ASP.NET vs. FP 2003 ?

I'm a bit confused about something. I need to be able to develp a User Login
FORM as well as SubSite Authentication (restrictions to specific pages). The
FP manual talks about a REGDB.TXT file and PERMISSIONS that are required on
the (hosting)Server. In calling my ISP, they tell me that it is not supported
and suggested I download and use ASP.NET 2.0 .... After initially looking at
THAT download, it appears that ASP.NET is a replacement for FP 2003. Am I not
seeing this correctly? Do any of you use ASP.NET in PLACE of 2003 - or do you
simply use it to develop HTML code (asp?) and cut & paste it into you FP HTML
Code?

Thanks for clearing this up.

ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications for
any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support is
built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily a
web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.

For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of course,
this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism of
ASP.Net.

If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although that
requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to use
than ASP.Net.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.


"Cody21" <Cody21@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:10D27B5A-53B7-481B-92BE-DCF82DCC8921@microsoft.com...
> I'm a bit confused about something. I need to be able to develp a User
> Login
> FORM as well as SubSite Authentication (restrictions to specific pages).
> The
> FP manual talks about a REGDB.TXT file and PERMISSIONS that are required
> on
> the (hosting)Server. In calling my ISP, they tell me that it is not
> supported
> and suggested I download and use ASP.NET 2.0 .... After initially looking
> at
> THAT download, it appears that ASP.NET is a replacement for FP 2003. Am I
> not
> seeing this correctly? Do any of you use ASP.NET in PLACE of 2003 - or do
> you
> simply use it to develop HTML code (asp?) and cut & paste it into you FP
> HTML
> Code?
>
> Thanks for clearing this up.

Yea, that's what I downloaded - the MS Visual Web Developer. So final
question - is it better just to use some of the ASP.NET-development features
in Web Developer and cut & paste the Code into MS Frontpage for final
Publishing? Thanks Kevin.

"Kevin Spencer" wrote:

> ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
> development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications for
> any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support is
> built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily a
> web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
> FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
> database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
>
> For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
> for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of course,
> this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism of
> ASP.Net.
>
> If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although that
> requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to use
> than ASP.Net.
>
> --
> HTH,
>
> Kevin Spencer
> Microsoft MVP
> Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist
>
> Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.
>
>
> "Cody21" <Cody21@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:10D27B5A-53B7-481B-92BE-DCF82DCC8921@microsoft.com...
> > I'm a bit confused about something. I need to be able to develp a User
> > Login
> > FORM as well as SubSite Authentication (restrictions to specific pages).
> > The
> > FP manual talks about a REGDB.TXT file and PERMISSIONS that are required
> > on
> > the (hosting)Server. In calling my ISP, they tell me that it is not
> > supported
> > and suggested I download and use ASP.NET 2.0 .... After initially looking
> > at
> > THAT download, it appears that ASP.NET is a replacement for FP 2003. Am I
> > not
> > seeing this correctly? Do any of you use ASP.NET in PLACE of 2003 - or do
> > you
> > simply use it to develop HTML code (asp?) and cut & paste it into you FP
> > HTML
> > Code?
> >
> > Thanks for clearing this up.
>
>
>

Kevin, I have been watching the Expression Newsgroup where the other
day one of the Beta testers was bemoaning the fact that he was missing
some of the database wizards of Frontpage.

One of the responders said basically not to worry, ASP.net "handled"
the database stuff. But I am gathering that it may not "handle" it
like the wizards of FP do (as in doing the code for you), thus leaving
those who use the FP Wizards for thier database stuff with a somewhat
substantial learning curve with ASP.net.

Like you say -- "requires some programming skill, and understanding of
the mechanism of ASP.NET"

Am I interpreting all this correctly in your opinion?

I downloaded the Beta of Expression but chickened out on installing it
after seeing all the troubles folks run into, since I cant afford to
have either my Desktop or my laptop knocked for a loop. So I cant
really investigate this stuff myself yet :=(


>ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
>development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications for
>any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support is
>built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily a
>web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
>FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
>database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
>
>For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
>for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of course,
>this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism of
>ASP.Net.
>
>If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although that
>requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to use
>than ASP.Net.

