Re: MIcrosoft MVP Papajohn claims Movie Maker 2 Non-Linear Editing Environment

Erm... MM2 *is* a non-linear editing environment.

What's the point you're making?

Jake

<no.spam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:%23czOMnACEHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Yesterday Microsoft's Most Valued Profesional (MVP) Papajohn claimed that
> Windows Movie Maker 2 was in fact a Non-Linear Editing Environment.
>
> He Said...
> "As Movie Maker 2 is intended for those new to non-linear digital video
> editing, it's used by many who are also novices with computers....
> Microsoft have not yet confirmed the announcement by their MVP Papajohn
>
> For the full details see the message thread "Video Freezing ib Preview
> Window" in microsoft.public.windowsxp.moviemaker timed at 08:31 GMT on
10th
> March 2004

"Jake" <jake@~nospam`.jake.org.uk> wrote in message
news:OiaKEHBCEHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> Erm... MM2 *is* a non-linear editing environment.
>
> What's the point you're making?

John Kelly posted an article to every Microsoft group, slagging of Papajohn
(who, incidentally, was correct: MM2 is non-linear).

He obviously got severely spanked and has cancelled the original article and
posted an apology (see below)

Interestingly, he says he made "a mistake"...but the article was not
crossposted, it was manually posted as seperate articles one by one to all
the Microsoft groups. Even more bizarrely, he's followed up his own original
post with comments like "And....?"

It's generated quite a discussion! See http://snipurl.com/5265 for the
threads.

"John Kelly" <hidden@hide.away> wrote in message
news:edC19nCCEHA.3568@tk2msftngp13.phx.gbl...
> Earlier today I posted a message that was supposed to go to
> windowsxp.moviemaker and windowsme.moviemaker. Owing to my own errors, and
> not being more careful over what I did, I managed to send this message to
> every newsgroup at Microsoft. This was not my intention. Please accept my
> apologies.

> <no.spam@no.spam> wrote in message
> news:%23czOMnACEHA.3928@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Yesterday Microsoft's Most Valued Profesional (MVP) Papajohn claimed
that
> > Windows Movie Maker 2 was in fact a Non-Linear Editing Environment.
> >
> > He Said...
> > "As Movie Maker 2 is intended for those new to non-linear digital video
> > editing, it's used by many who are also novices with computers....
> > Microsoft have not yet confirmed the announcement by their MVP Papajohn
> >
> > For the full details see the message thread "Video Freezing ib Preview
> > Window" in microsoft.public.windowsxp.moviemaker timed at 08:31 GMT on
> 10th
> > March 2004
>
>

Hello Fool,

"Alan" <reply@thisgroup.please> wrote in message
news:eakbgWGCEHA.3784@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> "Jake" <jake@~nospam`.jake.org.uk> wrote in message
> news:OiaKEHBCEHA.3472@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > Erm... MM2 *is* a non-linear editing environment.
> >
> > What's the point you're making?
>
> John Kelly posted an article to every Microsoft group, slagging of
Papajohn
> (who, incidentally, was correct: MM2 is non-linear).

Movie Maker 2 is LINEAR....there is at least one other MVP saying so...in
fact he thought the comment was funny.

> He obviously got severely spanked and has cancelled the original article
and
> posted an apology (see below)

If you can find such a message anywhere I will leave this newsgroup
forever....provided the message has a clear ID showing it was posted before
your comments made anywhere and providing you can prove it was sent to me in
any newsgroup or email. Any attempt to forge such a message will result in
you meeting me in court. Further remarks along these lines will probably see
you there anyway...at which time you will be required to prove your remarks
or pay compensation....is this message coming in loud and clear Mr. Alan
Parker...and if you are now thinking that I do not know where you
live....silly boy, would you like me to post your address in here and on
every newsgroup I can lay my hands on? Try Me, somewhere up near Leeds area
was it?? Do you know what an Electoral Role is...I have a feeling you will
soon learn all about how usefull they are.

> Interestingly, he says he made "a mistake"...but the article was not
> crossposted, it was manually posted as seperate articles one by one to all
> the Microsoft groups. Even more bizarrely, he's followed up his own
original
> post with comments like "And....?"

The message was crossposted...you just don't know how I did it and it
was a mistake.....as per my message...perhaps, if you know how which I
doubt, you would like to tell us how a message can be crossposted and yet
appear as though it was a single message, it is very basic stuff, the answer
has been in front of you every time I post a message...you have got a lot to
learn and I predict it is going to cost you more than you imagined when you
posted this message.

> It's generated quite a discussion! See http://snipurl.com/5265 for the
> threads.

Yes, I have checked out the above URL, it seems you are the
instigator....you are very silly, I was initially tempted to post my message
to every news group in the world, and decided not to...then I made a mistake
anyway, for which I have received many messages of thanks from real MVP's,
but then you go and make my original thoughts come true by plastering it all
over those discussion forums...I could not have done better myself....if
this does not stir things up I don't know what will. Thanks for your
assistance...its a great shame you could not have seen me when I read those
threads..Brilliant Stuff. Whose side are you on again???

I now warn you formally, further posts by you about me that cannot be
proven will result in legal action being taken against you. You will receive
no further warnings from me on this subject.


