XPe & HyperThreading & EWF

Hi, All!

I'm trying to make a bootable CD for the dual XEON machine (TYAN Tiger
i7500 motherboard to be precize). I did a lot CDs for the P3, P4 - so I
do know how to make it :-)) But not in this particular case.

So, I have a 'normal' XPe image (XPeSP1) that works on this machine
(with all devices recognized and 2(4) CPUs shown in the TaskManager) -
means that my PMQ is OK and all devices are in database.

I have reduced target version for the ElTorito disk. It works for the P4
and P3 machines (with the different devices set of course).

When I'm trying to boot the reduced ElTorito version (with all drivers
for the XEON machine) I'm getting problem even before etprep /all command.

The EWF partition is been created and image starts from the hdd *only*
if I *switched off HyperThreading* and left 1 CPU. In this case all
works. I mean ewgmgr shows partition, my apps running - OK.
When I switch on HyperThreading - I get BSOD 0x000000C2 (0x00000007,
0x00000CD4, 0x0, 0xF8990C4C). I switch HT off - all works.

So, as I see the problem arises when I have more than 1 CPU and EWF.

Has anybody succeeded with building ElTorito CD that works on a
multiprocessor PC?
Did MS test EWF on the ACPI Multiprocessor PC?

Thanks in advance, Nick.

--
Nikolai Vorontsov
Quadrox NV

Hi, All!

In addition to my prevous post:

After ETPREP /all, making an iso and burning a CD - I got the 0x0000007B
error :-( even with 1 CPU. I tested with the exact drivers, with
Standard Dual Channel IDE controller - no way.
I have an impression that something is wrong in the EWF...

BTW, etprep has reported that it can't swap drives (0x01), but as
somebody from MS said - it's not a problem.

Hi, Jon and other guys from MS - could you confirm that ElTorito disk
can boot on a dual CPU machine with Intel E7500 chipset?

Thanks.

--
Nikolai Vorontsov
Quadrox NV

Hello Nikolai,
>
> The EWF partition is been created and image starts from the hdd *only*
> if I *switched off HyperThreading* and left 1 CPU. In this case all
> works. I mean ewgmgr shows partition, my apps running - OK.
> When I switch on HyperThreading - I get BSOD 0x000000C2 (0x00000007,
> 0x00000CD4, 0x0, 0xF8990C4C). I switch HT off - all works.
>
> So, as I see the problem arises when I have more than 1 CPU and EWF.
>
> Has anybody succeeded with building ElTorito CD that works on a
> multiprocessor PC?
> Did MS test EWF on the ACPI Multiprocessor PC?

I'm not using ElTorito.

But I have successfully used EWF on Dual XEON P4-2400 machine.

Also I am using EWF with HTT Enabled on current device we are preparing.

So EWF is working on ACPI Multiprocessor PC?

At least in all my cases.


Best regards,
Slobodan

Nikolai,

I am a little curios. I have XPe running on a Dual P3 machine with out
problems. Your system is dual XEON with Hyperthreading. Isn't the
Hyperthreading effect that a single physcial processor looks like two
virtual processors in the system? If you have two physical processors with
Hyperthreading, does that make the system look like it has 4 processors in
the system? The reason I curios is that XPe will only support 2 processor
out of the box, and don't know what effect Hyperthreading will have.

Regards,

Sean Liming
www.a7eng.com
Author: Windows NT Embedded Step-By-Step and XP Embedded Advanced.



"Nikolai Vorontsov" <nickviz@mail.ru> wrote in message
news:%23rYyJnHbDHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
> Hi, All!
>
> I'm trying to make a bootable CD for the dual XEON machine (TYAN Tiger
> i7500 motherboard to be precize). I did a lot CDs for the P3, P4 - so I
> do know how to make it :-)) But not in this particular case.
>
> So, I have a 'normal' XPe image (XPeSP1) that works on this machine
> (with all devices recognized and 2(4) CPUs shown in the TaskManager) -
> means that my PMQ is OK and all devices are in database.
>
> I have reduced target version for the ElTorito disk. It works for the P4
> and P3 machines (with the different devices set of course).
>
> When I'm trying to boot the reduced ElTorito version (with all drivers
> for the XEON machine) I'm getting problem even before etprep /all command.
>
> The EWF partition is been created and image starts from the hdd *only*
> if I *switched off HyperThreading* and left 1 CPU. In this case all
> works. I mean ewgmgr shows partition, my apps running - OK.
> When I switch on HyperThreading - I get BSOD 0x000000C2 (0x00000007,
> 0x00000CD4, 0x0, 0xF8990C4C). I switch HT off - all works.
>
> So, as I see the problem arises when I have more than 1 CPU and EWF.
>
> Has anybody succeeded with building ElTorito CD that works on a
> multiprocessor PC?
> Did MS test EWF on the ACPI Multiprocessor PC?
>
> Thanks in advance, Nick.
>
> --
> Nikolai Vorontsov
> Quadrox NV
>

I hate typos... Let's try that again.

