OT: ? Front panel audio - guru required !

Oh.... those were the days when I could connect anything to anything !

Can anyone tell me how to connect motherboard Front Panel Audio Header
(9-pin HD_AUDIO1), to an old (AC'97
?), case Front Panel Audio panel.

The motherboard is an "all in one" Asrock ALIVEN56G-VSTA/M/ASR with 6 x
3.5mm jacks on the ATX block of connectors.
The case front block of plug-holes only has 2 x 3.5mm jacks for Mic. and
Headphones, ...(and 2xUSB and a 1394a firewire port)

Obviously I can't, (and don't want to), make use of "High Definition" Audio,
(there's not enough
plug holes on the case front), but, I should be able to connect
microphone, and stereo headphone case front fly lead tails ?.

....as usual - only part of the required information is in the motherboard
(Asrock) "manual" :-
<quote>
1. High definition Audio supports Jack Sensing, but the panel wire on the
chassis must support HDA to function correctly. Please follow the
instruction in our manual and chassis manual to instlal your system.
(that's the bit I don't want and can't use of course).
2. If you use AC'97 audio panel, please install it to the front panel audio
header as below:
A. Connect Mic_IN (MIC) to MIC2_L.
B. Connect Audio_R (RIN) to OUT2_R and Audio_L (LIN) to OUT2_L.
C. Connect Ground (GND) to Ground (GND).
D. MIC_RET and OUT_RET are for HD audio panel only. You don't need to
connect them for AC'97 audio panel.
E. Enter BIOS Setup Uitility. Enter Advanced Settings, and then select
chipset Configuration. Set the Front Panel Control option from [Auto] to
[Enabled].
F. Enter Windows system. Click the icon on the lower right handtaskbar to
enter Realtek HD Audio Manager. Click "Audio I/O", select "Connector
Settings, choose "Disable front panel jack detection", and save the change
by clicking "OK".
<end quote>

Now for the fun part:
Motherboard - Front Panel Audio Header (9-pin HD_AUDIO1)

Pins:
246x10 (x position blank / "key", or no pin if you like)
13579 (or should that be a 8 where the 9 is, ..and a 9 where I've put
the 10 ? :-( ...I'll leave it as it is !

Pin 1. MIC2_L
Pin 2. GND
Pin 3. MIC2_R
Pin 4. PRESENCE #
Pin 5. OUT2_R
Pin 6. MIC2_RET
Pin 7. J_SENSE
Pin 8. no pin
Pin 9. OUT2_L
Pin 10. OUT_RET

AC'97 from case front panel tails:-
Gnd
MIC-VCC
MIC-IN
LINE-OUT-L
LINE-OUT-R
LINE-IN-L
LINE-IN-R

....anyhooo after riduculous amounts of time scouring the web, I propose :-
tail MIC-IN connected to pin 1. MIC2_L
tail GND connected to pin 2. GND
tail LINE-IN-R connected to pin 5. OUT2_R
tail LINE-IN-L ocnnected to pin 9. OUT2_L

....so does MIC-VCC (bias) need to be connected anywhere ?
....and LINE-OUT-L and LINE-OUT-R seem to have nowhere to go.

Any thoughts MOS appreciated.

