Silent PC: Cooler for Athlon Thunderbird 1Ghz, cooling HDD

Hi,
I want to make my old computer as silent as possible. I've already
replaced cheap fan on chipset with Zalman radiator. Now it's time to
replace standard cooler on processor with something less noisy (standard
fan on processor runs at 5500RPM and makes me sick).

Can anyone tell me how can I cool Athlon Thunderbird 1Ghz? I'd like it
to be as silent as possible. I thought about Thermaltake Sonictower, but
I don't know if it will be enough (without additional 12cm fan attached
to it). Not to mention that it's quite big and I don't know if it'll fit
on my Asus A7V133 motherboard . Or perhaps Sonictower would be an
overkill? I don't really know how much heat comes out from this
processor. What kind of cooling does it need? It has to be able to run
24h/day, be silent and not to expensive . I'd also prefer not to use
any watercooling.

Another thing I wanted to ask you is cooling the HDD. Is it necessary?
My computer works around the clock and has 2 HDDs: 30GB IBM and 160GB
WD. I've never had any problems with them but perhaps I was just lucky (?).

regards
t47

Looked into cooling my old 1000 Thunderbird a few months back. After
adding all the costs for a silent powersupply, decent fans, solid case
and sound proofing materials it was very expensive.

Finally brought a P3 933 Compaq SFF computer from ebay. Its runs
great 24/7 as a file server. It hardly makes a sound unless you run
the CPU at 100% for a long time then it does make the standard noises.

Only cost £60.00 from ebay. Currently running for 4 weeks constantly
sharing torrents and downloading from the newsgroups.

Rich

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:00:37 +0100, Towarzysz 47 <madzio@life.pl>
wrote:

>Hi,
>I want to make my old computer as silent as possible. I've already
>replaced cheap fan on chipset with Zalman radiator. Now it's time to
>replace standard cooler on processor with something less noisy (standard
>fan on processor runs at 5500RPM and makes me sick).
>
>Can anyone tell me how can I cool Athlon Thunderbird 1Ghz? I'd like it
>to be as silent as possible. I thought about Thermaltake Sonictower, but
>I don't know if it will be enough (without additional 12cm fan attached
>to it). Not to mention that it's quite big and I don't know if it'll fit
>on my Asus A7V133 motherboard . Or perhaps Sonictower would be an
>overkill? I don't really know how much heat comes out from this
>processor. What kind of cooling does it need? It has to be able to run
>24h/day, be silent and not to expensive . I'd also prefer not to use
>any watercooling.
>
>Another thing I wanted to ask you is cooling the HDD. Is it necessary?
>My computer works around the clock and has 2 HDDs: 30GB IBM and 160GB
>WD. I've never had any problems with them but perhaps I was just lucky (?).
>
>regards
>t47



---
avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean.
Virus Database (VPS): 0610-2, 10/03/2006
Tested on: 13/03/2006 21:20:06
avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2005 ALWIL Software.
http://www.avast.com

On Mon, 13 Mar 2006 20:00:37 +0100, Towarzysz 47
<madzio@life.pl> wrote:

>Hi,
>I want to make my old computer as silent as possible. I've already
>replaced cheap fan on chipset with Zalman radiator. Now it's time to
>replace standard cooler on processor with something less noisy (standard
>fan on processor runs at 5500RPM and makes me sick).
>
>Can anyone tell me how can I cool Athlon Thunderbird 1Ghz? I'd like it
>to be as silent as possible. I thought about Thermaltake Sonictower, but
>I don't know if it will be enough (without additional 12cm fan attached
>to it). Not to mention that it's quite big and I don't know if it'll fit
>on my Asus A7V133 motherboard . Or perhaps Sonictower would be an
>overkill? I don't really know how much heat comes out from this
>processor. What kind of cooling does it need? It has to be able to run
>24h/day, be silent and not to expensive . I'd also prefer not to use
>any watercooling.

It's going to need more cooling than a P3 would, but the
Sonictower (as most Thermaltake products) is somewhat low
quality and yet still overkill.

