This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once and
for all the "correct" solution.

I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending on
the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left margin
at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
Before option in the style).

However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
(eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted BETWEEN
the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph starting
on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the page
number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.

I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so far
have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and it
also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can get
a bit tedious.

I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page breaks,
but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.

Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
Keep Lines Together?

TIA,
Lyn.

Hi Lyn,

I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
*or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.

Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
pages either.

The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.

If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:
>
> This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once and
> for all the "correct" solution.
>
> I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending on
> the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left margin
> at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
> necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
> Before option in the style).
>
> However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
> (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
> look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted BETWEEN
> the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph starting
> on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the page
> number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
>
> I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so far
> have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
> paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and it
> also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can get
> a bit tedious.
>
> I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page breaks,
> but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.
>
> Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
> Keep Lines Together?
>
> TIA,
> Lyn.

If you will apply the "Page break before" property to the heading instead of
inserting a manual page break, you will not have this problem.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Lyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once and
> for all the "correct" solution.
>
> I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending on
> the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left margin
> at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
> necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
> Before option in the style).
>
> However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
> (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
> look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
> the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
> on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
> number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
>
> I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
> have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
> paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and it
> also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
> a bit tedious.
>
> I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page breaks,
> but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.
>
> Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
> Keep Lines Together?
>
> TIA,
> Lyn.
>
>
>

Suzanne,
Thanks for your response. As I said, I don't normally want to start every
header at the top of a page, so I don't use this option. It occurs only
occasionally.

Unless you mean something like this:
** Have Page Break Before turned OFF in the heading style for normal use.
** Modify the paragraph setting (not the style) by setting Page Break Before
ON for a particular instance where I do want the header at the top of a
page.

That might be just as easy (and probably more elegant) than inserting a
one-point empty paragraph at the top of the page after a manual break.

Thanks again,
Lyn.

"Suzanne S. Barnhill" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> If you will apply the "Page break before" property to the heading instead
of
> inserting a manual page break, you will not have this problem.
>
> --
> Suzanne S. Barnhill
> Microsoft MVP (Word)
> Words into Type
> Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
> Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup
so
> all may benefit.
>
> "Lyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
> > for all the "correct" solution.
> >
> > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
> > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
> > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
> > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
> > Before option in the style).
> >
> > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
> > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
> > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> BETWEEN
> > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> starting
> > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
> page
> > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> >
> > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
> far
> > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
> > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
> > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
> get
> > a bit tedious.
> >
> > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
> > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.
> >
> > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
> > Keep Lines Together?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Lyn.
> >
> >
> >
>

Hi Mark,
Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.

I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!

I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
kind offer.

Thanks again,
Lyn.


"Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> Hi Lyn,
>
> I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
>
> Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> pages either.
>
> The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
>
> If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
>
> --
> Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
>
>
> Lyn wrote:
> >
> > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
and
> > for all the "correct" solution.
> >
> > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
on
> > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
margin
> > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
> > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
> > Before option in the style).
> >
> > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
> > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
> > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
BETWEEN
> > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
starting
> > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
page
> > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> >
> > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
far
> > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
> > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
it
> > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
get
> > a bit tedious.
> >
> > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
breaks,
> > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.
> >
> > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
> > Keep Lines Together?
> >
> > TIA,
> > Lyn.

I believe both Mark and I were suggesting (several times, actually) that you
apply this formatting on an ad hoc basis. You can simplify this by adding a
Page Break Before button to your toolbar: open Tools | Customize, display
the Commands tab, select the Format category, and look for the Para Page
Break Before command. Drag it to a toolbar.

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Lyn" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
> problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am
sure
> I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.
>
> I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
> break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format
(not
> the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
> keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro
to
> do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!
>
> I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
> kind offer.
>
> Thanks again,
> Lyn.
>
>
> "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > Hi Lyn,
> >
> > I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> > *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
> >
> > Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> > the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> > after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> > would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> > and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> > pages either.
> >
> > The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> > fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> > a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> > unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
> >
> > If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> > to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> >
> >
> > Lyn wrote:
> > >
> > > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
> and
> > > for all the "correct" solution.
> > >
> > > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc.
Depending
> on
> > > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
> margin
> > > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> > > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I
don't
> > > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page
Break
> > > Before option in the style).
> > >
> > > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a
page
> > > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a
nice
> > > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> > > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> BETWEEN
> > > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> starting
> > > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on
the
> page
> > > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> > >
> > > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but
so
> far
> > > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an
empty
> > > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page
and
> it
> > > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and
can
> get
> > > a bit tedious.
> > >
> > > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
> breaks,
> > > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional
use.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method
using
> > > Keep Lines Together?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > Lyn.
>
>

Lyn,

Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)

I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.

