Slow death of a PC

Hi everyone,

My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
cancer.
Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
power.
After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
and stopped then totally.

I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
the PC. All was left in the PC was:
1) Power supply
2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
3) 2 x DDR RAM

Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
starts turning,
the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
the plug off.

I am sure of:
1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
nothing happened.
3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
and still nothing happened.

I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
motherboard.
I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
a damaged motherboard or CPU?

I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
JJ

jidan1@hotmail.com wrote

> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring
> out what part is damaged so that I can buy a new part.

> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might call
> it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from cancer.

You can get that effect with bad caps on the motherboard.

> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when
> it suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor
> shut off and the system stopped working, but the power leds
> harddisks,CDs, were still on power.

Likely the cpu stopped.

> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again.
> For the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed
> these strange shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days
> ago, this time pulling the plug off and on again didnt help at
> all. I left the PC alone for 4 days and tried today again. VERY
> strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour and stopped then totally.

> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential
> parts of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> 1) Power supply
> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card)
> with a Pentium 4 CPU, and
> 3) 2 x DDR RAM

> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power
> supply fan starts turning, the power and harddisk led are turned
> on, but the screen is black. I also noticed that the power switch
> is not working, hence I can not turn the PC off by pressing the
> ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull the plug off.

Thats all evidence that the cpu isnt running anymore, particularly
the power switch effect since its a contact closure that the cpu
decides what to do about based on how long is held in etc.

> I am sure of:
> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each
> one seperatly and still nothing happened.
> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a
> different power supply and still nothing happened.

> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the motherboard.

Yes, but cpus dont fail very often and not normally like that.

> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part,
> the CPU or the motherboard so that I can replace it?

Almost certainly the motherboard. Check for bad caps. Those are
the usually blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick
up vertically from the motherboard. The tops should be flat. If any
are bulging or leaking, you've got the classic bad caps failure.

> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described
> are truly that of a damaged motherboard or CPU?

Motherboard.

> I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.

Try running the motherboard loose on the desktop, you
can get an intermittent short to case and running it lose
on the desktop is the best test for that. Unlikely thats
the problem tho, its much more likely to be bad caps.

jidan1@hotmail.com wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
> is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
> cancer.
> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
> froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
> system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
> power.
> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
> moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
> plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
> and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
> and stopped then totally.
>
> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
> the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> 1) Power supply
> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
> 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>
> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
> starts turning,
> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
> the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
> the plug off.
>
> I am sure of:
> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
> nothing happened.
> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
> and still nothing happened.
>
> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
> motherboard.

or cmos battery.

> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
> or the motherboard so that I can replace it?

how can we know? IMLE its usually the mobo.


> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
> a damaged motherboard or CPU?

sure. or cmos battery V too low.


NT

jidan1@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
> is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
> cancer.
> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it
> suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut
> off and the system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs,
> were still on power.
> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For
> the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
> plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4
> days and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1
> hour and stopped then totally.
>
> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts
> of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> 1) Power supply
> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and
> . 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>
> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
> starts turning,
> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not
> turn the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to
> pull the plug off.
>
> I am sure of:
> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
> nothing happened.
> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
> and still nothing happened.
>
> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
> motherboard.
> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
> or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
> a damaged motherboard or CPU?
>
> I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
> JJ

My informed guess would be that your motherboard has failing/failed
capacitors. The symptoms you describe sound like one of the many ways that
this can manifest.

You can do a visual check of the capacitors (the cylindrical components that
stand on end, approx 10-15mm in diameter and maybe 15-30mm tall) on the
mobo, mainly around the CPU socket. Sometimes, but not always, failing
capacitors show visual signs that they're failing, mainly bulging of the top
and/or leakage of the contents. However, regardless of whether yours show
visual signs or not, my money would be on them as being the problem.
--
Shaun.

Rod Speed schrieb:

> jidan1@hotmail.com wrote
>
> > My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring
> > out what part is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
>
> > The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might call
> > it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from cancer.
>
> You can get that effect with bad caps on the motherboard.
>
> > Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when
> > it suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor
> > shut off and the system stopped working, but the power leds
> > harddisks,CDs, were still on power.
>
> Likely the cpu stopped.
>
> > After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again.
> > For the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed
> > these strange shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days
> > ago, this time pulling the plug off and on again didnt help at
> > all. I left the PC alone for 4 days and tried today again. VERY
> > strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour and stopped then totally.
>
> > I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential
> > parts of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> > 1) Power supply
> > 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card)
> > with a Pentium 4 CPU, and
> > 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>
> > Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power
> > supply fan starts turning, the power and harddisk led are turned
> > on, but the screen is black. I also noticed that the power switch
> > is not working, hence I can not turn the PC off by pressing the
> > ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull the plug off.
>
> Thats all evidence that the cpu isnt running anymore, particularly
> the power switch effect since its a contact closure that the cpu
> decides what to do about based on how long is held in etc.
>
> > I am sure of:
> > 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> > 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each
> > one seperatly and still nothing happened.
> > 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a
> > different power supply and still nothing happened.
>
> > I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the motherboard.
>
> Yes, but cpus dont fail very often and not normally like that.
>
> > I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part,
> > the CPU or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
>
> Almost certainly the motherboard. Check for bad caps. Those are
> the usually blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick
> up vertically from the motherboard. The tops should be flat. If any
> are bulging or leaking, you've got the classic bad caps failure.
>
> > And I would like to know if the symptoms I described
> > are truly that of a damaged motherboard or CPU?
>
> Motherboard.
>
> > I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
>
> Try running the motherboard loose on the desktop, you
> can get an intermittent short to case and running it lose
> on the desktop is the best test for that. Unlikely thats
> the problem tho, its much more likely to be bad caps.

Hmm, very interesting.
I checked the caps, they all look fine to me.
BTW, I forgot to mention that the keyboard lights are off when I switch
the PC ON while the power leds and fans are on. Also there is no
beeping sound.
You still think its the motherboard?

jidan1@hotmail.com wrote
> Rod Speed wrote
>> jidan1@hotmail.com wrote

>>> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring
>>> out what part is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
>>
>>> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you
>>> might call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying
>>> slowly from cancer.
>>
>> You can get that effect with bad caps on the motherboard.
>>
>>> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when
>>> it suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor
>>> shut off and the system stopped working, but the power leds
>>> harddisks,CDs, were still on power.
>>
>> Likely the cpu stopped.
>>
>>> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again.
>>> For the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed
>>> these strange shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days
>>> ago, this time pulling the plug off and on again didnt help at
>>> all. I left the PC alone for 4 days and tried today again. VERY
>>> strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour and stopped then totally.
>>
>>> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential
>>> parts of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
>>> 1) Power supply
>>> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card)
>>> with a Pentium 4 CPU, and
>>> 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>>
>>> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power
>>> supply fan starts turning, the power and harddisk led are turned
>>> on, but the screen is black. I also noticed that the power switch
>>> is not working, hence I can not turn the PC off by pressing the
>>> ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull the plug off.
>>
>> Thats all evidence that the cpu isnt running anymore, particularly
>> the power switch effect since its a contact closure that the cpu
>> decides what to do about based on how long is held in etc.
>>
>>> I am sure of:
>>> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
>>> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each
>>> one seperatly and still nothing happened.
>>> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a
>>> different power supply and still nothing happened.
>>
>>> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
>>> motherboard.
>>
>> Yes, but cpus dont fail very often and not normally like that.
>>
>>> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part,
>>> the CPU or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
>>
>> Almost certainly the motherboard. Check for bad caps. Those are
>> the usually blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick
>> up vertically from the motherboard. The tops should be flat. If any
>> are bulging or leaking, you've got the classic bad caps failure.
>>
>>> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described
>>> are truly that of a damaged motherboard or CPU?
>>
>> Motherboard.
>>
>>> I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
>>
>> Try running the motherboard loose on the desktop, you
>> can get an intermittent short to case and running it lose
>> on the desktop is the best test for that. Unlikely thats
>> the problem tho, its much more likely to be bad caps.

> Hmm, very interesting.
> I checked the caps, they all look fine to me.
> BTW, I forgot to mention that the keyboard lights are off when
> I switch the PC ON while the power leds and fans are on.

Doesnt mean much, most likely just the default state.

> Also there is no beeping sound.

Thats normal if it POSTS fine and then dies after that.

> You still think its the motherboard?

Yep, mainly because cpus dont die that often unless they are severely
abused and you wouldnt normally get those systems with a dead cpu.

Not all bad caps look bad.

meow2222@care2.com wrote:
> jidan1@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> Hi everyone,
>>
>> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what
>> part is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
>> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
>> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly
>> from cancer.
>> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it
>> suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut
>> off and the system stopped working, but the power leds
>> harddisks,CDs, were still on power.
>> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For
>> the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
>> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling
>> the plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for
>> 4 days and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for
>> 1 hour and stopped then totally.
>>
>> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts
>> of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
>> 1) Power supply
>> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU,
>> and . 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>>
>> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply
>> fan starts turning,
>> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
>> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not
>> turn the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have
>> to pull the plug off.
>>
>> I am sure of:
>> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
>> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and
>> still nothing happened.
>> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
>> and still nothing happened.
>>
>> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
>> motherboard.