Hyperthreading is 2 logical processors in one physical CPU. The OS doesn't
distinguish though. Since XP only supports 2 processors, that means you can
have one physical CPU with hyperthreading (thus 2 processors) or two
physical CPUs without hyperthreading (thus 2 processors).

If you have a system with 2 hyperthreading CPUs (thus 4 processors), XP will
only enumerate 2 of them. Which 2 is upto your BIOS. Typically, its going
to be the 1st logical processor in the first CPU and the 1st logical
processor in the second CPU.



Gordon Smith (eMVP) wrote:
> Hyperthreading is 2 logical processors in my physical CPU. The OS
> doesn't distinguish though. Since XP only supports 2 processors,
> that means you can have one physical CPU with hyperthreading (thus 2
> processors) or two physical CPUs without hyperthreading (thus 2
> processors).
>
>
>
> Sean Liming (eMVP) wrote:
>> Nikolai,
>>
>> I am a little curios. I have XPe running on a Dual P3 machine with
>> out problems. Your system is dual XEON with Hyperthreading. Isn't the
>> Hyperthreading effect that a single physcial processor looks like two
>> virtual processors in the system? If you have two physical processors
>> with Hyperthreading, does that make the system look like it has 4
>> processors in the system? The reason I curios is that XPe will only
>> support 2 processor out of the box, and don't know what effect
>> Hyperthreading will have.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Sean Liming
>> www.a7eng.com
>> Author: Windows NT Embedded Step-By-Step and XP Embedded Advanced.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Nikolai Vorontsov" <nickviz@mail.ru> wrote in message
>> news:%23rYyJnHbDHA.2372@TK2MSFTNGP10.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi, All!
>>>
>>> I'm trying to make a bootable CD for the dual XEON machine (TYAN
>>> Tiger i7500 motherboard to be precize). I did a lot CDs for the P3,
>>> P4 - so I do know how to make it :-)) But not in this particular
>>> case.
>>>
>>> So, I have a 'normal' XPe image (XPeSP1) that works on this machine
>>> (with all devices recognized and 2(4) CPUs shown in the TaskManager)
>>> - means that my PMQ is OK and all devices are in database.
>>>
>>> I have reduced target version for the ElTorito disk. It works for
>>> the P4 and P3 machines (with the different devices set of course).
>>>
>>> When I'm trying to boot the reduced ElTorito version (with all
>>> drivers for the XEON machine) I'm getting problem even before etprep
>>> /all command.
>>>
>>> The EWF partition is been created and image starts from the hdd
>>> *only*
>>> if I *switched off HyperThreading* and left 1 CPU. In this case all
>>> works. I mean ewgmgr shows partition, my apps running - OK.
>>> When I switch on HyperThreading - I get BSOD 0x000000C2 (0x00000007,
>>> 0x00000CD4, 0x0, 0xF8990C4C). I switch HT off - all works.
>>>
>>> So, as I see the problem arises when I have more than 1 CPU and EWF.
>>>
>>> Has anybody succeeded with building ElTorito CD that works on a
>>> multiprocessor PC?
>>> Did MS test EWF on the ACPI Multiprocessor PC?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance, Nick.
>>>
>>> --
>>> Nikolai Vorontsov
>>> Quadrox NV

--
Gordon Smith (eMVP)
Gordon.Smith@nospam.avnet.com

Hi Gordon,
I don't have four processors but I'm very curious about this feature.

What do you think about statement from Nikolai?

>> So, I have a 'normal' XPe image (XPeSP1) that works on this machine
>> (with all devices recognized and 2(4) CPUs shown in the TaskManager) -
>> means that my PMQ is OK and all devices are in database.

> If you have a system with 2 hyperthreading CPUs (thus 4 processors), XP
will
> only enumerate 2 of them. Which 2 is upto your BIOS. Typically, its
going
> to be the 1st logical processor in the first CPU and the 1st logical
> processor in the second CPU.