So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
ever tolerated it the other way.

More info:
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...oToToolbar.htm
http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...roToHotkey.htm

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


Lyn wrote:
>
> Hi Mark,
> Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
> problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am sure
> I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.
>
> I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
> break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format (not
> the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
> keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro to
> do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!
>
> I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
> kind offer.
>
> Thanks again,
> Lyn.
>
> "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > Hi Lyn,
> >
> > I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> > *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
> >
> > Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> > the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> > after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> > would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> > and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> > pages either.
> >
> > The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> > fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> > a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> > unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
> >
> > If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> > to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
> >
> > --
> > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> >
> >
> > Lyn wrote:
> > >
> > > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out once
> and
> > > for all the "correct" solution.
> > >
> > > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc. Depending
> on
> > > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
> margin
> > > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new header
> > > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I don't
> > > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page Break
> > > Before option in the style).
> > >
> > > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a page
> > > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a nice
> > > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by a
> > > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> BETWEEN
> > > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> starting
> > > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on the
> page
> > > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> > >
> > > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options, but so
> far
> > > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an empty
> > > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page and
> it
> > > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and can
> get
> > > a bit tedious.
> > >
> > > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
> breaks,
> > > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional use.
> > >
> > > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method using
> > > Keep Lines Together?
> > >
> > > TIA,
> > > Lyn.

This particular command doesn't require a macro, however, since, as I've
said, it is available from Tools | Customize as a readymade toolbar
button/menu item (though you'll have to come up with an icon, since it
doesn't have one).

--
Suzanne S. Barnhill
Microsoft MVP (Word)
Words into Type
Fairhope, Alabama USA
Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
all may benefit.

"Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
news:3F74B7DD.28EAC9A6@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> Lyn,
>
> Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
> overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
> realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
> it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
> why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
> needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
> should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
> even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)
>
> I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
> the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
> execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
> and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
> I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
> custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
> that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
> be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
> justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
> colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
> started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.
>
> So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
> your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
> in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
> with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
> of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
> ever tolerated it the other way.
>
> More info:
> http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...oToToolbar.htm
> http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...roToHotkey.htm
>
> --
> Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
>
>
> Lyn wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> > Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
> > problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am
sure
> > I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.
> >
> > I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
> > break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format
(not
> > the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
> > keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro
to
> > do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!
> >
> > I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
> > kind offer.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Lyn.
> >
> > "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > > Hi Lyn,
> > >
> > > I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> > > *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
> > >
> > > Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> > > the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> > > after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> > > would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> > > and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> > > pages either.
> > >
> > > The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> > > fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> > > a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> > > unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
> > >
> > > If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> > > to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> > >
> > >
> > > Lyn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > > > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out
once
> > and
> > > > for all the "correct" solution.
> > > >
> > > > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc.
Depending
> > on
> > > > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
> > margin
> > > > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new
header
> > > > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I
don't
> > > > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page
Break
> > > > Before option in the style).
> > > >
> > > > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a
page
> > > > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a
nice
> > > > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by
a
> > > > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> > BETWEEN
> > > > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> > starting
> > > > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on
the
> > page
> > > > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> > > >
> > > > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options,
but so
> > far
> > > > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an
empty
> > > > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > > > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page
and
> > it
> > > > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and
can
> > get
> > > > a bit tedious.
> > > >
> > > > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
> > breaks,
> > > > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional
use.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method
using
> > > > Keep Lines Together?
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > > Lyn.

You're right, it doesn't. My bad. (It does when *I* use it, though,
because I always want Word to zoom out for a moment so I can see what
the preceding page looks like after the heading is dragged south.)

Hey, no cracks about VBA addiction, eh?

