A64 3000+ K8T800 or P4 630 i925X based system?

I've been reading posts saying I'd get more bang-for-the-buck with a
AMD setup than a similarly priced Intel setup, so I'm looking int
it

The CPU/board combinations I listed in the subject line seem to b
similarly priced as near as I can tell. However, when I compare the
a
http://www23.tomshardware.com/index...l2=112&chart=21
it looks like they perform pretty equally with games and the P4 63
finishes quite a bit higher than the A64 3000+ on video encoding

Also, what's the difference between socket 754 and 939

Again, I've always been an Intel guy but am looking for an excuse t
switch to AMD. Can someone please explain this to me

Thanks

Ti

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 03:29:39 GMT, no@spam.invalid (tluxon) wrote:

>I've been reading posts saying I'd get more bang-for-the-buck with an
>AMD setup than a similarly priced Intel setup, so I'm looking into
>it.
>
>The CPU/board combinations I listed in the subject line seem to be
>similarly priced as near as I can tell. However, when I compare them
>at
>http://www23.tomshardware.com/index...l2=112&chart=21,
>it looks like they perform pretty equally with games and the P4 630
>finishes quite a bit higher than the A64 3000+ on video encoding.
>
>Also, what's the difference between socket 754 and 939?
>
>Again, I've always been an Intel guy but am looking for an excuse to
>switch to AMD. Can someone please explain this to me?
>

Well right now if you read the review sites they seem to be in favor
of the AMDs over intel which tend to be power hungry and run hot.
It more of a problem with Prescotts,

AMD when switching from the AMD athlon 32 bit XP series introed two
sockets for the AMD 64 chips and their similar to XP budget like the
Semprons.

The sockets at the time were 754 the mass produced socket for AMD 64
and semprons and the 940 which needed ECC memory which was much more
expensive all around - motherboards , CPUs and memory.

They then came out with the 939 which included some of the features of
940 like dual memory at a lower cost. The 939 is the current standard
now and takes everything from semprons to AMD 64s. The 754 socket is
going to be phases out. That doesnt mean its bad since you can get it
at a lower price sometimes but not always so. However it doesnt have
dual mem (not that big of a deal) , will be phased out maybe next
year or so and so far no dual core X2 AMD chips are available for it
and probably wont. The 939 socket boards being newer have PCI ex
video slots and PCI ex card slots and a few older PCI slots. The 754
has the older familiar AGP video slots and PCI slots.


Right now 939s have been out since Jan so they can be very low like
the one I have the chaintech vnf4 ultra which is as low as $79. So the
avg 754 socket deal is probably no better than the lower 939 prices
but sometimes there are big clearance sales on the 754. Id only get a
754 if it was way lower than a 939 which I did get - I paid about
$270 or so for a 939 combo 3000 early in the year and got a 754 Compaq
barebones system for $109 recently 3200 .

The next big thing is dual core , INTEL supposedly has the cheapest
one at less than 200 bucks and AMD their cheapest is the X2 AMD 3800
generally for $360 . The AMD is rated higher once again and does a
good job in video the weakest area for AMD traditionally. In fact at
some sites AMD beats the INTEL. And INTEL at pricewatch seems to be
selling for much higher than the magazines list so it makes it even
less attractive.


The thing is I think INTEL knows this --- as sites like ANANDTECH
really are down on intel , so theres optimistic claims of INTELs next
gen chips made on a 65 process which are said to run cooler and have
huge cache sizes may come out early next year. So that may change the
whole equation. AMD also plans to come out with the M2 which uses a
different socket and DDR2 mem maybe the end of next year.

In the review at the time the 3800 was $380 and the 830 D I think was
sub $300 the main thing going for it. However if you check now
they are virtually the same price $332 AMD at Monarch and $325 for the
Pent 830 D so if thats true I guess the choice is overwhelmingly for
the AMD in the dual core and single core ranges since in other reviews
they and other sites favor the AMDs .

With the single core 3000 venice cores they OC a fair amount so thats
a consideration even though they may lag a bit on some benchmarks vs
the 630.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cp...n64-3000_4.html
---------------------------------------------------------------

Anandtech review of the budget X2 AMD 3800


Final Words

There's not much to say here other than that the Athlon 64 X2 3800+ is
the clear choice for any user at this price point. What you give up
in single threaded performance is more than made up for by the
improvements in multitasking and multithreaded application
performance.

