MSN Messenger & XP problems

A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her brother
in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week. Coincidentally,
both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
videoconference since then.

At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when both
users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio button,
it all works.

Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but it's a
real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide, or
does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if they've
been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.

TIA

If one party is behind a router, problems sometimes occur.
Try a 14 day trial of http://www.purenetworks.com/trial.php which will
automatically configure the router and other settings.
It worked for me when I had the exact same problem.


"Trent SC" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eBg8stHoEHA.1668@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
>brother
> in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
> Coincidentally,
> both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
> videoconference since then.
>
> At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
> conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when
> both
> users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
> button,
> it all works.
>
> Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but it's
> a
> real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide, or
> does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if they've
> been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
>
> TIA
>
>

Thanks for the suggestion, but the hardware configurations have been
unchanged for some months. Apart from a recent installation of SP2 at both
ends (and videoconferencing was possible after this), nothing has been
installed on the hardware or software side.

"Alan White" <alanwhite@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Kln4d.17455$bL1.905828@news20.bellglobal.com...
> If one party is behind a router, problems sometimes occur.
> Try a 14 day trial of http://www.purenetworks.com/trial.php which will
> automatically configure the router and other settings.
> It worked for me when I had the exact same problem.
>
>
> "Trent SC" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:eBg8stHoEHA.1668@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
> >A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
> >brother
> > in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
> > Coincidentally,
> > both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
> > videoconference since then.
> >
> > At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
> > conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when
> > both
> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
> > button,
> > it all works.
> >
> > Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but
it's
> > a
> > real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide,
or
> > does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if
they've
> > been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
> >
> > TIA
> >
> >
>
>

"Trent SC" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:eBg8stHoEHA.1668@TK2MSFTNGP14.phx.gbl...
>A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
>brother
> in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
> Coincidentally,
> both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
> videoconference since then.
>
> At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
> conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when
> both
> users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
> button,
> it all works.
>
> Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but it's
> a
> real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide, or
> does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if they've
> been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
>
> TIA
>

The webcam works because there are fallback connection methods
available, such as a relay server. Video conferencing uses only a direct
connection method and is thus more prone to failure.

SP2 changed the version and functionality of Windows Messenger.
Second hand reports like this get Windows Messenger and MSN
Messenger confused frequently. Are you sure that the brother in
Canada has MSN Messenger 6.2 installed and is using that? You
might think that doesn't matter since video conferencing (not the
easier webcam) has worked since SP2. But I have seen to many
reports of sometimes audio, sometimes not, sometimes audio and
sometimes not video, sometimes video and no audio and so on.
And it does not seem to me that the reasons are usually understood
in some cases which do get resolved. Turning off QoS is a solution
given for audio lag, but I have seen no explantion about why there
is a conflict or what the conflict is that this fix solves.

The documentation on trouble shooting is incomplete. So you can
make sure that both parties have MSN 6.2. I have seen other people
solve problems by uninstalling the Windows Messenger that comes
with SP2 by downloading and installing the slightly previous version
from Microsoft.

www.microsoft.com go to downloads and the old version is download #49
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...&DisplayLang=en