That's prcisely my issue Clark & Kevin. I have now spent (wasted?) over 8
hours downloading, installing, configuring, and trying to learn the curve of
this animal (Visual Web Developer 2005). This has been quite a frustrating
experience for something I envisioned as a SIMPLE thing I was trying to do in
FRONTPAGE - a User Authentication screen with authorization to Subsite pages
in my Main Site.I just want to enforce a login and which screens the user can
access from the main links of the main page. Sounds so simple, right? Anyway,
I am soooo frustrated by this ASP.NET direction that I'm ready to uninstall
VW Developer 2005 !!)

"Clark" wrote:

> Kevin, I have been watching the Expression Newsgroup where the other
> day one of the Beta testers was bemoaning the fact that he was missing
> some of the database wizards of Frontpage.
>
> One of the responders said basically not to worry, ASP.net "handled"
> the database stuff. But I am gathering that it may not "handle" it
> like the wizards of FP do (as in doing the code for you), thus leaving
> those who use the FP Wizards for thier database stuff with a somewhat
> substantial learning curve with ASP.net.
>
> Like you say -- "requires some programming skill, and understanding of
> the mechanism of ASP.NET"
>
> Am I interpreting all this correctly in your opinion?
>
> I downloaded the Beta of Expression but chickened out on installing it
> after seeing all the troubles folks run into, since I cant afford to
> have either my Desktop or my laptop knocked for a loop. So I cant
> really investigate this stuff myself yet :=(
>
>
> >ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
> >development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications for
> >any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support is
> >built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily a
> >web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
> >FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
> >database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
> >
> >For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
> >for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of course,
> >this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism of
> >ASP.Net.
> >
> >If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although that
> >requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to use
> >than ASP.Net.
>
>

Hi Cody21,

When I do ASP.Net work, I use Visual Studio.Net (the full-featured Microsoft
..Net development tool kit - not just for ASP.Net) to do the programming, and
use FrontPage as a tool for developing "pieces" of HTML that I use in the
web application.

An ASP.Net application is (basically) an application that uses server
process to dynamically generate an HTML interface on the client browser.
This HTML interface allows the user to interact with the server app via HTML
forms.

The Visual Studio family of products can generate HTML to a certain extent,
but are not particularly good at it (except for the Controls, which of
course generate dynamic HTML on a page for a certain functionality). The
page itself is another matter. That is, FrontPage is much better for doing
web page layout. So, I mix and match between the 2, using Visual Studio (or
Visual Web Developer in your case) to create the basic application and
interface, and then fill in the visual page layout using FrontPage, and a
lot of copying and pasting.

Like I said, ASP.Net is a pretty difficult programming technology to use,
and more difficult to master. In fact, any web application technology is
going to be difficult because of the HTTP stateless "Request/Response"
behavior.

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.


"Cody21" <Cody21@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news346C908-9687-462C-BACB-DEB69124CAA2@microsoft.com...
> Yea, that's what I downloaded - the MS Visual Web Developer. So final
> question - is it better just to use some of the ASP.NET-development
> features
> in Web Developer and cut & paste the Code into MS Frontpage for final
> Publishing? Thanks Kevin.
>
> "Kevin Spencer" wrote:
>
>> ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
>> development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications
>> for
>> any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support
>> is
>> built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily
>> a
>> web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
>> FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
>> database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
>>
>> For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
>> for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of
>> course,
>> this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism
>> of
>> ASP.Net.
>>
>> If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although
>> that
>> requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to
>> use
>> than ASP.Net.
>>
>> --
>> HTH,
>>
>> Kevin Spencer
>> Microsoft MVP
>> Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist
>>
>> Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.
>>
>>
>> "Cody21" <Cody21@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:10D27B5A-53B7-481B-92BE-DCF82DCC8921@microsoft.com...
>> > I'm a bit confused about something. I need to be able to develp a User
>> > Login
>> > FORM as well as SubSite Authentication (restrictions to specific
>> > pages).
>> > The
>> > FP manual talks about a REGDB.TXT file and PERMISSIONS that are
>> > required
>> > on
>> > the (hosting)Server. In calling my ISP, they tell me that it is not
>> > supported
>> > and suggested I download and use ASP.NET 2.0 .... After initially
>> > looking
>> > at
>> > THAT download, it appears that ASP.NET is a replacement for FP 2003. Am
>> > I
>> > not
>> > seeing this correctly? Do any of you use ASP.NET in PLACE of 2003 - or
>> > do
>> > you
>> > simply use it to develop HTML code (asp?) and cut & paste it into you
>> > FP
>> > HTML
>> > Code?
>> >
>> > Thanks for clearing this up.
>>
>>
>>