--
Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
"Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters


"Suzanne S. Barnhill" wrote:
>
> This particular command doesn't require a macro, however, since, as I've
> said, it is available from Tools | Customize as a readymade toolbar
> button/menu item (though you'll have to come up with an icon, since it
> doesn't have one).
>
> --
> Suzanne S. Barnhill
> Microsoft MVP (Word)
> Words into Type
> Fairhope, Alabama USA
> Word MVP FAQ site: http://www.mvps.org/word
> Email cannot be acknowledged; please post all follow-ups to the newsgroup so
> all may benefit.
>
> "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> news:3F74B7DD.28EAC9A6@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > Lyn,
> >
> > Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
> > overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
> > realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
> > it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
> > why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
> > needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
> > should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
> > even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)
> >
> > I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
> > the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
> > execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
> > and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
> > I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
> > custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
> > that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
> > be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
> > justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
> > colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
> > started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.
> >
> > So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
> > your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
> > in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
> > with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
> > of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
> > ever tolerated it the other way.
> >
> > More info:
> > http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...oToToolbar.htm
> > http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...roToHotkey.htm
> >
> > --
> > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> >
> >
> > Lyn wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi Mark,
> > > Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
> > > problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am
> sure
> > > I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.
> > >
> > > I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
> > > break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format
> (not
> > > the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
> > > keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro
> to
> > > do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!
> > >
> > > I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
> > > kind offer.
> > >
> > > Thanks again,
> > > Lyn.
> > >
> > > "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> > > news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > > > Hi Lyn,
> > > >
> > > > I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> > > > *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
> > > >
> > > > Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> > > > the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> > > > after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> > > > would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> > > > and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> > > > pages either.
> > > >
> > > > The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> > > > fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> > > > a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> > > > unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
> > > >
> > > > If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> > > > to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > > > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > > > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > > > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Lyn wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > > > > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out
> once
> > > and
> > > > > for all the "correct" solution.
> > > > >
> > > > > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc.
> Depending
> > > on
> > > > > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
> > > margin
> > > > > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new
> header
> > > > > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I
> don't
> > > > > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page
> Break
> > > > > Before option in the style).
> > > > >
> > > > > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a
> page
> > > > > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a
> nice
> > > > > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by
> a
> > > > > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> > > BETWEEN
> > > > > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> > > starting
> > > > > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on
> the
> > > page
> > > > > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> > > > >
> > > > > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options,
> but so
> > > far
> > > > > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an
> empty
> > > > > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > > > > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page
> and
> > > it
> > > > > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and
> can
> > > get
> > > > > a bit tedious.
> > > > >
> > > > > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
> > > breaks,
> > > > > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional
> use.
> > > > >
> > > > > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method
> using
> > > > > Keep Lines Together?
> > > > >
> > > > > TIA,
> > > > > Lyn.

Mark

Another interesting(?) titbit is to actually look at the list of Word
Standard Commands. Go to Tools, Macros and select Word Commands under the
Look In box. It is here that you find that many commands that you use every
day which have been hidden three or more layers deep in Word Dialog boxes
are actually available in this list. You can 'simply' drag them up onto a
Toolbar so that you fill your toolbar with REALLY USEFULL buttons and not
useless buttons such as Cut, Copy, Paste, Bold, etc for which there are a
gazillion keyboard commands available.

In fact, there are undocumented commands available that I haven't found in
any dialog boxes at all.

--
Terry Farrell - Word MVP

PS. Did I really use the word 'interesting'!!!

"Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
news:3F74B7DD.28EAC9A6@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> Lyn,
>
> Yes, that is what (Suzanne and) I are suggesting. As for keystroke
> overhead, the deeper you get into Word, the more sobering it is to
> realize that zillions of useful features are squirreled away where
> it takes too many clicks or keystokes to invoke them. But that's
> why there are macros, so that you can tailor Word to your precise
> needs. (Granted, many of these are very common needs that Word
> should recognize but doesn't. Some of the most useful are never
> even mentioned in books, e.g., SentenceLeft and SentenceRight.)
>
> I must have at least 50 macros that do nothing more than simplify
> the execution of standard Word commands (or, increasingly now,
> execute standard Word commands with small changes that suit me),
> and Page Break Before was one of the earliest. Most of these
> I've assigned to custom buttons, custom keyboard shortcuts, or
> custom menu items. It sounds like you're a prime candidate for
> that sort of stuff, and I'm sure you know how rare that is, to
> be justifiably focused on efficiency -- and very probably also
> justifiably annoyed when a program (or your boss, or your
> colleagues, or the ubiquitous lame "tips" sites [don't get me
> started, grrr!]) can't appreciate it.
>
> So my advice is, yes, make a macro for it and customize it into
> your environment in any of the 3 ways mentioned above. And get
> in the habit of considering this notion whenever you're faced
> with a need to perform, recurrently, some inconvenient series
> of clicks or keystrokes. Pretty soon you'll wonder how you
> ever tolerated it the other way.
>
> More info:
> http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...oToToolbar.htm
> http://www.mvps.org/word/FAQs/Custom...roToHotkey.htm
>
> --
> Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
>
>
> Lyn wrote:
> >
> > Hi Mark,
> > Thanks for your response. It is interesting that you don't see this
> > problem. There must be something I am not doing right. Otherwise I am
sure
> > I would have seen this problem before in this newsgroup.
> >
> > I don't get the problem using Page Break Before, only with a manual page
> > break. I think maybe you are suggesting modifying the paragraph format
(not
> > the style) on an ad hoc basis as required. That seems like a lot of
> > keystrokes (or mouse strokes), although I suppose I could record a macro
to
> > do it. It just seems that there must be a simpler solution somewhere!
> >
> > I will have another fiddle and if I am still stuck, I might take up your
> > kind offer.
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Lyn.
> >
> > "Mark Tangard" <Mark@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com> wrote in message
> > news:3F72C67C.A920329F@NoMailPlease_Tangard.com...
> > > Hi Lyn,
> > >
> > > I can't reproduce your problem, either using manual page breaks
> > > *or* manually adding Page Break Before to the paragraph format.
> > >
> > > Ordinarily I'd suspect maybe you hadn't ensured that the start of
> > > the document (now section 2, after the section break you've placed
> > > after the TOC) has been set to restart numbering at 1. But that
> > > would throw off *all* your numbers, not just the page-starters --
> > > and not relative to the numbers that actually get printed on the
> > > pages either.
> > >
> > > The dot in the margin at the page break shouldn't matter. In
> > > fact, the apparent style of a page break that immediately precedes
> > > a heading doesn't affect the resulting TOC; otherwise you'd have
> > > unwanted page breaks in the middle of the TOC.
> > >
> > > If none of this helps, and if the file isn't enormous, email it
> > > to me at Mark /at/ Tangard /dot/ com and I'll have a look.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Mark Tangard, Microsoft Word MVP
> > > Please reply only to the newsgroup, not by private email.
> > > Note well: MVPs do not work for Microsoft.
> > > "Life is nothing if you're not obsessed." --John Waters
> > >
> > >
> > > Lyn wrote:
> > > >
> > > > This problem has been driving me nuts for ages. I have been using a
> > > > workaround (inconvenient), but I thought it was time to find out
once
> > and
> > > > for all the "correct" solution.
> > > >
> > > > I create TOCs based on the styles Heading 1, Heading 2, etc.
Depending
> > on
> > > > the Line and Page Break options set, I get a square dot in the left
> > margin
> > > > at the start of the header paragraph. Normally, I start a new
header
> > > > following on from the end of the previous paragraph -- that is, I
don't
> > > > necessarily start a new header on a new page (I don't use the Page
Break
> > > > Before option in the style).
> > > >
> > > > However, occasionally I do need to put a new header at the top of a
page
> > > > (eg, insufficient room at the bottom of the previous page to get a
nice
> > > > look). If I insert a manual page break and follow it immediately by
a
> > > > paragraph of one of the Heading n styles, the page break is inserted
> > BETWEEN
> > > > the square dot and the header text, and the TOC shows the paragraph
> > starting
> > > > on the previous page to where it really starts -- and Ctrl-Click on
the
> > page
> > > > number hyperlink in the TOC takes me to the wrong page.
> > > >
> > > > I have a done a little experimenting with the page break options,
but so
> > far
> > > > have not hit the right setup. My workaround has been to insert an
empty
> > > > paragraph set to one point font size between the page break and the
> > > > header -- this makes the header appear to be at the top of the page
and
> > it
> > > > also gets the TOC right. However, it is not an elegant solution and
can
> > get
> > > > a bit tedious.
> > > >
> > > > I know that the experts claim that you should not use manual page
> > breaks,
> > > > but sometimes that seems to be the simplest solution for occasional
use.
> > > >
> > > > Does anyone know the "proper" solution to this? Maybe some method
using
> > > > Keep Lines Together?
> > > >
> > > > TIA,
> > > > Lyn.