TIA

regards, Richard

RJK wrote:
> Oh.... those were the days when I could connect anything to anything !
>
> Can anyone tell me how to connect motherboard Front Panel Audio Header
> (9-pin HD_AUDIO1), to an old (AC'97
> ?), case Front Panel Audio panel.
>
> The motherboard is an "all in one" Asrock ALIVEN56G-VSTA/M/ASR with 6 x
> 3.5mm jacks on the ATX block of connectors.
> The case front block of plug-holes only has 2 x 3.5mm jacks for Mic. and
> Headphones, ...(and 2xUSB and a 1394a firewire port)
>
> Obviously I can't, (and don't want to), make use of "High Definition" Audio,
> (there's not enough
> plug holes on the case front), but, I should be able to connect
> microphone, and stereo headphone case front fly lead tails ?.
>
> ...as usual - only part of the required information is in the motherboard
> (Asrock) "manual" :-
> <quote>
> 1. High definition Audio supports Jack Sensing, but the panel wire on the
> chassis must support HDA to function correctly. Please follow the
> instruction in our manual and chassis manual to instlal your system.
> (that's the bit I don't want and can't use of course).
> 2. If you use AC'97 audio panel, please install it to the front panel audio
> header as below:
> A. Connect Mic_IN (MIC) to MIC2_L.
> B. Connect Audio_R (RIN) to OUT2_R and Audio_L (LIN) to OUT2_L.
> C. Connect Ground (GND) to Ground (GND).
> D. MIC_RET and OUT_RET are for HD audio panel only. You don't need to
> connect them for AC'97 audio panel.
> E. Enter BIOS Setup Uitility. Enter Advanced Settings, and then select
> chipset Configuration. Set the Front Panel Control option from [Auto] to
> [Enabled].
> F. Enter Windows system. Click the icon on the lower right handtaskbar to
> enter Realtek HD Audio Manager. Click "Audio I/O", select "Connector
> Settings, choose "Disable front panel jack detection", and save the change
> by clicking "OK".
> <end quote>
>
> Now for the fun part:
> Motherboard - Front Panel Audio Header (9-pin HD_AUDIO1)
>
> Pins:
> 246x10 (x position blank / "key", or no pin if you like)
> 13579 (or should that be a 8 where the 9 is, ..and a 9 where I've put
> the 10 ? :-( ...I'll leave it as it is !
>
> Pin 1. MIC2_L
> Pin 2. GND
> Pin 3. MIC2_R
> Pin 4. PRESENCE #
> Pin 5. OUT2_R
> Pin 6. MIC2_RET
> Pin 7. J_SENSE
> Pin 8. no pin
> Pin 9. OUT2_L
> Pin 10. OUT_RET
>
> AC'97 from case front panel tails:-
> Gnd
> MIC-VCC
> MIC-IN
> LINE-OUT-L
> LINE-OUT-R
> LINE-IN-L
> LINE-IN-R
>
> ...anyhooo after riduculous amounts of time scouring the web, I propose :-
> tail MIC-IN connected to pin 1. MIC2_L
> tail GND connected to pin 2. GND
> tail LINE-IN-R connected to pin 5. OUT2_R
> tail LINE-IN-L ocnnected to pin 9. OUT2_L
>
> ...so does MIC-VCC (bias) need to be connected anywhere ?
> ...and LINE-OUT-L and LINE-OUT-R seem to have nowhere to go.
>
> Any thoughts MOS appreciated.
>
> TIA
>
> regards, Richard
>

Looking at the motherboard manual:

http://www.asrock.com/manual/ALiveNF6G-VSTA.pdf

there are five pins of interest.

MIC2_L
MIC2_R
GND
OUT_L
OUT_R

The ground is shared by the two front jacks. Each jack has
three contacts. So that is enough wires to do the job.
The rest of the labeled pins are HDaudio specific and not
needed for an AC97 computer case wiring.

Now, I'll use your computer case signal list, and put the
FP_AUDIO signal name to the right of it.

> Gnd GND
> MIC-VCC MIC2_R <------- bias for electret microphones
> MIC-IN MIC2_L <------- audio signal from microphone
> LINE-OUT-L OUT_L headphone signal from AC97 chip to jack
> LINE-OUT-R OUT_R headphone signal from AC97 chip to jack
> LINE-IN-L (no connection - return not used on HDaudio)
> LINE-IN-R (no connection - return not used on HDaudio)

The problem with the names your computer case is using, is I
cannot tell which of "out" or "in" is the "return" signal. So the
above table is tentative. If you aren't getting the headphones
to work, try moving the OUT_L and OUT_R down two positions in
the above table. One pair or the other, is the actual output,
so one of the pairs should work, and the other give nothing.

The BIOS setting is important, because it prepares the driver
to not expect switch closure jack sensing. Impedance (load)
sensing will have to be used instead. I don't know exactly how
that works - I have some theories, but no tech articles to back
up the theories.

Paul

Oh thank you Paul ..HUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts of praise go out from here to you
:-)
....you are indeed a PC Guru !

I think you've confirmed what I've been pondering, over the Mic VCC bias:-
....(two thirds way down the page - some example Asrock pin-outs)

http://www.driverheaven.net/audio-g...anboy-case.html
....which suggests that Asrock usually wants that Mic. bias tail connected to
Pin3.
but, I don't like uncertainty where 5v? is flying around !

....much thanks for your response.

regards, Richard

RJK wrote:
> Oh thank you Paul ..HUUUUUUUUUUGE amounts of praise go out from here to you
> :-)
> ...you are indeed a PC Guru !
>
> I think you've confirmed what I've been pondering, over the Mic VCC bias:-
> ...(two thirds way down the page - some example Asrock pin-outs)
>
> http://www.driverheaven.net/audio-g...anboy-case.html
> ...which suggests that Asrock usually wants that Mic. bias tail connected to
> Pin3.
> but, I don't like uncertainty where 5v? is flying around !
>
> ...much thanks for your response.
>
> regards, Richard
>

MIC_BIAS is a current limited source of power for electret microphones.
In the past, the MIC_BIAS might be a 5V supply with a 2K ohm resistor in
series. That means the electret can get no more than 2.5mA of current.
You could safely short MIC_BIAS without ever seeing a spark or having
damage.

