Re: On the "Theft" of Microsoft fonts

On Feb 22, 6:34 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
<e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
> This could get interesting. Took a bit of scanning
> but it turns out that Gentoo -- and probably a lot of
> other distros -- offer a package called 'corefonts'.
> This package requires acceptance of an EULA prior to use:
>
> Microsoft TrueType Fonts
> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
> ---------------------------------------------------
>
> IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User
> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
> between you (either an individual or a single entity)
> and Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software
> accompanying this EULA, which includes computer
> software and may include associated media, printed
> materials, and "on-line" or electronic documentation
> ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT" or "SOFTWARE"). By exercising your
> rights to make and use copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
> you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If
> you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may
> not use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>
> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
>
> * Installation and Use. You may install and use an
> unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>
> * Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce
> and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the
> SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each copy shall be a
> true and complete copy, including all copyright and
> trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy
> of this EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not
> be distributed for profit either on a standalone basis
> or included as part of your own product.
>
> [rest snipped for brevity]
>
> Presumably, this suggests that one can in fact steal the
> fonts but it would be very difficult to do so, without
> selling something else bundling them in -- which most
> distros don't bother.
>
> Because Gentoo is offered without profit, there's no problem here.
> I can't say regarding other distros.
>
> (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
>
> --
> #191, ewi...@earthlink.net
> Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
> try our new color changing variant?
>

So why do Linux users condone stealing?

A better question is if Linux is so great, why do Linux users have to
download msttfonts via roundabout ways presented within their
distributions?

The real truth is that Linux users are theifs who believe everything
should be free and Linux itself has such awful programmers that they
can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.

I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.

karla.bonerstein@yahoo.com did eloquently scribble:
> So why do Linux users condone stealing?

> A better question is if Linux is so great, why do Linux users have to
> download msttfonts via roundabout ways presented within their
> distributions?

Because it's the legal way to download them?

> The real truth is that Linux users are theifs who believe everything
> should be free and Linux itself has such awful programmers that they
> can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.

What is this "theif" of which you speak?
If you mean why are linux users thieves...
What has been stolen by linux users? Name some stuff.
ANY stuff.

Now try to say the same about windows users who consistently "steal" (wrong
term, copyright infringement is not and has never been theft) software.
Or... are you going to deny ever having downloaded some piece of software
with a crack to get around shareware or evaluation limitations?

So come on.... What have linux users ever stolen?
--
______________________________________________________________________________
| spike1@freenet.co.uk | |
|Andrew Halliwell BSc(hons)| "The day Microsoft makes something that doesn't |
| in | suck is probably the day they start making |
| Computer science | vacuum cleaners" - Ernst Jan Plugge |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

<karla.bonerstein@yahoo.com> wrote in message > The real truth is that Linux
users are theifs who believe everything should be free and Linux itself has
such awful programmers that they
> can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.
>
> I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
> doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.

Well, that's kind of a broad sweeping statement of Linux people and there
are plenty of Windows people on the Limeware, Bearshare, original Napster,
and whatever else is cool today bandwagon. It's a little like the Pot and
the Kettle really.

Granted, alot of the Linux people always talk about Free Free Free, which at
least to some Luinux people isn't the free they meant. I took a course by
Red Hat a while back and their instructor said when Linux people talk of
free, they mean it more in terms of free speech, not free beer. Or free from
restrictions or caveats.

Unfortunately, because many distros are offered for free and tools are free,
then it does promote a mindset that everything should be free (of charge),
and I've heard both sides make some pretty interesting arguments on why
stealing is OK. My favorites are "I wasn't going ot buy it anyway" or "Its
so bad, they should be glad people play\use it at all."