Bit by bit, AMD is eating away at any possible recommendation that
we'd have for the Pentium D. While the Pentium D 820 is still our
recommendation at the sub-$300 mark, if your budget can handle it,
we'd strongly recommend going for the Athlon 64 X2 3800+.

As for overclocking, we had no problems reaching 2.46GHz with our
Athlon 64 3800+ sample using standard air cooling. The overclocking
wasn't as impressive as what we saw with the Toledo based Athlon 64
4200+, but we will save a final conclusion on overclocking until we
get more Manchester based processors in house.

We really didn't want to see AMD become a more expensive CPU
manufacturer, and with the X2 3800+, we finally have a more sensibly
priced dual core option. The choice is clear - the Athlon 64 X2 3800+
is better in every way than the Pentium D 830. For Intel's sake in
the enthusiast community, Conroe had better be very competitive next
year - because ever since Prescott, the Pentium 4 has been an utter
disappointment.

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 21:16:58 -1000, "John@Smith.com" <John@Smith.com>
wrote:

>
>The next big thing is dual core , INTEL supposedly has the cheapest
>one at less than 200 bucks

I meant $300 not $200.

>and AMD their cheapest is the X2 AMD 3800
>generally for $360 . The AMD is rated higher once again and does a
>good job in video the weakest area for AMD traditionally. In fact at
>some sites AMD beats the INTEL. And INTEL at pricewatch seems to be
>selling for much higher than the magazines list so it makes it even
>less attractive.

Thanks for the helpful and informative reply, John

As far as my budget goes, this is our 4th PC for a family of 4 and I'
not sure I should go all out on it. I was thinking a good price poin
for decent performance would be about $175 for the CPUs. Both of th
CPUs I listed can be had for under $174 at ZipZoomFly.com

I'd be surprised if the PC in consideration will ever be overclocke
(or at least not until our 9yr old takes full responsibility for it)
as our boys use it more for internet stuff and my oldest boy wants t
use if for Lego Digital Designer

I'm considering this because I was trying to extend the life of a Asu
P2B-F P3 550MHz -based system. I discovered the power supply couldn'
support a Radeon 9800 Pro I have (which would be way overkill for th
system) and the motherboard didn't have the PCI rev.2.2 slots
needed for a wireless NIC. I just want to put something intelligen
together that'll be bulletproof and not require any of m
troubleshooting time

So if I decide to stick with a P4 630 it'll be mostly because I'
familiar with Intel products. I have a concern with how hot the CP
runs, but I thought Intel had slightly mitigated some of the hea
issues with the 600 series processors. It sounds like you're sayin
that's not quite true. I have a number of friends that always bu
Dell computers and some of them are using 600 series processors an
don't say anything about problems with heat. Is it because they jus
don't know? Or has Dell incorporated extra cooling in their system
to negate the issue of heat in their systems? Or perhaps this hea
is only a factor when using 100% CPU time for extended periods o
time

I like everything I've read about AMD and their widespread use in th
overclocking community and will give it serious consideration whe
upgrading my current computer. I'm just not as sure if it's the bes
direction to go for upgrading the family's #4 PC that probably won'
be overclocked and I don't really want to put more time into

Thanks for any advice you can provide at this lower price point

Ti

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:30:22 GMT, no@spam.invalid (tluxon)
wrote:


>I'd be surprised if the PC in consideration will ever be overclocked
>(or at least not until our 9yr old takes full responsibility for it),
>as our boys use it more for internet stuff and my oldest boy wants to
>use if for Lego Digital Designer.
>
>I'm considering this because I was trying to extend the life of a Asus
>P2B-F P3 550MHz -based system. I discovered the power supply couldn't
>support a Radeon 9800 Pro I have (which would be way overkill for the
>system) and the motherboard didn't have the PCI rev.2.2 slots I
>needed for a wireless NIC. I just want to put something intelligent
>together that'll be bulletproof and not require any of my
>troubleshooting time.

It sounds like you're going overboard. The described uses
will run fine with a Celeron-D, and after a year you'd have
lost most of the value of the P4 anyway.


