CPU Shims = false advertising?

The way I've ALWAYS understood it was that a CPU Shim was there to
protect the CPU core during installation of a heatsink, or maybe,
MAYBE, if you have a really heavy heatsink it will hold some of the
weight of that off of the CPU.

But why are all of them being sold in cooling kits, or saying that
they are Anodized for anti-static protection and developed for heat
dissipation!? Is this not false advertising? Too many of my friends
are lead to buy these things @ 10 or more dollars, when they don't
even need them - they know how to put on a heatsink, they just think
this miracle aluminum will cool their CPU!

Are these things **EVER** worth the money to experienced installers (I
can understand the safety for someone installing their first HS/F on a
CPU)? Or is it all just a marketing gimmick?

Curious about your thoughts.

Garrett C.

Garrett,

I myself have never used one yet. I'm wondering the same?

Anyone out there with more information? Experience?

Edward
El Paso, TX

"Garrett C." <NuAngel@NuAngel.net> wrote in message
news:fe41a323.0405181124.2ccf22d1@posting.google.com...
> The way I've ALWAYS understood it was that a CPU Shim was there to
> protect the CPU core during installation of a heatsink, or maybe,
> MAYBE, if you have a really heavy heatsink it will hold some of the
> weight of that off of the CPU.
>
> But why are all of them being sold in cooling kits, or saying that
> they are Anodized for anti-static protection and developed for heat
> dissipation!? Is this not false advertising? Too many of my friends
> are lead to buy these things @ 10 or more dollars, when they don't
> even need them - they know how to put on a heatsink, they just think
> this miracle aluminum will cool their CPU!
>
> Are these things **EVER** worth the money to experienced installers (I
> can understand the safety for someone installing their first HS/F on a
> CPU)? Or is it all just a marketing gimmick?
>
> Curious about your thoughts.
>
> Garrett C.

Garrett C. said in news:fe41a323.0405181124.2ccf22d1@posting.google.com:
> The way I've ALWAYS understood it was that a CPU Shim was there to
> protect the CPU core during installation of a heatsink, or maybe,
> MAYBE, if you have a really heavy heatsink it will hold some of the
> weight of that off of the CPU.
>
> But why are all of them being sold in cooling kits, or saying that
> they are Anodized for anti-static protection and developed for heat
> dissipation!? Is this not false advertising? Too many of my friends
> are lead to buy these things @ 10 or more dollars, when they don't
> even need them - they know how to put on a heatsink, they just think
> this miracle aluminum will cool their CPU!
>
> Are these things **EVER** worth the money to experienced installers (I
> can understand the safety for someone installing their first HS/F on a
> CPU)? Or is it all just a marketing gimmick?
>
> Curious about your thoughts.
>
> Garrett C.

They are being sold in cooling kits to ensure the bigger heatsink sits
flat on the core or thermal transfer plate. They do not themself
improve heat transfer except in keeping the heatsink flat against the
plate to maximize surface contact. Apparently they originated from a
need to prevent damage to the CPU. Apparently many self-proclaimed
home-build jobbers are pretty rough in installing the heatsink. Think
it like the idiot that needs big marine bumpers around his car in order
to park in in his garage. Many motherboards also provide protection on
the area of their surface around where users will use a screwdriver to
push down on the retaining bracket's clip - because the screwdriver may
slip off and smack onto the motherboard to damage or cut the foils on
it. If the clip doesn't have a pocket to securely capture the
screwdriver tip, be sure to lay a couple sheets of paper underneath.
The shims are insurance against crappy unskilled users in how they
install and remove heatsinks; i.e., it is cheap insurance to include one
instead of having to deal with RMAs because of clumsy users. You can
buy the shims separately.

Don't recall that I had to use one on my current AMD system as the
rubber spacers atop the CPU case take care to help eliminate any canting
of the heatsink during installation. You definitely would not want to
use shims if you lap your heatsink and CPU plate since you would want
them to mate flat at whatever angle you ended up lapping them flat.
Until now I hadn't even considered shims but I probably wouldn't want to
use them anyway. The CPU's casing is probably not really geared to
handling the pressure from the heatsink and its retaining clip, so you
should only be applying the pressure where the CPU maker expected it to
be applied. You also attempting to cool the case rather than the plate
which was designed for thermal transfer. I'm sure the CPU makers have
spent a lot of resources in deciding how to get the heat out and I doubt
it is through the ceramic casing (which would heat up the heat sink
providing less of a differential to draw heat from the plate).

http://www.cluboverclocker.com/revi...ms/pctoys_shim/

http://www.heatsink-guide.com/shim.htm

For me, a shim is a waste of money, extra work, and no real benefit.
But I've seen some folks that think they can solder electronics that
blob on the solder, apply way too much heat, and dig the point of a
pointed solder iron tip into a blivet trying to heat up submerged solder
to suck it out to open the blivet. Some folks should never have a
solder iron in their hand. Some folks should never install CPUs. And
some folks can't even be trusted not to damage an anvil.