COLA = Crap Only Linux A**holes

<karla.bonerstein@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172193704.133650.22490@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...
> On Feb 22, 6:34 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
> <e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>> This could get interesting. Took a bit of scanning
>> but it turns out that Gentoo -- and probably a lot of
>> other distros -- offer a package called 'corefonts'.
>> This package requires acceptance of an EULA prior to use:
>>
>> Microsoft TrueType Fonts
>> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User
>> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
>> between you (either an individual or a single entity)
>> and Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software
>> accompanying this EULA, which includes computer
>> software and may include associated media, printed
>> materials, and "on-line" or electronic documentation
>> ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT" or "SOFTWARE"). By exercising your
>> rights to make and use copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
>> you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If
>> you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may
>> not use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>>
>> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
>>
>> * Installation and Use. You may install and use an
>> unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>>
>> * Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce
>> and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the
>> SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each copy shall be a
>> true and complete copy, including all copyright and
>> trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy
>> of this EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not
>> be distributed for profit either on a standalone basis
>> or included as part of your own product.
>>
>> [rest snipped for brevity]
>>
>> Presumably, this suggests that one can in fact steal the
>> fonts but it would be very difficult to do so, without
>> selling something else bundling them in -- which most
>> distros don't bother.
>>
>> Because Gentoo is offered without profit, there's no problem here.
>> I can't say regarding other distros.
>>
>> (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
>>
>> --
>> #191, ewi...@earthlink.net
>> Windows Vista. Because a BSOD is just so 20th century; why not
>> try our new color changing variant?
>>
>
> So why do Linux users condone stealing?
>
> A better question is if Linux is so great, why do Linux users have to
> download msttfonts via roundabout ways presented within their
> distributions?
>
> The real truth is that Linux users are theifs who believe everything
> should be free and Linux itself has such awful programmers that they
> can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.
>
> I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
> doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.
>
>

What, you really think everything install on public sourceware has to
itself also be public sourceware and no proprietaryware could ever be
installed in *NIX? Just because someone who own rights to something
lets you use it for free doesn't mean they surrender their rights to it.

Dale "Mad_Murdock" White wrote:
>
> <karla.bonerstein@yahoo.com> wrote in message > The real truth is that
> Linux users are theifs who believe everything should be free and Linux
> itself has such awful programmers that they
>> can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.
>>
>> I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
>> doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.
>
> Well, that's kind of a broad sweeping statement of Linux people and
> there are plenty of Windows people on the Limeware, Bearshare, original
> Napster, and whatever else is cool today bandwagon. It's a little like
> the Pot and the Kettle really.
>
> Granted, alot of the Linux people always talk about Free Free Free,
> which at least to some Luinux people isn't the free they meant. I took a
> course by Red Hat a while back and their instructor said when Linux
> people talk of free, they mean it more in terms of free speech, not free
> beer. Or free from restrictions or caveats.

Some of us like "free" as in free speech AND free beer.

> Unfortunately, because many distros are offered for free and tools are
> free, then it does promote a mindset that everything should be free (of
> charge), and I've heard both sides make some pretty interesting
> arguments on why stealing is OK. My favorites are "I wasn't going ot buy
> it anyway" or "Its so bad, they should be glad people play\use it at all."

If the programmer wishes it to be free, let it be so. You're not
stealing, you're honoring his wish.

Are you saying that programmers don't have the right to bequeath their
works in any way they so desire?

On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:49:12 -0500, Dale "Mad_Murdock" White wrote:

> I took a course by Red Hat a while back and their instructor said when
> Linux people talk of free, they mean it more in terms of free speech,
> not free beer.

What's wrong with free beer?

> Or free from restrictions or caveats.

I'm against paying for software because price and restrictions seem to go
hand-in-hand, with the restrictions often being well-hidden and the
consumer accused of piracy if he subsequently demands a refund.

It's a rigged game and I refuse to play.

On 22 Feb 2007 17:21:44 -0800, karla.bonerstein@yahoo.com spake
thusly:

>On Feb 22, 6:34 pm, The Ghost In The Machine
><e...@sirius.tg00suus7038.net> wrote:
>> This could get interesting. Took a bit of scanning
>> but it turns out that Gentoo -- and probably a lot of
>> other distros -- offer a package called 'corefonts'.
>> This package requires acceptance of an EULA prior to use:
>>
>> Microsoft TrueType Fonts
>> END-USER LICENSE AGREEMENT FOR MICROSOFT SOFTWARE
>> ---------------------------------------------------
>>
>> IMPORTANT - READ CAREFULLY: This Microsoft End-User
>> License Agreement ("EULA") is a legal agreement
>> between you (either an individual or a single entity)
>> and Microsoft Corporation for the Microsoft software
>> accompanying this EULA, which includes computer
>> software and may include associated media, printed
>> materials, and "on-line" or electronic documentation
>> ("SOFTWARE PRODUCT" or "SOFTWARE"). By exercising your
>> rights to make and use copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT,
>> you agree to be bound by the terms of this EULA. If
>> you do not agree to the terms of this EULA, you may
>> not use the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>>
>> 1. GRANT OF LICENSE. This EULA grants you the following rights:
>>
>> * Installation and Use. You may install and use an
>> unlimited number of copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT.
>>
>> * Reproduction and Distribution. You may reproduce
>> and distribute an unlimited number of copies of the
>> SOFTWARE PRODUCT; provided that each copy shall be a
>> true and complete copy, including all copyright and
>> trademark notices, and shall be accompanied by a copy
>> of this EULA. Copies of the SOFTWARE PRODUCT may not
>> be distributed for profit either on a standalone basis
>> or included as part of your own product.
>>
>> [rest snipped for brevity]
>>
>> Presumably, this suggests that one can in fact steal the
>> fonts but it would be very difficult to do so, without
>> selling something else bundling them in -- which most
>> distros don't bother.
>>
>> Because Gentoo is offered without profit, there's no problem here.
>> I can't say regarding other distros.
>>
>> (Disclaimer: IANAL.)
>>
>
>So why do Linux users condone stealing?