Hi Clark,

As I mentioned, FrontPage has had some fairly simple and basic tools for
doing some fairly simple and basic ASP and ASP.Net database-connective
stuff. You might compare what FrontPage wizards can do with ASP and ASP.Net
to the difference between being able to automatically write any of a couple
of dozen exact sentences, compared to the ability to write any and all books
in the Library of Congress. Because ASP and ASP.Net (and other web
application development technologies) are just that - programming
technologies, the limits of what can be done with them are virtually
non-existent. Writing a wizard that does everything for you without having
any programming knowledge, you're going to limit yourself to only a very few
of the most common tasks, and limit the configurability of those tasks.
Still, Microsoft included Wizards and some primitive tools to enable just
that.

The problems that people using FrontPage run into occur because they want to
step "just barely outside" of what these wizards can do, and without knowing
anything about programming. But guess what? As soon as you do, you have to
write your own programming code. You can certainly use the code generated by
the wizard as a starting point, but how will you expand on it if you don't
understand any of it? Answer: you don't. It seems that users in general
don't have a clue as to how much work, study, and knowledge is required of a
person that writes software. They think instead that it must be just as easy
as *using* software. That's about as far from the truth as it gets. In fact,
there is a correspondence between the user-friendliness of software and the
programmer-UNfriendliness of software. This is because in order for software
to be "user-friendly" it must do more of the work that the user does, and
must be increasingly intelligent in order to make the sort of decisions that
users have to make when using the software. So, the more user-friendly
software is, the harder it is to write that software. But software becomes
easier to use all the time, and most users have no idea how much work goes
into making it so.

Now, as to what you've heard from beta testers in newsgroups, take it all
with a grain of salt. A beta-tester is simply a person that volunteered to
use some free software in the hopes that he/she might find some of the
issues that arise from using it (bugs, usability issues, etc). There are no
qualifications or requirements for beta testers. That means that a beta
tester can be anyone. And in this world of around 7 billion people, most of
whom can access the Internet, it is a statistical fact that exactly half of
them are below average in intelligence (an below average in every other way
as well, since "average" is in the middle of the bell curve). They may or
may not know what they're talking about.

As for what Expression can do with databases that FrontPage cannot, and vice
versa, I honestly can't tell you, as I haven't used either product to write
software in years, only HTML. As I said, I use Visual Studio to write
software, and FrontPage and Expression to design HTML and manage web sites.
This is what these 2 products are best at.

I *can* tell you this: I have been using the beta of Expression ever since
the CTP came out, and have had very little trouble with it. That said, you
will have to decide for yourself whether you should install the beta or not;
beta software can do funny things (which is why it is released, and for
free!).

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.


"Clark" <nonworking@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:ifj3a21je475f4a0dkp6qudlmavv52e6vm@4ax.com...
> Kevin, I have been watching the Expression Newsgroup where the other
> day one of the Beta testers was bemoaning the fact that he was missing
> some of the database wizards of Frontpage.
>
> One of the responders said basically not to worry, ASP.net "handled"
> the database stuff. But I am gathering that it may not "handle" it
> like the wizards of FP do (as in doing the code for you), thus leaving
> those who use the FP Wizards for thier database stuff with a somewhat
> substantial learning curve with ASP.net.
>
> Like you say -- "requires some programming skill, and understanding of
> the mechanism of ASP.NET"
>
> Am I interpreting all this correctly in your opinion?
>
> I downloaded the Beta of Expression but chickened out on installing it
> after seeing all the troubles folks run into, since I cant afford to
> have either my Desktop or my laptop knocked for a loop. So I cant
> really investigate this stuff myself yet :=(
>
>
>>ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
>>development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications
>>for
>>any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support is
>>built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily a
>>web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
>>FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly simple
>>database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
>>
>>For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web Developer
>>for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of
>>course,
>>this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism
>>of
>>ASP.Net.
>>
>>If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although
>>that
>>requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to
>>use
>>than ASP.Net.
>

See my reply to Clark for the details about the problems you're having.