Regards,
Stephen

> >A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
> >brother
> > in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
> > Coincidentally,
> > both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
> > videoconference since then.
> >
> > At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
> > conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when
> > both
> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
> > button,
> > it all works.
> >
> > Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but
it's
> > a
> > real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide,
or
> > does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if
they've
> > been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
> >
> > TIA
> >
>
> The webcam works because there are fallback connection methods
> available, such as a relay server. Video conferencing uses only a direct
> connection method and is thus more prone to failure.
>
> SP2 changed the version and functionality of Windows Messenger.
> Second hand reports like this get Windows Messenger and MSN
> Messenger confused frequently. Are you sure that the brother in
> Canada has MSN Messenger 6.2 installed and is using that? You
> might think that doesn't matter since video conferencing (not the
> easier webcam) has worked since SP2. But I have seen to many
> reports of sometimes audio, sometimes not, sometimes audio and
> sometimes not video, sometimes video and no audio and so on.
> And it does not seem to me that the reasons are usually understood
> in some cases which do get resolved. Turning off QoS is a solution
> given for audio lag, but I have seen no explantion about why there
> is a conflict or what the conflict is that this fix solves.
>
> The documentation on trouble shooting is incomplete. So you can
> make sure that both parties have MSN 6.2. I have seen other people
> solve problems by uninstalling the Windows Messenger that comes
> with SP2 by downloading and installing the slightly previous version
> from Microsoft.
>
> www.microsoft.com go to downloads and the old version is download #49
>
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...&DisplayLang=en
>
>
Your link points to Windows Messenger 4.7, which I presume is an earlier
version of Windows Messenger 5.0 (which is a link on the 'related resources'
box on the download page. Out of interest, is there any reason why you're
suggesting this rather than MSN Messenger?

"Trent SC" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4152eb2e$0$42233$ed2e19e4@ptn-nntp-reader04.plus.net...
>> >A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
>> >brother
>> > in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
>> > Coincidentally,
>> > both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
>> > videoconference since then.
>> >
>> > At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a video
>> > conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But when
>> > both
>> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
>> > button,
>> > it all works.
>> >
>> > Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but
> it's
>> > a
>> > real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting guide,
> or
>> > does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if
> they've
>> > been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
>> >
>> > TIA
>> >
>>
>> The webcam works because there are fallback connection methods
>> available, such as a relay server. Video conferencing uses only a direct
>> connection method and is thus more prone to failure.
>>
>> SP2 changed the version and functionality of Windows Messenger.
>> Second hand reports like this get Windows Messenger and MSN
>> Messenger confused frequently. Are you sure that the brother in
>> Canada has MSN Messenger 6.2 installed and is using that? You
>> might think that doesn't matter since video conferencing (not the
>> easier webcam) has worked since SP2. But I have seen to many
>> reports of sometimes audio, sometimes not, sometimes audio and
>> sometimes not video, sometimes video and no audio and so on.
>> And it does not seem to me that the reasons are usually understood
>> in some cases which do get resolved. Turning off QoS is a solution
>> given for audio lag, but I have seen no explantion about why there
>> is a conflict or what the conflict is that this fix solves.
>>
>> The documentation on trouble shooting is incomplete. So you can
>> make sure that both parties have MSN 6.2. I have seen other people
>> solve problems by uninstalling the Windows Messenger that comes
>> with SP2 by downloading and installing the slightly previous version
>> from Microsoft.
>>
>> www.microsoft.com go to downloads and the old version is download #49
>>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...&DisplayLang=en
>>

First Post:
Trent wrote:
Thanks for your input. Both users have updated recently to SP2, so I have
to assume that if there have been any changes to Messenger, both users now
have the same versions.

SH: They do probably have the same newer version of Windows Messenger
which is not the link I gave you (the older version). There are different
versions
of 4.7 and SP2 installs a newer version of 4.7 not 5.0.

Many end users are confused about the difference in functionality between
Windows Messenger microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger and
MSN Messenger 6.x microsoft.public.msn.messenger

And users can also be confused if they are having a Windows Messenger (WM)
to Windows Messenger connection or WM to MSN Messenger or MSN
Messenger to MSN Messenger connection.

One cannot conclude because two users have the same version of WM
installed on their machine that there connection attempts are both made
with WM as the primary connection program. Or because you know
that one user is using MSN Messenger 6.2 that the other user is using
6.2 also. WM is a somewhat different program and MSN 6.2 borrows
some of its functionality, so you just can't remove WM without risk.

>>
> Your link points to Windows Messenger 4.7, which I presume is an earlier
> version of Windows Messenger 5.0 (which is a link on the 'related
> resources'
> box on the download page. Out of interest, is there any reason why you're
> suggesting this rather than MSN Messenger?
>
>

Both WM and MSN Messenger are needed for MSN M. to have full
functionality. I'm suggesting replacing the new version of WM that came
with SP2 and to use MSN Messenger 6.2 for connection purposes.
But, I dont think you know if the brother in Canada used MSN Messenger
for connections with his sister or if he was using the earlier version of WM
because end users often don't know the difference.