You need a basic heatsink only-

Copper baseplate if not all copper
Accepts 80mm (x 25mm tall) fan
If it doesn't come with a sufficiently low RPM fan, you'll
have to buy your own (very commonly necessary). Assuming
your case has reasonable cooling, a ~ 2000 RPM fan should be
plenty, might even be possible to undervolt for even more
noise reduction. Having a large and thick fan is key for
noise reduction, to allow enough airflow without high RPM.

Here is an example,
http://www.newegg.com/product/Produ...N82E16835150039
though it's included fan is slightly faster than optimal for
your CPU, you could use a method of fan speed reduction or
just replace the fan.

Mainly the example was to show a basic low-cost aluminum
heatsink that has a plain old 80x25 fan on top. Some are
better in that they have a copper slab on the bottom instead
of the tiny circular insert that one does, but try to avoid
heatsinks that look similar but are all-aluminum on the
bottom as copper is very good for removing heat from the
open (no heatspreader) cored Athlons.


Water cooling is not quieter in most cases. With a passive
radiator, the pump must be noisier for higher flow rate or
with when there's a fan on the radiator, it is typically on
the wall of the case or external where the noise can be
heard. A fan on a heatsink doesn't have to be AS loud as
the noise from a water-cooled PC. Many people suggest
otherwise because they never had an optimally set up system,
moved directly from poor heatsinks with high RPM fans to
water cooling without knowing there was another alternative.

Plus, water cooling doesn't eliminate having a fan about
where the CPU fan would've been, as the northbridge and
power regulation circuit on the motherboard need some
airflow too, typically more than a low-RPM PSU exhaust fan
will provide for any Athlon era or newer system.


>
>Another thing I wanted to ask you is cooling the HDD. Is it necessary?

Yes in the strictest sense, a hard drive needs airflow to
cool it. In some cases with lots of drives, a fan in front
of the HDD cage can be necessary, but in most cases with
reasonably good rear exhaust and a large unobstructed
passive front in take area, it is enough so long as a large
% of the incoming air flows across the drives, and of course
the drives are not stacked directly atop each other which
prevents much if any flow between them. In a passive setup,
ambient air temp matters more too, but in a typical room (~
25C) environment it can work fine for typical modern 7K2 RPm
drive.


>My computer works around the clock and has 2 HDDs: 30GB IBM and 160GB
>WD. I've never had any problems with them but perhaps I was just lucky (?).


All drives fail eventually. Playing odds, you should get
at least 3 or 4 years out of both of them, it would be
unexpected to have them fail providing they stay cool enough
and have decent power, not subject to power surges or rough
treatment (like shipping or installation damage). Mainly
when targeting lowest noise systems, the importance becomes
controlling where the airflow is, that if you only have 30
cfm moving through a case, it should mostly flow through the
HDD rack, not in the side and rear holes and all the little
gaps everywhere too. Ideal airflow is in the bottom front
and out the top and mid-area rear. If you can't get fan RPM
sufficiently low enough for low noise while still keeping
system parts cool, it is often quieter to add another low
RPM fan rather than significant RPM increase of existing
fans.

Rich napisał(a):
> Looked into cooling my old 1000 Thunderbird a few months back. After
> adding all the costs for a silent powersupply, decent fans, solid case
> and sound proofing materials it was very expensive.

I already have everything but silent processor cooler so it'll be
cheaper to buy one cooler than whole new rig.

t47

kony napisał(a):
> It's going to need more cooling than a P3 would, but the
> Sonictower (as most Thermaltake products) is somewhat low
> quality and yet still overkill.

Ok - Thermaltake goes out of the equasion.

> You need a basic heatsink only

Would Arctic Cooling - Copper Silent 2 Thermal Control Rev. 2 be good?
It's cheap, it has big slow fan (1400-2800rpm) and it's supposed to be
silent.
I plan on installing v.slow 8 or 12cm fan to move the air inside just a
bit to avoid overheating northbridge etc.

thanks a lot for your help.

t47

On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 18:50:55 +0100, Towarzysz 47
<madzio@life.pl> wrote:

>kony napisa?(a):
>> It's going to need more cooling than a P3 would, but the
>> Sonictower (as most Thermaltake products) is somewhat low
>> quality and yet still overkill.
>
>Ok - Thermaltake goes out of the equasion.
>
>> You need a basic heatsink only
>
>Would Arctic Cooling - Copper Silent 2 Thermal Control Rev. 2 be good?
>It's cheap, it has big slow fan (1400-2800rpm) and it's supposed to be
>silent.