>
>So if I decide to stick with a P4 630 it'll be mostly because I'm
>familiar with Intel products. I have a concern with how hot the CPU
>runs, but I thought Intel had slightly mitigated some of the heat
>issues with the 600 series processors. It sounds like you're saying
>that's not quite true.

It's not at all true. There is no "fix" for the problem
because it's inherant in the design of the P4 and process
size. For a cooler CPU made by intel you'd want a
Pentium-M.

>I have a number of friends that always buy
>Dell computers and some of them are using 600 series processors and
>don't say anything about problems with heat. Is it because they just
>don't know?

That is possible, but more likely, they only use the system
modestly rather than ever having it at full load for any
extended period of time. Indeed, your son probably won't
either, but for the games. Right now it may be "Lego
Digital Designer", but there may be more demanding games
today or tomorrow too. On the other hand that is also a
reason to go with a P4 instead of Celeron, but ultimately,
either is hot-running per the performance.

I tend to think your "comfort" level with Intel systems is a
bit irrelevant. There's no particular difference, you just
install the board same way, install CPU and heatsink
(similar enough), install software and there you are.
That's not to knock an Intel purchase if that's what you
want, but for games and lower heat an Athlon 64 is the
better choice.

> Or has Dell incorporated extra cooling in their systems
>to negate the issue of heat in their systems?

Definitely not. Dell uses basic time-tested cooling
strategies with median grade parts. It works, but not a lot
of margin because better heatsinks cost more and most people
don't think about a heatsink when reading the Dell spec
sheet, so it's a hidden cost they want to avoid.

>Or perhaps this heat
>is only a factor when using 100% CPU time for extended periods of
>time?
>


I should read ahead more often.
Yes, but likewise, at any given load it'll also be a bit
hotter and use more power (energy). If power use isn't a
concern then only the issue of full load needs considered.
i'm not suggesting it will overheat, necessarily, but you do
want to keep an eye on dust buildup and operation in a room
with high ambient temp might be best avoided with Dell (or
any OEM for that matter) cooling solution.


>I like everything I've read about AMD and their widespread use in the
>overclocking community and will give it serious consideration when
>upgrading my current computer.

It doesn't really have to do with overclocking, one can o'c
a P4 too if they like. It just happens that those most
sensative to the performance gains of overclocking, also
appreciate what the CPU is before it's overclocked too.

With either CPU, the best o'c is by raising the FSB, and
memory bus, requiring good high-end memory too. That
strategy is quite attainable on either platform, providing
the motherboard you select has the headroom and features to
facilitate it, but of course to get as much o'c out of a P4,
at a certain point the heat is a real issue to combat with a
water-cooler or other exotic means.

> I'm just not as sure if it's the best
>direction to go for upgrading the family's #4 PC that probably won't
>be overclocked and I don't really want to put more time into.


If you're looking to upgrade your system too, why not just
hand it down to your son and get yourself a new one instead?

I didn't mean to "push" overclocking, but it's a personal
choice, and you need not go overboard doing so if you
decided to. Some aim for 30% or more o'c, and that may not
be warranted but a lesser % is still a real gain in some
situations. Even so, for the described uses, certainly any
modern CPU is going to be fast enough without o'c.

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 17:30:22 GMT, no@spam.invalid (tluxon) wrote:


>As far as my budget goes, this is our 4th PC for a family of 4 and I'm
>not sure I should go all out on it. I was thinking a good price point
>for decent performance would be about $175 for the CPUs. Both of the
>CPUs I listed can be had for under $174 at ZipZoomFly.com.

>I like everything I've read about AMD and their widespread use in the
>overclocking community and will give it serious consideration when
>upgrading my current computer. I'm just not as sure if it's the best
>direction to go for upgrading the family's #4 PC that probably won't
>be overclocked and I don't really want to put more time into.

Im mixing up the 820 and 830 up in that post as you can tell - posting
late at night or early in the morn.

Frankly I havent bought an INTEL in ages, Ive switched back in forth
usually because one firm has the lead with OCeable cheaper CPUs. The
last INTEL I had was an old celeron that had a super OC rep but
siwtched back to AMD even with their hot Tbirds and then went with the
super OCeable Bartons and then the AMD 64. So Im not really into the
INTELs as much but get whatever you are comfortable with.