As I stated before, there is no complete (or even near complete)
documentation
written for troubleshooting problems. There are many reports of intermittent
problems (it works once in awhile) which result from problems in the code of
the specific program(s) which are not necessarily created by user error.

There is no established procedure to fix the problem you report. So I
suggested something that might work, because that is all that is available.
According to the resident guru, changing WM versions sometimes helps:

Use groups.google.com
for researching more information by using keyword searches

Re: Differences in WM 4.7.2009 vs WM 4.7.3
Greetings John,

Differences - Add-In support was taken out, among a bunch of other stuff.

Advantages - Support the new security API in SP2 (which basically will deny
receiving files of certain types, that's about it).

All in all, going back to 4.7.2009 is generally a good idea if problems are
being
encountered.
____________________________________________
Jonathan Kay
Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger

Good Luck,
Stephen

> >> >A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
> >> >brother
> >> > in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
> >> > Coincidentally,
> >> > both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
> >> > videoconference since then.
> >> >
> >> > At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a
video
> >> > conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But
when
> >> > both
> >> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
> >> > button,
> >> > it all works.
> >> >
> >> > Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but
> > it's
> >> > a
> >> > real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting
guide,
> > or
> >> > does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if
> > they've
> >> > been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
> >> >
> >> > TIA
> >> >
> >>
> >> The webcam works because there are fallback connection methods
> >> available, such as a relay server. Video conferencing uses only a
direct
> >> connection method and is thus more prone to failure.
> >>
> >> SP2 changed the version and functionality of Windows Messenger.
> >> Second hand reports like this get Windows Messenger and MSN
> >> Messenger confused frequently. Are you sure that the brother in
> >> Canada has MSN Messenger 6.2 installed and is using that? You
> >> might think that doesn't matter since video conferencing (not the
> >> easier webcam) has worked since SP2. But I have seen to many
> >> reports of sometimes audio, sometimes not, sometimes audio and
> >> sometimes not video, sometimes video and no audio and so on.
> >> And it does not seem to me that the reasons are usually understood
> >> in some cases which do get resolved. Turning off QoS is a solution
> >> given for audio lag, but I have seen no explantion about why there
> >> is a conflict or what the conflict is that this fix solves.
> >>
> >> The documentation on trouble shooting is incomplete. So you can
> >> make sure that both parties have MSN 6.2. I have seen other people
> >> solve problems by uninstalling the Windows Messenger that comes
> >> with SP2 by downloading and installing the slightly previous version
> >> from Microsoft.
> >>
> >> www.microsoft.com go to downloads and the old version is download #49
> >>
> >
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/...&DisplayLang=en
> >>
>
> First Post:
> Trent wrote:
> Thanks for your input. Both users have updated recently to SP2, so I have
> to assume that if there have been any changes to Messenger, both users now
> have the same versions.
>
> SH: They do probably have the same newer version of Windows Messenger
> which is not the link I gave you (the older version). There are different
> versions
> of 4.7 and SP2 installs a newer version of 4.7 not 5.0.
>
> Many end users are confused about the difference in functionality between
> Windows Messenger microsoft.public.windowsxp.messenger and
> MSN Messenger 6.x microsoft.public.msn.messenger
>
> And users can also be confused if they are having a Windows Messenger (WM)
> to Windows Messenger connection or WM to MSN Messenger or MSN
> Messenger to MSN Messenger connection.
>
> One cannot conclude because two users have the same version of WM
> installed on their machine that there connection attempts are both made
> with WM as the primary connection program. Or because you know
> that one user is using MSN Messenger 6.2 that the other user is using
> 6.2 also. WM is a somewhat different program and MSN 6.2 borrows
> some of its functionality, so you just can't remove WM without risk.
>
> >>
> > Your link points to Windows Messenger 4.7, which I presume is an earlier
> > version of Windows Messenger 5.0 (which is a link on the 'related
> > resources'
> > box on the download page. Out of interest, is there any reason why
you're
> > suggesting this rather than MSN Messenger?
> >
> >
>
> Both WM and MSN Messenger are needed for MSN M. to have full
> functionality. I'm suggesting replacing the new version of WM that came
> with SP2 and to use MSN Messenger 6.2 for connection purposes.
> But, I dont think you know if the brother in Canada used MSN Messenger
> for connections with his sister or if he was using the earlier version of
WM
> because end users often don't know the difference.
>
> As I stated before, there is no complete (or even near complete)
> documentation
> written for troubleshooting problems. There are many reports of
intermittent
> problems (it works once in awhile) which result from problems in the code
of
> the specific program(s) which are not necessarily created by user error.
>
> There is no established procedure to fix the problem you report. So I
> suggested something that might work, because that is all that is
available.
> According to the resident guru, changing WM versions sometimes helps:
>
> Use groups.google.com
> for researching more information by using keyword searches
>
> Re: Differences in WM 4.7.2009 vs WM 4.7.3
> Greetings John,
>
> Differences - Add-In support was taken out, among a bunch of other stuff.
>
> Advantages - Support the new security API in SP2 (which basically will
deny
> receiving files of certain types, that's about it).
>
> All in all, going back to 4.7.2009 is generally a good idea if problems
are
> being
> encountered.
> ____________________________________________
> Jonathan Kay
> Microsoft MVP - Windows Messenger/MSN Messenger
>
> Good Luck,
> Stephen
>
>
Hi Stephen,