And remember that I did say that you would have to understand something
about the "mechanism of ASP.Net." ASP.Net is *not* Visual Web Developer; it
is a programming technology, and quite a complex one. VWD is simply a tool
set that makes the development process easier, via productivity tools. But
owning the complete Snap-On Automotive Tool Set doesn't enable you to build
or repair a car!

Here's a good starting point for learning ASP.Net:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/e....asp?frame=true

--
HTH,

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.


"Cody21" <Cody21@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:76892C88-49C2-49F8-BD79-BF2F6491E71C@microsoft.com...
> That's prcisely my issue Clark & Kevin. I have now spent (wasted?) over 8
> hours downloading, installing, configuring, and trying to learn the curve
> of
> this animal (Visual Web Developer 2005). This has been quite a frustrating
> experience for something I envisioned as a SIMPLE thing I was trying to do
> in
> FRONTPAGE - a User Authentication screen with authorization to Subsite
> pages
> in my Main Site.I just want to enforce a login and which screens the user
> can
> access from the main links of the main page. Sounds so simple, right?
> Anyway,
> I am soooo frustrated by this ASP.NET direction that I'm ready to
> uninstall
> VW Developer 2005 !!)
>
> "Clark" wrote:
>
>> Kevin, I have been watching the Expression Newsgroup where the other
>> day one of the Beta testers was bemoaning the fact that he was missing
>> some of the database wizards of Frontpage.
>>
>> One of the responders said basically not to worry, ASP.net "handled"
>> the database stuff. But I am gathering that it may not "handle" it
>> like the wizards of FP do (as in doing the code for you), thus leaving
>> those who use the FP Wizards for thier database stuff with a somewhat
>> substantial learning curve with ASP.net.
>>
>> Like you say -- "requires some programming skill, and understanding of
>> the mechanism of ASP.NET"
>>
>> Am I interpreting all this correctly in your opinion?
>>
>> I downloaded the Beta of Expression but chickened out on installing it
>> after seeing all the troubles folks run into, since I cant afford to
>> have either my Desktop or my laptop knocked for a loop. So I cant
>> really investigate this stuff myself yet :=(
>>
>>
>> >ASP.Net is a web application programming technology. FrontPage is a web
>> >development tool set. You can use FrontPage to develop web applications
>> >for
>> >any web application technology that uses scripting, and ASP.Net support
>> >is
>> >built in to FrontPage to a degree. That said, FrontPage is not primarily
>> >a
>> >web application development tool set, and its support is fairly scanty.
>> >FrontPage has some built-in tools that enable you to create fairly
>> >simple
>> >database-connective web pages, but beyond that you're on your own.
>> >
>> >For ASP.Net, your best bet would be to use Microsoft Visual Web
>> >Developer
>> >for your code, and FrontPage to easily develop the HTML portion. Of
>> >course,
>> >this requires some programming skill, and understanding of the mechanism
>> >of
>> >ASP.Net.
>> >
>> >If you're not a programmer, you might have more luck with ASP, although
>> >that
>> >requires some programming skill as well. However, it is much simpler to
>> >use
>> >than ASP.Net.
>>
>>

Kevin, thank you for taking the time to write such a complete reply.

For myself, I think that I do understand how much effort goes into
making easy-to-use software, and which is why I am quite willing to
pay for it when it becomes available. And experience has shown that
as time goes by, some hard-working software writer inevitably does the
work that makes it so other (less) hard-working people can accomplish
more than they deserve to be able to.