I didnt like INTEL before because they were having some problems with
heat and they used more expensive mem but I think DDR2 has really
fallen in price and if AMD switches to M2s with DDR2 than the old
memory will become obsolete.

The heat thing is exaggerated a lot. A lot of people bring it up in
relation to AMDs past rep of running hot with Tbirds etc sure they run
hot but its not like the PC blows up or anything, If they didnt work
they wouldnt sell them but it does use more power and usually limits
OCeable.

For me the price is the mainthing. If you can get a 754 socket AMD for
far less than anything else than Id get that or the Intel or the 939.

As Kony says if its the family PC your needs sound really modest but I
tend to think you should get a bit of leeway anyway especially if
something much more powerful gets into the sweet spot in pricing where
its not really that expensive then might as well go for it.

The best deal is probably the FRYs combo deal or some other combo deal
where they sell the 754 socket AMD 64 for cheap. That probably would
be the best deal for the family PC. Shouldnt be a problem at all
except in the sense that FRYs almost always bundles ECS MBs one of the
cheapest makers of boards for the combos so that may or may not cause
problems but a lot of people buy these and claim they are OK.


754 socket 3200 AMD 64 with ECS MB $159
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/44...CH:MAIN_RSLT_PG
939 socket 3500 AMD 64 VIA chipset ECS MB $209
http://shop4.outpost.com/product/45...CH:MAIN_RSLT_PG

If you have a decent case get the $39 430 watt Antec on sale at
COMPUSA after rebate.

http://www.compusa.com/products/pro...2357&pfp=SEARCH


After that it depends on what you have already. If you have an AGP
video card that you can carry over then the above are AGP. If you get
an nforce4 939 board itll be PCI ex totally different video slot
card.

The second one 939 board with the via chipset is kind of unusual if
the info is right --- claims to have BOTH slots.

1 x PCI Express x16 slot
1 x AGP Express slot

The second big thing is what kind of memory do you have now? If you
have 3200 DDR then you can carry it over to the new AMD system and it
doesnt cost you a thing.

The above would be more than enough for your needs.
But like i said the ECS boards are not top of the line quality boards
though I havent heard massive problems posted about the FRYs deals
which tons of people seem to buy. You can find lots of cheap
mainsrream boards now but FRYs deals they essentially throw in the MB
for virtually free.


754 combo above 3200 AMD $159
New PS Antec $ 39

Memory one stick of
DDR 3200 512 $32
Afrter rebate at CC
http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/King...roductDetail.do
Add to basket to see real price

ATI 9600 Pro 256 AGP $68
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16814102305
------------------------
$300 or so plus shipping and tax

Use your old KB , mouse etc.

Nov and Dec the best sales months in the US are coming up so you can
probably get close to freebie deals on KB, Mice etc

Cases - if you need one there are lots of cheap cases but Antec has
been on sale almost every other week , their cheaper smaller cases
with 350 watt or so PSes for 39-49 after rebate.


The 9600 Pro people claim will actually play al lthe games out in OK
fashion. You say all you do is play Legos or something then this would
be more than enough even if you wanted to play better games in the
near future. If you think you wont upgrade for a long time and may
actually play better games later and dont mind spending more the 9800
/pro , 6600/GT, 6800/LE are better deals probably.

Compare the above with the total cost of a new INTEL build you are
thinking about and if you dont mind spending more for the INTEL and
are stuck on it then go with the Intel if not go with the AMD. Either
way the dual cores are out, M2s and new gen INTELs may be out next
year so whatever you get will be outdated anyway next year or so
though itll be powerful enough to run any software out now.and the
forseeable future.

Thanks for all the great input

I'm not too excited about buying a questionable (cheap) motherboard.
I don't mind paying another $30 or $40 to get one that's more certai
to be rock solid. I've always favored ASUS and Abit

I haven't decided for sure on whether to upgrade the power supply onl
or just replace the case with something similar to my Antec Sonat
that already has a decent power supply in it

I'm curious about the new 64-bit Semprons. For this PC's computin
needs, they just might offer a good price/performance point. An
thoughts o
these

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 18:29:58 GMT, no@spam.invalid (tluxon) wrote:

>Based on what I read in the xbit review on the socket 939 Sempron64,
>I'm pretty sure I'd prefer a socket 939 board over a
>soon-to-be-phased-out socket 754.