Thanks for the carefully thought-out response - it's very much appreciated.
I can confirm that both users are running MSN Messenger 6.2, although I will
suggest that they try out Windows Messenger to see if they get a different
result.

"Trent SC" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:41534f5c$0$82234$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net...
>> >> >A colleague uses MSN Messenger regularly to videoconference with her
>> >> >brother
>> >> > in Canada, and this problem has surfaced in the last week.
>> >> > Coincidentally,
>> >> > both have upgraded to SP2, although they appear to have been able to
>> >> > videoconference since then.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the moment, an invitation (either sent or received) to start a
> video
>> >> > conference fails, despite the user accepting the invitation. But
> when
>> >> > both
>> >> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
>> >> > button,
>> >> > it all works.
>> >> >
>> >> > Extremely weird - it appears that a step-by-step approach works, but
>> > it's
>> >> > a
>> >> > real PITA. Is there by any chance a good online troubleshooting
> guide,
>> > or
>> >> > does anyone have any ideas? I can't imagine it's an SP2 issue if
>> > they've
>> >> > been able to establish a connection to each other since the upgrade.
>> >> >
>> >> > TIA
>> >> >
> Hi Stephen,
>
> Thanks for the carefully thought-out response - it's very much
> appreciated.
> I can confirm that both users are running MSN Messenger 6.2, although I
> will
> suggest that they try out Windows Messenger to see if they get a different
> result.
>

Video conferencing is possible with Win xp and MSN M. 6.2
It trys to establish a direct connection rather than using a relay server.

Using send webcam creates video pics, but is not the same as video
conferencing. Webcam will fallback to the relay server if the direct
connection fails, unlike video conferencing.

I really can't tell from what you wrote that video conferencing works.
Because you can have audio and webcam working and not
video conferencing, I use webcam/audio all the time. Jonathon Kay
mentioned that video conferencing is for two parties, but webcam will
support more connections.

>> >> > users click on 'send webcam', and once that's opened OK on the audio
>> >> > button,
>> >> > it all works.

How did you determine that video conferencing is working now, rather
than webcam and audio? when you report "it all works". I can send
files using using Msn 6.2 , webcam and audio, for instance.

I have in the past used too much time trying to fix slight imperfections,
especially when replacing WM with an older version is no cinch.

Over and out,
Stephen