John Kelly

Hello again,

We are still waiting for you to produce the headers from that other most
memorable of message you replied too...do you think that by ignoring the
repeated requests from me for proof that the original message ever existed,
the problem will go away??? silly boy.

http://home.datawest.net/esn-recovery/artcls/socio.ht


----- John Kelly wrote: ----

Hello again

We are still waiting for you to produce the headers from that other mos
memorable of message you replied too...do you think that by ignoring th
repeated requests from me for proof that the original message ever existed
the problem will go away??? silly boy

Mr Alan Parker,

Below my signature is the full unedited message received from your and
PapaJohns friend Mr. Eddy. You will see that after the full facts were made
available to him he entered the usual Company Policy Mode of admitting
nothing but none the less attempt to smooth a few feathers mode.

He finally as requested several times acquired the software News Rover and
had to admit that pressing one button would send out messages to all the
newsgroups selected even though they did get different ID numbers. His
refusal to move away from a clearly outmoded definition of what a cross
post is, does not surprise me, after all he was threatening and quite
indifferent in his initial responses, and because of his position clearly
had to defend that initial response even though he was demonstrably wrong.
His only way of proving that a message is posted to more than one newsgroup
(crossposting in my book) was to look at a message ID and to look if the
message header itself contained more than one newsgroup. Software now
exists that makes a complete joke out of that definition/ability and
removes from him the quick and easy way that used to be available to system
administrator. I posted a good number of messages for him in the test
groups (alt.test was one group) You should take a look at the last one I
posted...and at how easy it is to fool people who work within rigid
guidelines.

His final act of conciliation is the message you are about to see.

I will again warn you. No matter what it is you say about me either here or
in any other location on the Internet (and I think by now that you might
just be realising that I can do what I say) I will pursue you until I gain
complete satisfaction. So keep your mouth shut Mr. Alan Parker.

None of the above means that I am not still pressing home the complaint to
Microsoft about your message from the supposed Mr. Brown by the way, or
that I have stopped checking for 32 newsgroups that PapaJohn claims to post
to on a regular basis. That search is well advanced and there is nothing
like 32 newsgroups yet. When the software has finished scanning I will post
the results and give an appraisal of them as well...this appraisal will
have the backing of a full search of every newsgroup in the world and is
easily checked by anyone with the ability to do so.

I will of course make one exception to the paragraph above...in a previous
message I said I would leave the internet if you could prove, what was it
you said, Oh Yes, Cancelled the Original Message (Has microsoft told you
yet that no such cancelation was issued), I was Severely Spanked (How
Quaint) Have you yet found such a message with ID and Date Time Stamp to
prove what you say?

If you have one, try Engaging Brain Before Opening Mouth, or do I have to
go to the next step in locating where you live?

Are you getting the picture yet?

--
All the best.....John Kelly
The use of some one else's material and giving the impression you have done
it is called Plagiarism. Others name it for what it is...THEFT

Mr. Kelly,

I hope you can take this mail at face value, because I have no hidden
meaning in what I'm saying.

I am sincerely sorry that you and I could not come to an agreement on
what was done. I am sorry that you feel I threatened you.

If you wish, I can post my assessment of News Rover and what happened to
the Movie Maker newsgroup. Basically, it would be a copy of the email I
sent you and may help to explain to everyone what happened.

I can also give you the email and mailing addresses of my manager, her
manager, and his manager if you wish to submit a complaint about me.

John Eddy
Microsoft Newsgroups Administrator

The "outmoded definition" and "rigid guidelines" are well-established protocols and conventions, see for example http://www.cs.tut.fi/~jkorpela/usenet/xpost.html. If the Message-ID: header is different, you've multi-posted, not cross-posted; it sounds like News Rover makes multi-posting (too) easy

In any case, this discussion is way off topic for this NG

----- John Kelly wrote: ----

[...
He finally as requested several times acquired the software News Rover an
had to admit that pressing one button would send out messages to all th
newsgroups selected even though they did get different ID numbers. Hi
refusal to move away from a clearly outmoded definition of what a cros
post is, does not surprise me, after all he was threatening and quit
indifferent in his initial responses, and because of his position clearl
had to defend that initial response even though he was demonstrably wrong
His only way of proving that a message is posted to more than one newsgrou
(crossposting in my book) was to look at a message ID and to look if th
message header itself contained more than one newsgroup. Software no
exists that makes a complete joke out of that definition/ability an
removes from him the quick and easy way that used to be available to syste
administrator. I posted a good number of messages for him in the tes
groups (alt.test was one group) You should take a look at the last one
posted...and at how easy it is to fool people who work within rigi
guidelines
[...

"John Kelly" <nospam@no.spam> wrote in message
news:uWnMS9GCEHA.1236@TK2MSFTNGP11.phx.gbl...
> Hello Fool,

> Movie Maker 2 is LINEAR....there is at least one other MVP saying so...in
> fact he thought the comment was funny.


John, you're flat-out wrong here. Don't just take my word for it, google the
term "non-linear editing" and you'll get dozens of sites explaining the
differences.

To summarize:

With linear editing, you have to lay down everything in the order in which
it will appear in the final product. An example would be deck-to-deck video
editing, or using Virtual Dub's "append AVI file" feature. If you want to
make a change, you start over from scratch.

Non-linear editing is anything that allows you to insert a change in the
middle of a movie without changing what surrounds it. Splicing film is NLE
at its most basic. 90% of all video editing packages are NLE.

The fact that MM2 has a timeline does not make it linear. Quite the
opposite.

Seriously dude, you need to drop the persecution complex, stop threatening
to sue/stalk people, and not contradict Papajohn at every turn. From
everything I've seen here, you know what you're talking about 75% of the
time, but the other quarter, you're nine kinds of crazy.

Just my $0.02.

-HW