>What are the reputable chipsets and how should I decide between them
>if I have any choice?

Both are OK. The two main rivals I guess would be VIA and NVIDIA
nforce4 for 939 and Nforce3 generally for 754. There are some other
chipsets too but I like to stick to nforce by nvidia generally but I
wouldnt mind getting a VIA .

VIA was getting really big a while ago and there was talk that they
might really make a move in the INTEL world and dominate the AMD
world, But then Nvidia came in really strong and VIA was tagged as
being buggy after some problems with a VIA chipset years ago. I had
MBs with VIA chipsets for several systems until I switched to nvidia.
Nvidia frankly had bugs too but I prefer Nvidia cause they are super
popular and you can get drivers/support easily for their chipsets.
Thats not to say you cant for VIA. They are still popular.

I tend to avoid the far less popular chipsets.

>Also, the AMD A64 3200+ Venice CPU
>(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103535)
>is some $40 less than the AMD A64 3200+ Winchester CPU
>(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103502).
> Looking at the product specifications on Newegg I couldn't tell what
>differentiates them other than the price. Can anyone help?

The Winchester is the older core . They came out with a Venice core
later which is replacing the winchester. Its not a big deal like the
754 vs 939. The win and venice are both 939s and the specs are very
close. Its just that the venice supposedly has a better memory
controller and some other improvements I think which supposedly lets
them overclock better. When the 939s came out they got a rep of being
able to OC really well , along with the Sempron 3100 754 socket. The
earlier 754 sockets didnt have that rep - as great Ocers. However I
mentioned one more recent 754 that posters claim can be OCed very well
that OEM mobile version. Anyway , there was lots of hype about how
great they OCed but some said it was good but exaggerated as the mem
controller on the chip had some problems and other factors that
llimited the OC max lower than the hype claimed. It was still very
good but not as high as some reviews claimed some posters said. Well
AMD came out with these Venice cores with SSE3 , improved mem
controller etc which improved max OCeability.

So obviously the venice should sell higher I would think since they
are phasing the Winchester out. So it could be some bizarre pricing
anamoly which you see sometimes especially when they are phasing a
product out. Or its possible someone knows something I dont know like
some weird claim the wincesters being phased out have some special
advantages so are being bid up by hot demand. I havent heard anything
though. But there are these rumors on things. For instance the X2 dual
core 3800s AMDs cheapest dual core. They are supposed to be Manchester
cores a new core for the dual which reduces cache etc to lower cost.
However some said some of the early ones were Toledo cores the more
expensive core used on the higher end chips. Some places were pointing
this out and selling them a bit higher because of their alleged higher
OCeability and I guess cache if it was enabled.

>
>On the other hand, if I could find one of these new socket 939
>Sempron64s, I think I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anybody have an idea
>where these will first become available outside of the OEMs?

How long can you wait? If Xbit is right then the 3100 939s should be
out very soon --- I would think they would want them out for Xmas
sales.

If you can get an old Northwood cheap and MB sure might as well. If
its going to cost more then I think not. Cause there are lots of cheap
options with the AMDs especially with Nov coming up. Remember Nov
Black Friday and Xmas are the two best months for sales usually.

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 21:30:32 GMT, no@spam.invalid (tluxon) wrote:

>Thanks for all the great input!
>
>I'm not too excited about buying a questionable (cheap) motherboard.
>I don't mind paying another $30 or $40 to get one that's more certain
>to be rock solid. I've always favored ASUS and Abit.
>
>I haven't decided for sure on whether to upgrade the power supply only
>or just replace the case with something similar to my Antec Sonata
>that already has a decent power supply in it.
>
>I'm curious about the new 64-bit Semprons. For this PC's computing
>needs, they just might offer a good price/performance point. Any
>thoughts on
>these?