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On 18 May 2004 12:24:46 -0700, NuAngel@NuAngel.net (Garrett C.) wrote:

>The way I've ALWAYS understood it was that a CPU Shim was there to
>protect the CPU core during installation of a heatsink, or maybe,
>MAYBE, if you have a really heavy heatsink it will hold some of the
>weight of that off of the CPU.

It's not that it will hold weight off the CPU, the retention force against
the CPU needs be maintained. Rather it may keep a heatsink with a poor
clip from tilting sideways or somewhat minimize cracking corner of a core
during installation of difficult heatsinks, but from the user errors I've
seen it seems more common for a screwdriver to slip and gouge a board than
to crack the core.... use correct size screwdriver and take your time,
removing board from case if it impedes access to install it.


>
>But why are all of them being sold in cooling kits, or saying that
>they are Anodized for anti-static protection and developed for heat
>dissipation!? Is this not false advertising? Too many of my friends
>are lead to buy these things @ 10 or more dollars, when they don't
>even need them - they know how to put on a heatsink, they just think
>this miracle aluminum will cool their CPU!

Given that it's a dirt-cheap to make piece of metal or plastic, of course
they're going to offer silly feature descriptions... who'd buy it if all
it mentioned was "this is a fairly flat piece of plastic with 300%
markup".

>
>Are these things **EVER** worth the money to experienced installers (I
>can understand the safety for someone installing their first HS/F on a
>CPU)? Or is it all just a marketing gimmick?

Nope, never worth the money. If the heatsink installation is THAT dicey
then investigate why, some 'sinks had poor clips that were redesigned in
later revisions and simply shouldn't be used with a shim or without. Main
thing is always to take your time and watch carefully what you're doing,
use the right tool.

Garrett C. wrote:
> The way I've ALWAYS understood it was that a CPU Shim was there to
> protect the CPU core during installation of a heatsink, or maybe,
> MAYBE, if you have a really heavy heatsink it will hold some of the
> weight of that off of the CPU.
>
> But why are all of them being sold in cooling kits, or saying that
> they are Anodized for anti-static protection and developed for heat
> dissipation!? Is this not false advertising? Too many of my friends
> are lead to buy these things @ 10 or more dollars, when they don't
> even need them - they know how to put on a heatsink, they just think
> this miracle aluminum will cool their CPU!
>
> Are these things **EVER** worth the money to experienced installers (I
> can understand the safety for someone installing their first HS/F on a
> CPU)? Or is it all just a marketing gimmick?
>
> Curious about your thoughts.

Some of the earlier Socket A heatsinks were adopted with little or no
modification from Socket 370 dimension. As a result, inexperienced builders
would, on occasion, crack the rasied CPU core. The single lug clips could be
a little difficult to attach.
Shims helped to prevent core cracking. With the advent of three lug clips
and alternative fastening methods, the shim is no longer necessary.
I find the easiest way to attach a heatsink before it's in the case.Lay the
heatsink flat and square on the four pads. Establish the one end of the clip
beneath the three lugs. Place a credit card flush against the ZIF socket, to
protect the motherboard. Use a 3/16" flat screw driver to press straight
downward, perhaps with a slight prying motion outward, to seat the clip
under the three lugs. Release pressure and examine both sides to see if the
clips are indeed under the white lugs.

On Wed, 19 May 2004 03:05:09 GMT, "S.Heenan" <sheenan@wahs.ac> wrote:

>Some of the earlier Socket A heatsinks were adopted with little or no
>modification from Socket 370 dimension. As a result, inexperienced builders
>would, on occasion, crack the rasied CPU core. The single lug clips could be
>a little difficult to attach.
>Shims helped to prevent core cracking. With the advent of three lug clips
>and alternative fastening methods, the shim is no longer necessary.
>I find the easiest way to attach a heatsink before it's in the case.Lay the
>heatsink flat and square on the four pads. Establish the one end of the clip
>beneath the three lugs. Place a credit card flush against the ZIF socket, to
>protect the motherboard. Use a 3/16" flat screw driver to press straight
>downward, perhaps with a slight prying motion outward, to seat the clip
>under the three lugs. Release pressure and examine both sides to see if the
>clips are indeed under the white lugs.

Well heres my experience. My first Athlon was a 1 gig. I came from
Pents /celerons which either came with a fan and were slot loaded , or
were ridiculously easy to put the heatsink on. Id never even heard of
a chipped core.

So I bought my Athlon and put it on haphazardly as usual but the AMDs
supposedly ran hotter than Pents and had far more tension in the metal
clip. Theres a definite way to put it on but since I hadnt heard of
any of it - I proceeded to put it on anyway fumbling around with it
and it put a huge chip in it. I then looked it up on the net and there
were tons of sites. I think it was Directron or some other vendor that
had a rant about how a lot of their customers had chipped cores and
they actually took them back and ate the cost in the beginning and
wanted AMD to take them back. Other vendors also seemed to have a lot
of new cusotmers who cracked their cores and refused to take back ANY
chip that physically damaged in any way.