Avoid Arctic Cooling products because they use very low
quality fans. Ideally the heatsink you chose would use a
standard 80 x25 mm fan, so not only is it easy to replace IF
the included fan is poor, but also it leaves a lot of
options for finding (or you might already have...) a
different fan at reasonable cost. On the other hand, if you
only needed a couple years use out of it and didn't mind
possibly relubing the fan after a year or so, the Arctic
Cooling 'sink might suffice. I always think longer term
though and would tend to suggest something with many years
life expectancy.


>I plan on installing v.slow 8 or 12cm fan to move the air inside just a
>bit to avoid overheating northbridge etc.

I don't recall (if you ever mentioned) what motherboard you
have, but the typical board for a 1GHz Athlon, especially
with it's low 100 or 133MHz (DDR200/266) FSB speed, should
not need elaborate cooling for the northbridge. Presuming
the CPU socket is fairly near the northbridge, and a large
heatsink on the CPU with large 80x25mm fan, it is likely
enough airflow to cool the northbridge in all but the worse
environments.

kony napisał(a):
> Avoid Arctic Cooling products because they use very low
> quality fans. Ideally the heatsink you chose would use a
> standard 80 x25 mm fan, so not only is it easy to replace IF
> the included fan is poor, but also it leaves a lot of
> options for finding (or you might already have...) a
> different fan at reasonable cost. On the other hand, if you
> only needed a couple years use out of it and didn't mind
> possibly relubing the fan after a year or so, the Arctic
> Cooling 'sink might suffice. I always think longer term
> though and would tend to suggest something with many years
> life expectancy.

Well - I do have to check on my fans every few weeks now. When they
start to make more noise than usual I just clean them from dust and put
some sort of oil inside. And it helps for another few weeks. They're
rather low quality fans, but still it's hard to believe (at least for
me) that some fans can go for years without any maintenance.

I looked through auctions and found SPIRE - WhisperRock V (SPA04S4-U).
It has 8cm fan, so replacing it (if necessary) will not be a problem.
http://photos.allegro.pl/photos/ory...920379/92037981
That's how it looks.
It is supposed to have copper core. I haven't seen any full-copper
radiator for socket A with 8cm fan in reasonable price. All I found were
almost as expensive as Scytches (>$30).
Could you give me an example of good, silent 8cm fan?

>> I plan on installing v.slow 8 or 12cm fan to move the air inside just a
>> bit to avoid overheating northbridge etc.
>
> I don't recall (if you ever mentioned) what motherboard you
> have, but the typical board for a 1GHz Athlon, especially
> with it's low 100 or 133MHz (DDR200/266) FSB speed, should
> not need elaborate cooling for the northbridge. Presuming
> the CPU socket is fairly near the northbridge, and a large
> heatsink on the CPU with large 80x25mm fan, it is likely
> enough airflow to cool the northbridge in all but the worse
> environments.

I've Asus A7V-133 motherboard. There was little noisy fan on northbridge
which I've already replaced with Zalman radiator. Now the temperatures
are 57C on CPU and 27C on MB (I wonder where on MB?). CPU fan runs at
>5500rpm, there's also 8cm fan near and 12cm fan in Chieftec psu. Maybe
when I'll replace cooler on CPU temp. will drop under 50C and 8cm fan in
the case won't be necessary. But still I'm not convinced, because when
that system worked in a cheap case without additional 8cm fan CPU
temperature was never below 70C (usually ~75C) and sometimes reached
even 81C. Well... maybe current cooler is really THAT bad ;-).

T47

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 14:33:01 +0100, Towarzysz 47
<madzio@life.pl> wrote:

>kony napisa?(a):
>> Avoid Arctic Cooling products because they use very low
>> quality fans. Ideally the heatsink you chose would use a
>> standard 80 x25 mm fan, so not only is it easy to replace IF
>> the included fan is poor, but also it leaves a lot of
>> options for finding (or you might already have...) a
>> different fan at reasonable cost. On the other hand, if you
>> only needed a couple years use out of it and didn't mind
>> possibly relubing the fan after a year or so, the Arctic
>> Cooling 'sink might suffice. I always think longer term
>> though and would tend to suggest something with many years
>> life expectancy.
>
>Well - I do have to check on my fans every few weeks now. When they
>start to make more noise than usual I just clean them from dust and put
>some sort of oil inside. And it helps for another few weeks. They're
>rather low quality fans, but still it's hard to believe (at least for
>me) that some fans can go for years without any maintenance.