I saw some reviews on the AMD64 3400 and 3300 and they are pretty
close to 3200/3000 64 chips but they have different cache sizes. The
Semprons have I think 128 and 256 , the chips above have the larger
256 size. The AMD 64 Athlons have 512 and 1 meg. It makes a difference
on certain things but in general it doesnt have a huge impact.

How much do you want to save ? Thats the mainthing.

With the semprons 3100/3300 I think Ive only seen 754 sockets at this
time and they were around $125+. The 754 socket AMD 3000 depends on
the sale obviously but I think you can get them for generally $145.

In fact if you look on Pricewatch they are all bunched together --

Socket 754 3000 & 3200 $145-150+
Socket 939 3000 & 3200 $145-150+
Sempron 3400 64 $134+

Not a huge amount of different until you get to the 3100 Sempron 64
at 95-113 bucks or so.

Right now you can get the a decent up to date board like the
Nforce4 based Chaintech VNF4Ultra $73 at newegg right now 939 socket
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=OTC-P12ice5can
This is the board I have which if fine.

And 3000 AMD 939 $146 retail with fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103537

Thats $250 and can be upgraded with a dual core processer later on
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A 754 socket which is very similar performance but has more limited
upgradeability in the long run - cant use dual cores. The 754s though
you can find them around I noticed at Newegg some of them like the
3000 arent being offerd in retail form. Remember they are going to
phase this socket out maybe next year.

$116 OEM - no fan/heatsink Its a mobile version meaning usage in
laptops and the claim is they run cooler and use less power so that
usually means they can overclock more. If you read the reviews at
newegg they claim thats how it is , great overclocker and it has 1 meg
of cache it says.

If you got a 14-20 buck fan/heatsink thats $136 or so.
There are lots of cheap motherboards 754 socket.
You could get this and MB from a decent make for $200-210.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Semprons

The 3100 is OK it has a smaller cache remember than the athlon 64s.
They actually look pretty close to the athlons in many benchmarks
despite the smaller cache.

Theres a 3300/3400 version out now which is about $125+ or so.
The price difference is small vs the above 754 socket 3000 OEM athlon
which people claim can overclock like crazy and has 1 meg of cache.
Id rather get that.

The big drop in price comes with the 3100 sempron 64 754 socket which
is about 105 bucks. Then you can get MB and processor with a
inexpensive namebrand board for probably $170-180. But its slower than
all the combos above but decent enough. Especially for your needs.
They say it varies but the 3100 can be a monster overclocker though
theres some variablity with some doing OK OCs and others really
getting up there according to Xbit labs.

The interesting thing --

If you want to go 939 socket cause of the improved upgradeability path
Xbit labs says they are coming out with a 939 socket 3000 Sempron 64
bit so a $80-90 Sempron 939 3000 + 73-90 board will get you in the sub
$200 range if they do come out as claimed at around the same price as
the 754 sempron price points. Xbit says end of this year and we only
have two months left in this year.


http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cp...ron-3000_7.html

Theres also some nforce3 939 boards listed at newegg with AGP
which surprises me. In the past I only saw nforce3 754 sockets.

Based on what I read in the xbit review on the socket 939 Sempron64
I'm pretty sure I'd prefer a socket 939 board over
soon-to-be-phased-out socket 754

My current Intel board is an ASUS P4P800-E Deluxe, which I think i
great so I was looking for something similar in an AMD flavor an
found the ASUS A8
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16813131541)
It's a socket 939 board with AGP, but it has the Via K8T800 chipse
which I know nothing about

What are the reputable chipsets and how should I decide between the
if I have any choice

Also, the AMD A64 3200+ Venice CP
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103535
is some $40 less than the AMD A64 3200+ Winchester CP
(http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...N82E16819103502)
Looking at the product specifications on Newegg I couldn't tell wha
differentiates them other than the price. Can anyone help

I'm starting to wonder again if I'm going to be much further ahea
going this route than just sticking with the Intel path and finding
P4 3.0GHz Northwood on eBay and coupling it with an Abit IS7 or Asu
P4P800-E (Intel 865PE chipset). As near as I can gather, performanc
isn't going to be all that far apart and the price seems to be ver
close

On the other hand, if I could find one of these new socket 93
Sempron64s, I think I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Anybody have an ide
where these will first become available outside of the OEMs

Thanks

Ti