> or cmos battery.

Doesnt normally produce symptoms like that, particular death after its started.

>> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
>> or the motherboard so that I can replace it?

> how can we know? IMLE its usually the mobo.

>> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that
>> of a damaged motherboard or CPU?

> sure. or cmos battery V too low.

See above.

<jidan1@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1155601779.882354.5340@i42g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Hi everyone,
>
> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
> is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
> cancer.
> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
> froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
> system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
> power.
> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
> moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
> plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
> and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
> and stopped then totally.
>
> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
> the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> 1) Power supply
> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
> 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>
> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
> starts turning,
> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
> the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
> the plug off.
>
> I am sure of:
> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and still
> nothing happened.
> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
> and still nothing happened.
>
> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
> motherboard.
> I would like to know which one you think is the damaged part, the CPU
> or the motherboard so that I can replace it?
> And I would like to know if the symptoms I described are truly that of
> a damaged motherboard or CPU?
>
> I am thankfull for ANY advice on this matter.
> JJ
>

Just a suggestion as this worked for me. The main 20 pin connector from PSU
to MoBo.......remove it and using a very small screwdriver, close up the
sockets in the connector.

jidan1@hotmail.com wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what part
> is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly from
> cancer.
> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it suddenly
> froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut off and the
> system stopped working, but the power leds harddisks,CDs, were still on
> power.
> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For the
> moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling the
> plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for 4 days
> and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for 1 hour
> and stopped then totally.
>
> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts of
> the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> 1) Power supply
> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU, and .
> 3) 2 x DDR RAM
>
> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply fan
> starts turning,
> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not turn
> the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have to pull
> the plug off.

Did it start with the initial display taking a bit longer each time,
over the past weeks ?

Do the capacitors (long plastic covered cylinders usually with metallic
tops) look bulged at the top or even have a honey looking crust ?

If this is the case then it's time to look around for a replacement
motherboard. Some of these boards can be had for little money but check
that the board you're buying is not on its way out also!



Richard.



--
Cust. - "Fine salmon in the rivers."
Will Hay - "Grouse on the moors."
Cust. - "Deer in the hills."
Will Hay - "Ah! but cheaper in the towns!"

Rod Speed wrote:
> meow2222@care2.com wrote:
> > jidan1@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >> Hi everyone,
> >>
> >> My PC is not working anymore and I need help in figuring out what
> >> part is damaged so that I can buy a new part.
> >> The VERY very strange thing is that it happened graudually, you might
> >> call it slow death of a PC. I compare it to a person dying slowly
> >> from cancer.
> >> Everything started 2 weeks ago, I was working on my PC when it
> >> suddenly froze/shut-off. By froze/shutt-off, I mean the monitor shut
> >> off and the system stopped working, but the power leds
> >> harddisks,CDs, were still on power.
> >> After I pull the plug out and put in again, the PC works again. For
> >> the moment I was just glad it worked. As days passed these strange
> >> shut-offs happened more often, until 3 days ago, this time pulling
> >> the plug off and on again didnt help at all. I left the PC alone for
> >> 4 days and tried today again. VERY strangely it worked, but only for
> >> 1 hour and stopped then totally.
> >>
> >> I started the problem-diagnostic by removing all non-essential parts
> >> of the PC. All was left in the PC was:
> >> 1) Power supply
> >> 2) Motherboard( with on-board graphic card) with a Pentium 4 CPU,
> >> and . 3) 2 x DDR RAM
> >>
> >> Now, this is what happens when I press the ON switch: power supply
> >> fan starts turning,
> >> the power and harddisk led are turned on, but the screen is black. I
> >> also noticed that the power switch is not working, hence I can not
> >> turn the PC off by pressing the ON/OFF switch again, I rather have
> >> to pull the plug off.
> >>
> >> I am sure of:
> >> 1) Its not the monitor, because It worked somewhere else.
> >> 2) Its not the DDR, because I tried using each one seperatly and
> >> still nothing happened.
> >> 3) Its not the power supply, because I tried a different power supply
> >> and still nothing happened.
> >>
> >> I came to the conculsion that it must be either the CPU or the
> >> motherboard.
>
> > or cmos battery.
>
> Doesnt normally produce symptoms like that, particular death after its started.

Not after started no, but it does produce failure to post. Given the
high failure rate of win and pc hardware I would not automatically
assume the 2 are due to the same problem. They may or may not be, and
checking the cmos battery is a quick simple easy cheap thing to do,
hence its worth a check. To ignore it would not be the best course of
action imho, I've seen many PCs fall over like this due to low cmos
batteries.


NT