Try higher viscosity oil, much thicker. However that is
only for low or medium quality sleeve bearing fans. High
quality sleeve bearing fans or dual ball bearing fans can
easily run for several years, even over a decade without
problem.

Some people prefer sleeve bearing fans because they lack the
high pitched bearing noise of the ball bearing counterparts.
It is a more significant different at moderate or high RPM
than at low RPM, but at low RPM the sleeve bearing fans'
lifespan also increases providing they are not horrible
quality and oriented correctly (vertically, sleeve bearing
fans are never supposed to be mounted non-vertically).



>
>I looked through auctions and found SPIRE - WhisperRock V (SPA04S4-U).
>It has 8cm fan, so replacing it (if necessary) will not be a problem.
>http://photos.allegro.pl/photos/ory...920379/92037981
>That's how it looks.
>It is supposed to have copper core. I haven't seen any full-copper
>radiator for socket A with 8cm fan in reasonable price.

I wouldn't worry much about a full copper radiator, it's not
really necessary for a 1GHz CPU. Maybe if you were trying
to get the last 15MHz out of it with air-cooling that would
help, but mainly any copper at all on the bottom, above the
core is enough for a 1GHz Athlon. Entirely aluminum 'sinks
would be moderately adequate as well but with so many 'sinks
having copper baseplates, you might as well take advantage
of the work that was necessary for the hotter CPUs, and the
better than heat is removed the more accomodating it'll be
to a lower speed fan.

>All I found were
>almost as expensive as Scytches (>$30).
>Could you give me an example of good, silent 8cm fan?

Any of the major name-brands (Panaflo, NMB, Papst, Delta,
Sunon, et al, at RPM below 2400. 2400 isn't bad either,
would be an acceptible noise level to the typical user in a
normal environment but sometimes those obsessed with low
noise have already taken other steps to reduce the rest of
their environmental noise and for those people, a 2400 RPM
fan would still be clearly audible but still deemed "low"
noise.

Many heatsinks that start out with 80x25 mm fans have fans
that are higher rpm than you need. This is why it helps to
buy another fan or use some method of fan speed reduction on
the present fan.



>
>>> I plan on installing v.slow 8 or 12cm fan to move the air inside just a
>>> bit to avoid overheating northbridge etc.
>>
>> I don't recall (if you ever mentioned) what motherboard you
>> have, but the typical board for a 1GHz Athlon, especially
>> with it's low 100 or 133MHz (DDR200/266) FSB speed, should
>> not need elaborate cooling for the northbridge. Presuming
>> the CPU socket is fairly near the northbridge, and a large
>> heatsink on the CPU with large 80x25mm fan, it is likely
>> enough airflow to cool the northbridge in all but the worse
>> environments.
>
>I've Asus A7V-133 motherboard. There was little noisy fan on northbridge
>which I've already replaced with Zalman radiator. Now the temperatures
>are 57C on CPU and 27C on MB (I wonder where on MB?). CPU fan runs at
> >5500rpm, there's also 8cm fan near and 12cm fan in Chieftec psu. Maybe
>when I'll replace cooler on CPU temp. will drop under 50C and 8cm fan in
>the case won't be necessary.

If that case fan is too loud, you can try undervolting it or
replacing it too. The best way to keep noise low is to use
more than one very low RPM fan, rather than having fewer
fans that need to run at higher RPM to move enough air.
Ideally all fans in the system would run under 1800 RPM,
though very small fans such as those on video cards or
northbridges make that hard to do so it is so common to see
people seeking and using passive 'sinks or larger ones so
the low RPM fans become more suitable.

>But still I'm not convinced, because when
>that system worked in a cheap case without additional 8cm fan CPU
>temperature was never below 70C (usually ~75C) and sometimes reached
>even 81C. Well... maybe current cooler is really THAT bad ;-).