On an AC'97 header, there was also a pin with a raw 5V supply on it.
That one would be more dangerous and I'd stay away from it. Now, it
may well have a fuse to protect it, or it could even be coming from
a small three terminal 5V regulator, in which case it has thermal
overload protection. On a really cheap motherboard, I'd be more nervous,
as they may have tried to save a few pennies, by not having any protection
at all.

If you go to page 20 here, you can see the old AC'97 header standard.
Pin 3 (MIC_BIAS) is safe. For pin 4, I would make no connection. Pin 4
is typically used, if there was, say, a 2 watt amplifier mounted on
the front panel audio interface PCB, and then pin 4 is a stronger
source of power.

http://web.archive.org/web/20040407...n_guideline.pdf

Previous generation AC'97 header pinout

MIC2 X X AGND
MIC_PWR X X 5V_analog (intended to power headphone amp on front panel)
Line_out_R X X Return_R ( X---X jumper if not used )
NC X
Line_out_L X X Return_L ( X---X jumper if not used )

The next spec in the series, might be something like this. On
page 20, they decide to redefine the AC'97 header. Notice how
they redefined a few pins, which is not always such a
clever thing to do. Page 23 shows the HDaudio pinout, and
the redefinition on page 20 then makes slightly more sense.
(They're trying to retrofit both methods to the same header.)

http://www.formfactors.org/develope...2928604-005.pdf

Now, formfactor documents are written by Intel, and some of
their ideas are copied verbatim into hardware, and others
receive slight modifications from defacto practice. This
is a typical Asus header definition, for a motherboard that
supports a BIOS setting for either AC'97 or HDaudio pinout.
Really, all the HDaudio is doing, is considering the sensing
pins, which are the four extra ones. Because the chips seem
to have impedance sensing (a second way to determine a plug is
inserted), those four pins aren't really that necessary.

AC'97 HDAUDIO

MIC2 X X AGND PORT1_L X X AGND
MIC_PWR X X NC PORT1_R X X Presence#*
Line_out_R X X NC PORT2_R X X Sense1_return*
NC X *Sense_Send X
Line_out_L X X NC PORT2_L X X Sense2_return*

* Part of the HDaudio jack sensing based
on a side-contact switch inside each jack.
Defacto practice is these are optional

The reason the "port1" and "port2" naming convention is used, is
because HDaudio is retaskable. It means you can plug a microphone
into the headphone port, or a headphone into the microphone port,
and the software takes care of the details. All ports have programmable
microphone bias, so an electret can be powered on any port. The power
source can be a tiny bit weaker than the old way of doing it.

Notice that the "Return_R" and "Return_L" is not used in the
new definition. That is because the HDaudio codec has more channels,
and drives the internal Lineout jack directly, without needing to
get a signal from the front audio. Muting is implemented in software,
so the user can control whether plugging in front headphones, causes
Lineout on the back of the computer to be turned off. With the old
way of doing things, you had to connect Line_out_R to Return_R and
Line_out_L to Return_L, to get the rear green Lineout to work.

The only time I have a slight concern with the audio wiring, is for
those computer cases that provide a 2x5 shell with all the wires inserted.
The loose wire method is better, because then it is easier for me to tell
people to just hook up the five necessary wires. If you use a 2x5 shell
and leave all the wires in place, and then connect to an HDaudio motherboard,
it means the sense wires can get hooked to the audio signals. Probably
not deadly, but not that nice either. (Maybe you'd hear more of a click
or pop when plugging in stuff.) The 2x5 shells can be rewired, by
lifting a tab on the shell, and sliding the wire out. But when you do that,
then the next person to use the case won't know what the hell is going on :-)

Just some trivia for future reference,
Paul

DEAR SIR / MADAM

I have (4COREDUAL-SATA2R2.0)Panel, its manual shows the setting for the 9 PINS as the following:

1.MIC2_L
2.GND
3.MIC_R
4.PRESENCE#
5.OUT2_R
6.MIC_RET
7.J_SENSE
8. NO PIN
9.OUT2_L
10.OUT_RET

BUT MY PC CASE HAD THE WIRES NAMED AS THE FOLLOWING:

1.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
2.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
3.MIC_IN ( RED COLOUR)
4.MIC_BIAS ( WHITE COLOUR)
5.SPKOUT_L (WHITE COLOUR)
6.SPKOUT_R (GREEN COLOUR)
7.RETURN_R ( GRAY COLOUR)
8.NO PIN
9.RETURN_L ( WHITE COLOUR)
10. NIL

CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME TO MATCH THOSE NAMED WIRES WITH THE ABOVE SETTING OF MY NEW PANEL WITH MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE?