FrontPage did exactly that for lots of people. Me, I made a completely
functional database-driven site that brings in enough $$ to pay for my
computer/internet hobby (along with doing a number of freebie database
driven web things for friends and good causes) -- great retirement
avocation it has been!

And I am certain the (significant) time I spent learning the ins and
outs of Frontpage and Access was *considerably* less than would have
been required to accomplish the same with ASP etc., thanks in large
part to the Wizards.

When Expression is ready, I will buy it and learn it, and whatever
else I have to learn to be able to do what I can already do with FP,
but I will view it as a step backward if I am forced to learn ASP if
Expression turns out to require that in order to make the (admittedly
less than sophisticated) kind of database-driven site I can currently
make with ease.

Actually, I find it hard to believe that Expression would be that kind
of step backward, so I remain *hopeful*

Time will tell.

>Hi Clark,
>
>As I mentioned, FrontPage has had some fairly simple and basic tools for
>doing some fairly simple and basic ASP and ASP.Net database-connective
>stuff. You might compare what FrontPage wizards can do with ASP and ASP.Net
>to the difference between being able to automatically write any of a couple
>of dozen exact sentences, compared to the ability to write any and all books
>in the Library of Congress. Because ASP and ASP.Net (and other web
>application development technologies) are just that - programming
>technologies, the limits of what can be done with them are virtually
>non-existent. Writing a wizard that does everything for you without having
>any programming knowledge, you're going to limit yourself to only a very few
>of the most common tasks, and limit the configurability of those tasks.
>Still, Microsoft included Wizards and some primitive tools to enable just
>that.
>
>The problems that people using FrontPage run into occur because they want to
>step "just barely outside" of what these wizards can do, and without knowing
>anything about programming. But guess what? As soon as you do, you have to
>write your own programming code. You can certainly use the code generated by
>the wizard as a starting point, but how will you expand on it if you don't
>understand any of it? Answer: you don't. It seems that users in general
>don't have a clue as to how much work, study, and knowledge is required of a
>person that writes software. They think instead that it must be just as easy
>as *using* software. That's about as far from the truth as it gets. In fact,
>there is a correspondence between the user-friendliness of software and the
>programmer-UNfriendliness of software. This is because in order for software
>to be "user-friendly" it must do more of the work that the user does, and
>must be increasingly intelligent in order to make the sort of decisions that
>users have to make when using the software. So, the more user-friendly
>software is, the harder it is to write that software. But software becomes
>easier to use all the time, and most users have no idea how much work goes
>into making it so.
>
>Now, as to what you've heard from beta testers in newsgroups, take it all
>with a grain of salt. A beta-tester is simply a person that volunteered to
>use some free software in the hopes that he/she might find some of the
>issues that arise from using it (bugs, usability issues, etc). There are no
>qualifications or requirements for beta testers. That means that a beta
>tester can be anyone. And in this world of around 7 billion people, most of
>whom can access the Internet, it is a statistical fact that exactly half of
>them are below average in intelligence (an below average in every other way
>as well, since "average" is in the middle of the bell curve). They may or
>may not know what they're talking about.
>
>As for what Expression can do with databases that FrontPage cannot, and vice
>versa, I honestly can't tell you, as I haven't used either product to write
>software in years, only HTML. As I said, I use Visual Studio to write
>software, and FrontPage and Expression to design HTML and manage web sites.
>This is what these 2 products are best at.
>
>I *can* tell you this: I have been using the beta of Expression ever since
>the CTP came out, and have had very little trouble with it. That said, you
>will have to decide for yourself whether you should install the beta or not;
>beta software can do funny things (which is why it is released, and for
>free!).

Hope is a good thing!

--

Kevin Spencer
Microsoft MVP
Professional Chicken Salad Alchemist

Big thicks are made up of lots of little thins.