Maybe there is silcone grease that has degraded? Best to
use synthetic grease, it lasts much longer on open core
CPUs.

Have you ever encountered temperature related instability?
Some Asus boards were known to provide CPU temps about 4-6C
above actual temps, it was pretty common. If the temp is
accurate, i'd suspect your case might be impeding the front
(passive?) intake too much, but the first step is obvious
enough, to get the new heatsink on and see how it does.

One other thing about cheap heatsinks- sometimes their base
is a bit rough and if so, think about lapping it some, or at
least rub some grease into it really good before putting it
on.

kony wrote:

I found nice 8cm Papst fan at 1500RPM (Papst 8412 N2GLE). Considering
that I'd use previously mentioned SPIRE - WhisperRock V (SPA04S4-U)
radiator wouldn't 1500RPM be a little to low?
There's also another one: Sharkoon Silent Eagle 1000 which runs at 1000RPM;
and
Noiseblocker ULTRA SILENT S1 OEM 80x80 running at 1500RPM

So the question is how low RPM can I have? Below 2400RPM is fine, but is
below 1500RPM ok too? Or maybe it's too low?
I can of course have additional low-rpm (1000-1500rpm) in the case to
move the air but I don't know if it would be enough.

>> But still I'm not convinced, because when
>> that system worked in a cheap case without additional 8cm fan CPU
>> temperature was never below 70C (usually ~75C) and sometimes reached
>> even 81C. Well... maybe current cooler is really THAT bad ;-).
>
> Maybe there is silcone grease that has degraded? Best to
> use synthetic grease, it lasts much longer on open core
> CPUs.
>
> Have you ever encountered temperature related instability?
> Some Asus boards were known to provide CPU temps about 4-6C
> above actual temps, it was pretty common. If the temp is
> accurate, i'd suspect your case might be impeding the front
> (passive?) intake too much, but the first step is obvious
> enough, to get the new heatsink on and see how it does.

Once fan on cpu cooler stopped. CPU temp reached 101C and Windows just
stopped working, but after 'oiling' the fan it was ok again. 70-80C
didn't seem to have any impact on performance nor stability. However I
don't think it's "healthy" to have it run at 70-80C all the time.

T47

On Tue, 21 Mar 2006 18:27:57 +0100, Towarzysz 47
<madzio@life.pl> wrote:

>kony wrote:
>
>I found nice 8cm Papst fan at 1500RPM (Papst 8412 N2GLE). Considering
>that I'd use previously mentioned SPIRE - WhisperRock V (SPA04S4-U)
>radiator wouldn't 1500RPM be a little to low?

Depends on the ambient temp and case cooling. It is
possible to cool that CPU with such a fan but doesn't leave
a lot of margin. Typically for the lowest speed fans
you'd want a bit better 'sink, but it's been awhile since I
tried to noise-optimize a 1GHz Athlon, and it wasn't with
the WhisperRock so I can't guarantee it.




>There's also another one: Sharkoon Silent Eagle 1000 which runs at 1000RPM;
>and
>Noiseblocker ULTRA SILENT S1 OEM 80x80 running at 1500RPM
>
>So the question is how low RPM can I have? Below 2400RPM is fine, but is
>below 1500RPM ok too? Or maybe it's too low?
>I can of course have additional low-rpm (1000-1500rpm) in the case to
>move the air but I don't know if it would be enough.

Then aim for a little higher, 2100 RPM should be enough
unless your case fan mounts are largely obstructed by
stamped-in grills.




>> Have you ever encountered temperature related instability?
>> Some Asus boards were known to provide CPU temps about 4-6C
>> above actual temps, it was pretty common. If the temp is
>> accurate, i'd suspect your case might be impeding the front
>> (passive?) intake too much, but the first step is obvious
>> enough, to get the new heatsink on and see how it does.
>
>Once fan on cpu cooler stopped. CPU temp reached 101C and Windows just
>stopped working, but after 'oiling' the fan it was ok again. 70-80C
>didn't seem to have any impact on performance nor stability. However I
>don't think it's "healthy" to have it run at 70-80C all the time.
>


yes that is too hot, I'd have expected it to crash around
80C.