Ismail Boussi wrote:
> DEAR SIR / MADAM
>
> I have (4COREDUAL-SATA2R2.0)Panel, its manual shows the setting for the 9 PINS as the following:
>
> 1.MIC2_L
> 2.GND
> 3.MIC_R
> 4.PRESENCE#
> 5.OUT2_R
> 6.MIC_RET
> 7.J_SENSE
> 8. NO PIN
> 9.OUT2_L
> 10.OUT_RET
>
> BUT MY PC CASE HAD THE WIRES NAMED AS THE FOLLOWING:
>
> 1.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
> 2.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
> 3.MIC_IN ( RED COLOUR)
> 4.MIC_BIAS ( WHITE COLOUR)
> 5.SPKOUT_L (WHITE COLOUR)
> 6.SPKOUT_R (GREEN COLOUR)
> 7.RETURN_R ( GRAY COLOUR)
> 8.NO PIN
> 9.RETURN_L ( WHITE COLOUR)
> 10. NIL
>
> CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME TO MATCH THOSE NAMED WIRES WITH THE ABOVE SETTING OF MY NEW PANEL WITH MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE?

This is what is in the Asrock manual.

MIC2_L X X GND
MIC2_R X X PRESENCE#
OUT2_R X X MIC_RET
J_Sense X <--- no pin
OUT2_L X X OUT_RET

The J_Sense, MIC_RET, and OUT_RET are part of plug sensing,
and are not required or supported on the majority of computer
cases. The PRESENCE# pin, when a wire is connected to it, can
be used to indicate that the other three wires are valid. You
do not need to make a connection to any of them. Thus, this is
what the Asrock header really looks like. These are the pins that
make the audio.

MIC2_L X X GND
MIC2_R X X
OUT2_R X X
X <--- no pin
OUT2_L X X

The wires would connect to the pins, like this.

MIC_IN ----- MIC2_L X X GND ----- GND wire
MIC_BIAS --- MIC2_R X X
SPKOUT_R --- OUT2_R X X
X <--- no pin
SPKOUT_L --- OUT2_L X X

One problem is, you have a left-over GND wire. First, try
the microphone and headphone jack, with that extra GND wire
disconnected. If either the microphone or headphone don't work,
it is possible the GND wire is necessary. In that case, you may
have to use a GND pin on a USB header, to get the ground connection.
*Be very careful* to select a GND pin, and not a power pin on
the USB header.

The RETURN_R and RETURN_L are not needed, and can be left
disconnected. They were only required with AC'97 CODEC chips,
and your motherboard has an HDaudio chip. The HDaudio chip
has enough output channels, that the RETURN function is not
needed.

When you install the Realtek audio driver, reboot the computer,
and open the audio control panel stuff, there is a setting that
must be modified. The Asrock manual mentions

"Disable front panel jack detection"

and you must click the box on the control panel. When you
do that, the result should be, when a headphones is plugged
into the front of the computer, the Audio Wizard should pop up,
and ask you what was just plugged in. That means it is working
properly. If the audio software does not respond when a headphones
is plugged in, check the "Disable front panel jack detection" setting.

Paul

Sorry, but it looks like your MB and panel are not designed to be
connected. Please contact the case manufacturer regarding your issue.
Windows XP cannot be configured to correct your problem.

Ismail wrote:
> DEAR SIR / MADAM
>
> I have (4COREDUAL-SATA2R2.0)Panel, its manual shows the setting for the 9 PINS as the following:
>
> 1.MIC2_L
> 2.GND
> 3.MIC_R
> 4.PRESENCE#
> 5.OUT2_R
> 6.MIC_RET
> 7.J_SENSE
> 8. NO PIN
> 9.OUT2_L
> 10.OUT_RET
>
> BUT MY PC CASE HAD THE WIRES NAMED AS THE FOLLOWING:
>
> 1.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
> 2.GND ( BLACK COLOUR)
> 3.MIC_IN ( RED COLOUR)
> 4.MIC_BIAS ( WHITE COLOUR)
> 5.SPKOUT_L (WHITE COLOUR)
> 6.SPKOUT_R (GREEN COLOUR)
> 7.RETURN_R ( GRAY COLOUR)
> 8.NO PIN
> 9.RETURN_L ( WHITE COLOUR)
> 10. NIL
>
> CAN YOU PLEASE HELP ME TO MATCH THOSE NAMED WIRES WITH THE ABOVE SETTING OF MY NEW PANEL WITH MANY THANKS IN ADVANCE?