"Clark" <nonworking@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:gj36a2l0q7ef68shs43hp8bfrg5qr8sa1v@4ax.com...
> Kevin, thank you for taking the time to write such a complete reply.
>
> For myself, I think that I do understand how much effort goes into
> making easy-to-use software, and which is why I am quite willing to
> pay for it when it becomes available. And experience has shown that
> as time goes by, some hard-working software writer inevitably does the
> work that makes it so other (less) hard-working people can accomplish
> more than they deserve to be able to.
>
> FrontPage did exactly that for lots of people. Me, I made a completely
> functional database-driven site that brings in enough $$ to pay for my
> computer/internet hobby (along with doing a number of freebie database
> driven web things for friends and good causes) -- great retirement
> avocation it has been!
>
> And I am certain the (significant) time I spent learning the ins and
> outs of Frontpage and Access was *considerably* less than would have
> been required to accomplish the same with ASP etc., thanks in large
> part to the Wizards.
>
> When Expression is ready, I will buy it and learn it, and whatever
> else I have to learn to be able to do what I can already do with FP,
> but I will view it as a step backward if I am forced to learn ASP if
> Expression turns out to require that in order to make the (admittedly
> less than sophisticated) kind of database-driven site I can currently
> make with ease.
>
> Actually, I find it hard to believe that Expression would be that kind
> of step backward, so I remain *hopeful*
>
> Time will tell.
>
>>Hi Clark,
>>
>>As I mentioned, FrontPage has had some fairly simple and basic tools for
>>doing some fairly simple and basic ASP and ASP.Net database-connective
>>stuff. You might compare what FrontPage wizards can do with ASP and
>>ASP.Net
>>to the difference between being able to automatically write any of a
>>couple
>>of dozen exact sentences, compared to the ability to write any and all
>>books
>>in the Library of Congress. Because ASP and ASP.Net (and other web
>>application development technologies) are just that - programming
>>technologies, the limits of what can be done with them are virtually
>>non-existent. Writing a wizard that does everything for you without having
>>any programming knowledge, you're going to limit yourself to only a very
>>few
>>of the most common tasks, and limit the configurability of those tasks.
>>Still, Microsoft included Wizards and some primitive tools to enable just
>>that.
>>
>>The problems that people using FrontPage run into occur because they want
>>to
>>step "just barely outside" of what these wizards can do, and without
>>knowing
>>anything about programming. But guess what? As soon as you do, you have to
>>write your own programming code. You can certainly use the code generated
>>by
>>the wizard as a starting point, but how will you expand on it if you don't
>>understand any of it? Answer: you don't. It seems that users in general
>>don't have a clue as to how much work, study, and knowledge is required of
>>a
>>person that writes software. They think instead that it must be just as
>>easy
>>as *using* software. That's about as far from the truth as it gets. In
>>fact,
>>there is a correspondence between the user-friendliness of software and
>>the
>>programmer-UNfriendliness of software. This is because in order for
>>software
>>to be "user-friendly" it must do more of the work that the user does, and
>>must be increasingly intelligent in order to make the sort of decisions
>>that
>>users have to make when using the software. So, the more user-friendly
>>software is, the harder it is to write that software. But software becomes
>>easier to use all the time, and most users have no idea how much work goes
>>into making it so.
>>
>>Now, as to what you've heard from beta testers in newsgroups, take it all
>>with a grain of salt. A beta-tester is simply a person that volunteered to
>>use some free software in the hopes that he/she might find some of the
>>issues that arise from using it (bugs, usability issues, etc). There are
>>no
>>qualifications or requirements for beta testers. That means that a beta
>>tester can be anyone. And in this world of around 7 billion people, most
>>of
>>whom can access the Internet, it is a statistical fact that exactly half
>>of
>>them are below average in intelligence (an below average in every other
>>way
>>as well, since "average" is in the middle of the bell curve). They may or
>>may not know what they're talking about.
>>
>>As for what Expression can do with databases that FrontPage cannot, and
>>vice
>>versa, I honestly can't tell you, as I haven't used either product to
>>write
>>software in years, only HTML. As I said, I use Visual Studio to write
>>software, and FrontPage and Expression to design HTML and manage web
>>sites.
>>This is what these 2 products are best at.
>>
>>I *can* tell you this: I have been using the beta of Expression ever since
>>the CTP came out, and have had very little trouble with it. That said, you
>>will have to decide for yourself whether you should install the beta or
>>not;
>>beta software can do funny things (which is why it is released, and for
>>free!).
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