They don't anymore than Windows users do.
>
>A better question is if Linux is so great, why do Linux users have to
>download msttfonts via roundabout ways presented within their
>distributions?

About 10 years ago Microsoft introduced "Core Fonts for the Web".
Basically they not only encouraged web developers to standardize with
them, but they included them with Internet Explorer 4 and all future
versions of Windows. They also included them with IE for the Mac.

So Linux users were left out in the cold while much of the web was
standardizing on these fonts.

First of all, despite popular opinion Microsoft does *not* set the
standards for the Internet. The Internet was never meant to be
compatible with just *one* OS or *one* web browser.

But I digress.....

So some brilliant folks came up with a package that would download
the fonts and extract them from the installer and then install said
fonts.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/corefonts/

This rather awkward method was devised for the very reason cited in
this post. The Microsoft EULA. Said EULA does not permit anyone to
redistribute the fonts outside of the original installer. Therefore
the previously mentioned script was devised to abide by the EULA while
providing Linux users the same access to Microsfot's "Proprietary
Internet" as everybody else.

I've not tired Gentoo, but I've used Ubuntu, Debian, SUSE and Fedora
Core and they all have this script which you have to first install
(it's not installed by default - it's an option) in order to download
and install the MS fonts.

These are the same fonts that MS had up on their website for *anyone*
to download and install for a number of years. They have since taken
it down, but the EULA on the original installer and fonts remains in
tact.

>
>The real truth is that Linux users are theifs who believe everything
>should be free and Linux itself has such awful programmers that they
>can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.
>
>I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
>doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.

Your ignorance is showing.

--
Scott http://angrykeyboarder.com

A: Because it messes up the order in which people normally read text.
Q: Why is top-posting such a bad thing?
NOTICE: In-Newsgroup (and therefore off-topic) comments on my sig will
be cheerfully ignored, so don't waste our time.

>
> So why do Linux users condone stealing?
>
> A better question is if Linux is so great, why do Linux users have to
> download msttfonts via roundabout ways presented within their
> distributions?

Because Open Office isn't so compatible with the world when you don't have
the fonts the world uses.

>
> The real truth is that Linux users are theifs who believe everything
> should be free and Linux itself has such awful programmers that they
> can't even manage to create a decent set of fonts.

Nah, I don't think they're awful programmers. I think it is an amazing
field considering that almost all of the development is done for free by
people who do it as a hobby. There are no decent fonts because it's low
priority to the techies that write Linux and since no one is paying them to
do the work, less priority stuff just doesn't get done. Fonts are used in
the realm of production workers not developers and techies. That's why
production workers use Windows and techies (some of them) use Linux.

>
> I suppose that when you are looking at a command line screen it really
> doesn't matter so it must be a low priority for the Linux programmers.
>
>

"arachnid" <none@goawayspammers.com> wrote in message
newsan.2007.02.23.03.24.29.658930@goawayspammers.com...
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2007 20:49:12 -0500, Dale "Mad_Murdock" White wrote:
>
>> I took a course by Red Hat a while back and their instructor said when
>> Linux people talk of free, they mean it more in terms of free speech,
>> not free beer.
>
> What's wrong with free beer?
>
>> Or free from restrictions or caveats.
>
> I'm against paying for software because price and restrictions seem to go
> hand-in-hand, with the restrictions often being well-hidden and the
> consumer accused of piracy if he subsequently demands a refund.
>
> It's a rigged game and I refuse to play.

So are you saying that you steal software because you don't like the game ?
I think cars are overpriced and its just a plot by the man to keep me down,
does that OK me to steal it ? Grocery store food prices are fixed..ok to
steal that ?

Funny, there was a poll out a while back where a large majority of people
seem to think it's OK to steal digital items, but wrong to steal physical
items.