effective leadership.


Excerpt from "Forest for the Trees"

Where are those men who spoke great words?
Wisdoms from solitude sighing.
None can be found, they won't be born,
The source of the wisdom is dying.


But I disagree about the need for leaders, ever. If each and every person was
brought up to lead themselves in respectable and responsible manner for all
around there'd be no need for mommy & daddy figureheads of those now grown but
still emotionally and mentally immature adults. All humans should be given a
"right to reproduce" test to qualify for a license to do so. I easily predict
that over 99% of humanity would fail it. Every time I see any person who can't
conduct themselves in a respectable manner for all others concerned then I see
some great-great-great-grandparents that should have been sterilized.
 
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=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=
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      6th Nov 2007
Bob Myers wrote:

>> Really, LCDs are being forced upon the public. LCDs are cheaper to
>> manufacture and easier to handle, have less longevity for quicker
>> replacement, and have less of an environmental impact for recycling.
>> CRTs are almost a nightmare to get rid of since most landfill have
>> considered them hazardous waste and banned them.

>
> The "less environmental impact" statement is correct; however,
> LCDs are neither cheaper to manufacture than comparable-sized
> CRTs, nor do they have lower longevity.


Wrong! The average life expectancy of an LCD monitor is 3-years before one
has to have the power supply, ballast, backlight (if replaceable) replaced.

>> Yep, and as good as the best LCD is they still have the fluorescent
>> backlight color corrected it is still fluorescent light and the light
>> spectrum can be "spikey" as one of our resident geniuses has pointed
>> out a while back.

>
> And this matters - how, exactly? What counts is where the
> primaries and white point wind up, and that HAS been a problem
> for LCDs, to be sure.


Don't know about the "spikey" nonsense, as this is a term thrown around by
one of our resident idiots. I'll say that even the best fluorescent
lighting has problems that change with ambient temperature and can't be
corrected with the built in filters.







Rita

 
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=?iso-8859-1?Q?Rita_=C4_Berkowitz?=
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      6th Nov 2007
Igor wrote:

>> YOu need to see a properly calibrated LCD. They're not grainy at
>> all, and color accuracy is exceptional. Don't buy into Rita's BS,
>> make your own judgement, but don't judge based on what you see in a
>> store display.
>>

>
> Perhaps I'm going out on a limb here, since I haven't seen any
> high-end or "properly calibrated" models, but I'm strongly inclined to
> believe that what I describe as a "grainy" appearence (as opposed to
> wat I'd call the "smooth" appearence of a CRT) is something that's
> inherent to the technology. It's not something that can be calibrated
> out.


No, you are not going out on a limb. My boy Kinon is like that little brown
pile you step on out in the front lawn that you try to scrape off, but there
is always some rotten smell that still lingers. Go with your instincts and
use what works for you. You are *NOT* going to find an LCD that will even
come close to the accuracy of CRT. Best bet is to save your money by
getting a CRT and put that towards a lens or something more useful. LCDs
will improve in the next 5-years. Buy one when they get them working
better.

> If I manage to find a photography or graphics arts store in my area
> that has some high-end LCDs on display, I will of course have a look
> at them, but I'm not going to spend several times the amount in my
> budget to get an LCD that looks like a CRT, when I can just get a CRT
> instead!


LOL! You got it! Smart man.





Rita

 
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