One other vendor said he had a stack of chipped core CPUs that they
chipped and several review sites even confessed that they chipped
cores and had pics of them.

I posted this on the net and of course was attacked as being a dufus -
NOBODY chips their cores but actually many were.

I then bought a shim but frankly never bothered to use it. If you put
it on a certain way it really minimizes cracking the core.

The one cardinal rule is never ever let the heatsink go down at an
angle. The super fragile edges of the core if anything is pressing
down on it at an angle even with slight force itll crumble away just
like that.

If you make sure its flat all the time and clip the side without the
ledge first - the plastic surrounding the CPU rises up and is higher
than the CPU surfae on one side which I call the ledge - then you cant
push it down at an angle on that side cause the ledge provides a stop.
And thats the side you usually push down - the last side you clip .
The first side you clip on is easy no tension. The side thats left is
the side you push down on with your screwdriver and thats the side you
want the ledge on .

Its still fairly easy to crumble the ledge if you get careless. I
havent chipped a chip since then but I can see how it could be done
even if you arent careless. The 80mm fan heatsink I bought for a 1.4
was so massive that it was hard to see anything and keep it flat.
Anyslight slips and that could have easily broken a chunk off of the
core.

On Tue, 18 May 2004 23:45:52 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:

>It's not that it will hold weight off the CPU, the retention force against
>the CPU needs be maintained. Rather it may keep a heatsink with a poor
>clip from tilting sideways or somewhat minimize cracking corner of a core
>during installation of difficult heatsinks, but from the user errors I've
>seen it seems more common for a screwdriver to slip and gouge a board than
>to crack the core.... use correct size screwdriver and take your time,
>removing board from case if it impedes access to install it.


Thats another error. I mentioned that I came from Pents and Celerons
so the tension on the clips was super easy then and I actually tried
to use my fingers !! Then I tried screwdrivers and the small one I
had was hard to keep in the slot.

I noticed some boards now have a small clear plastic sheet around that
area.

Another funny thing around that time when the Athlon 1 gig was out and
there were actually a lot of sites talking about chipping you cores
and shims - some sites talked about bad shims. Another thing to worry
about Some shims some claimed were really poor and not the right
thickness , preventing the heatsink from touching the core so that the
CPU would burn up - ha .

On Wed, 19 May 2004 03:50:43 GMT, "John@Smith.com"
<xxxxspud@newscene.com> wrote:

>On Tue, 18 May 2004 23:45:52 GMT, kony <spam@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>It's not that it will hold weight off the CPU, the retention force against
>>the CPU needs be maintained. Rather it may keep a heatsink with a poor
>>clip from tilting sideways or somewhat minimize cracking corner of a core
>>during installation of difficult heatsinks, but from the user errors I've
>>seen it seems more common for a screwdriver to slip and gouge a board than
>>to crack the core.... use correct size screwdriver and take your time,
>>removing board from case if it impedes access to install it.
>
>
>Thats another error. I mentioned that I came from Pents and Celerons
>so the tension on the clips was super easy then and I actually tried
>to use my fingers !! Then I tried screwdrivers and the small one I
>had was hard to keep in the slot.
>
>I noticed some boards now have a small clear plastic sheet around that
>area.
>
>Another funny thing around that time when the Athlon 1 gig was out and
>there were actually a lot of sites talking about chipping you cores
>and shims - some sites talked about bad shims. Another thing to worry
>about Some shims some claimed were really poor and not the right
>thickness , preventing the heatsink from touching the core so that the
>CPU would burn up - ha .
>

I've never used anything but my bare hands to install a HSF. And I've
never had a major problem.

The secret is...patience! lol

P.S. I've made quite a few bucks from customers who've had a
screwdriver slip! lol


Have a nice week...

Trent©

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!

On Wed, 19 May 2004 11:16:00 -0400, Trent© <trentsauder@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>I've never used anything but my bare hands to install a HSF. And I've
>never had a major problem.
>
>The secret is...patience! lol
>
>P.S. I've made quite a few bucks from customers who've had a
>screwdriver slip! lol

You must have some strong fingers/thumb.

One of the comments about Athlons at the time from people used to
Pents was how freaking strong the clips were. Lots of people mentioned
it claiming it was needed for the AMDs. some requirement by AMD to
have so and so pressure or it couldnt be recommended by AMD.

Anyway this guy even had a website showing you how to weaken the
tension on it , some people thought it was so strong. Actually Im used
to it now and it doesnt seem that bad but its still difficult to do it
with your fingers.

Well, I want to thank everyone for clearing some of my confusion up,
but overall backing up my original idea. These things simply aren't
worth $10. Not a terrible idea for those nervous about installing
their first CPU, but for those of us who've built several computers or
swap HS/F's on a regular basis, they just aren't worth their cost.

Thanks to everyone for the tons of replies! Good information to be
found in this thread.

Garrett C.