Best regards,
Slobodan Brcin

I'd want someone from Microsoft to validate since I haven't personally
tested it but I'm assuming that the failure he's seeing is due to XP finding
>2 processors. Maybe he ran TAP.exe without hyperthreading enabled and thus
the system he built didn't have a multiproc hal included.

Slobodan Brcin wrote:
> Hi Gordon,
> I don't have four processors but I'm very curious about this feature.
>
> What do you think about statement from Nikolai?
>
>>> So, I have a 'normal' XPe image (XPeSP1) that works on this machine
>>> (with all devices recognized and 2(4) CPUs shown in the
>>> TaskManager) - means that my PMQ is OK and all devices are in
>>> database.
>
>> If you have a system with 2 hyperthreading CPUs (thus 4 processors),
>> XP will only enumerate 2 of them. Which 2 is upto your BIOS.
>> Typically, its going to be the 1st logical processor in the first
>> CPU and the 1st logical processor in the second CPU.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Slobodan Brcin

--
Gordon Smith (eMVP)
Gordon.Smith@nospam.avnet.com

> I'd want someone from Microsoft to validate since I haven't personally
> tested it but I'm assuming that the failure he's seeing is due to XP
finding
> >2 processors. Maybe he ran TAP.exe without hyperthreading enabled and
thus
> the system he built didn't have a multiproc hal included.

Well if I understood correctly he explicitly said that in some build he can
see 2(4) processors, maybe I am wrong in interpreting this.

I have always assumed that Windows XP Home was meant for only one processor,
Although I can't remember where I have read that.
But it is working with HTT and I can see two processors.

So maybe it is same situation with Windows XP Professional, instead of two
you can use four processors in HTT case. Don't know.


Best regards,
Slobodan

Hyperthreading sounds really cool, but how does it play against the
limitation that XPe can only support upto two processors. MS or Intel should
be able to answer this issue. If I have a chance I will check out El-Torito
booting from my Dual P3.

Sean


"Slobodan Brcin" <sbrcin@ptt.yu> wrote in message
news:%233xhs$LbDHA.2344@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
> > I'd want someone from Microsoft to validate since I haven't personally
> > tested it but I'm assuming that the failure he's seeing is due to XP
> finding
> > >2 processors. Maybe he ran TAP.exe without hyperthreading enabled and
> thus
> > the system he built didn't have a multiproc hal included.
>
> Well if I understood correctly he explicitly said that in some build he
can
> see 2(4) processors, maybe I am wrong in interpreting this.
>
> I have always assumed that Windows XP Home was meant for only one
processor,
> Although I can't remember where I have read that.
> But it is working with HTT and I can see two processors.
>
> So maybe it is same situation with Windows XP Professional, instead of two
> you can use four processors in HTT case. Don't know.
>
>
> Best regards,
> Slobodan
>
>

In the current set of OSes from Microsoft, each logical processor counts as
a processor towards its total count. The OS doesn't distinguish. The OS
enumerates processors from the BIOS - the BIOS is simply listing them all.

If you have a 2 CPU system (C1 and C2) each with hyperthreading then the
processors are reported to the OS in this order:

C1.first
C2.first
C1.second
C2.second

At least on the systems I've dealt with.

--Gordon

Sean Liming (eMVP) wrote:
> Hyperthreading sounds really cool, but how does it play against the
> limitation that XPe can only support upto two processors. MS or Intel
> should be able to answer this issue. If I have a chance I will check
> out El-Torito booting from my Dual P3.
>
> Sean
>
>
> "Slobodan Brcin" <sbrcin@ptt.yu> wrote in message
> news:%233xhs$LbDHA.2344@TK2MSFTNGP09.phx.gbl...
>>> I'd want someone from Microsoft to validate since I haven't
>>> personally tested it but I'm assuming that the failure he's seeing
>>> is due to XP
>> finding
>>>> 2 processors. Maybe he ran TAP.exe without hyperthreading enabled
>>>> and
>> thus
>>> the system he built didn't have a multiproc hal included.
>>
>> Well if I understood correctly he explicitly said that in some build
>> he can see 2(4) processors, maybe I am wrong in interpreting this.
>>
>> I have always assumed that Windows XP Home was meant for only one
>> processor, Although I can't remember where I have read that.
>> But it is working with HTT and I can see two processors.
>>
>> So maybe it is same situation with Windows XP Professional, instead
>> of two you can use four processors in HTT case. Don't know.
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Slobodan

--
Gordon Smith (eMVP)
Gordon.Smith@nospam.avnet.com