Disc cloning question

Greetings all!

I own a Dell 8250 with a 2.8 P4 chip, 512 meg of memory, and a 120 gig WD
hard drive. I recently purchased a second WD 120 drive, and an Adaptec RAID
card. I'd like to set up a RAID 0 configuration.

Now my question: I understand that when you enable the RAID setup, you lose
all existing data on your hard drive, so I'd like to clone the drive to
either CDRs or DVDs. My system has a Plextor 708A DVD writer in it. What's
the best software with which to do said cloning? I've heard good and bad
things about Norton Ghost, but I'd like to hear some suggestions from this
group. I guess I'm looking for software to clone the drive, and then allow
me to put all of my data back on to the RAID setup without having to
reinstall software. Is this possible? And, will the cloned data also keep
network settings, passwords, etc?

TIA,
Barry

Barry Delfino wrote:
> Greetings all!
>
> I own a Dell 8250 with a 2.8 P4 chip, 512 meg of memory, and a 120
> gig WD hard drive. I recently purchased a second WD 120 drive, and an
> Adaptec RAID card. I'd like to set up a RAID 0 configuration.
>
> Now my question: I understand that when you enable the RAID setup,
> you lose all existing data on your hard drive, so I'd like to clone
> the drive to either CDRs or DVDs. My system has a Plextor 708A DVD
> writer in it. What's the best software with which to do said cloning?
> I've heard good and bad things about Norton Ghost, but I'd like to
> hear some suggestions from this group. I guess I'm looking for
> software to clone the drive, and then allow me to put all of my data
> back on to the RAID setup without having to reinstall software. Is
> this possible? And, will the cloned data also keep network settings,
> passwords, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Barry

I prefer Drive Image - you can back up under Windows (you can't do so with
Ghost), you can also back-up to the same drive as you're backing up (useful
if it's the only drive with space) and you can back up to removable media
(the last version of Ghost I used didn't have that option). Unfortunately,
PQ is now owned by Symantec, so Goddess only knows what they'll do with it!

"Barry Delfino" said in news:E-ednbL4g-7wFvzd4p2dnA@comcast.com:
> Greetings all!
>
> I own a Dell 8250 with a 2.8 P4 chip, 512 meg of memory, and a 120
> gig WD hard drive. I recently purchased a second WD 120 drive, and an
> Adaptec RAID card. I'd like to set up a RAID 0 configuration.
>
> Now my question: I understand that when you enable the RAID setup,
> you lose all existing data on your hard drive, so I'd like to clone
> the drive to either CDRs or DVDs. My system has a Plextor 708A DVD
> writer in it. What's the best software with which to do said cloning?
> I've heard good and bad things about Norton Ghost, but I'd like to
> hear some suggestions from this group. I guess I'm looking for
> software to clone the drive, and then allow me to put all of my data
> back on to the RAID setup without having to reinstall software. Is
> this possible? And, will the cloned data also keep network settings,
> passwords, etc?
>
> TIA,
> Barry

Powerquest claims DriveImage supports RAID 0. DriveImage creates physical image files in that it reads the sectors from the hard disk. It also skips the unused sectors (so they are not recorded in the image file but just tracked). At one time, I got Norton Systemworks 2002 Pro which included Ghost so I tested it for awhile but found it had some nasty deficiencies mentioned below (but most can be overcome with command-line switches). If DriveImage supports recovery to RAID 0 then I would suspect so would Ghost. I went back to DriveImage.

Problems I had with Norton Ghost:

- It boots using IBM MS-DOS (that was the included DOS). IBM DOS is known for not being as hardware compatible as MS-DOS; i.e., there are some hardware configurations that will be flaky under IBM DOS (and mine was one of them apparently). You can create an image of a bootable floppy made with another DOS, like MS-DOS, and store that so Ghost will then use that when it creates a bootable floppy. However, you then have to buy another operating system since NT-based versions of Windows don't bother to include plain MS-DOS on a bootable floppy, and that requirement is not mentioned in the product. At the time, I didn't know about http://www.bootdisk.com to obtain images of MS-DOS (and which Microsoft knows about and even recommends in one of the KB articles). DriveImage uses CalderaDOS with which I've had no problems across 3 home PCs.

- Ghost defaults to a logical read of the disk when writing its image file. That means it has to open files. I had EFS (encrypted file system) used to protect some data directories. On a restore, and because the files are being read (instead of just reading the binary contents of a sector), the restore would fail on the EFS-protected files. I had to remove EFS, create the image, do the restore or clone, and then reinstantiate EFS. Sucks royal.

- There is a command-line switch (I think it is -IA) that switches ghost from logical reading to physical reading of the drive (so it then operates more like DriveImage). However, there is no command-line switch to also have it skip empty, or unused, sectors from the image file. So the image file was far larger compared against what I got with DriveImage. You'll end up consuming far more CDs to store Ghost's physical image file.

That was 2 versions ago with Ghost. Perhaps Symantec has enhanced their product since then. I doubt it. Symantec is a large software predator consuming software companies, like Norton and now Powerquest (so I fear for PartitionMagic's and DriveImage's future quality and survivability). Everything Symantec buys then wanes over the years. That's why I doubt there has been significant improvement in Ghost over the last couple years. Might be why they decided to eat up Powerquest.

You might want to throws a pre-sales e-mail at Powerquest, er, Symantec, to see if Ghost will handle RAID 0 drive configurations (using an image file created in a non-RAID configuration). I didn't find any appropriate KB articles at Symantec's web site when selecting "Ghost 2003" as the product and version and searching on "RAID clone". I did find their KB article at http://snipurl.com/5ak6 which says, "Symantec Ghost 8.0 and earlier, and Norton Ghost 2003 and earlier, do not support RAID controllers". Norton Ghost 2003 is the latest "personal" version. There is a "Symantec" or corporation of ghost and maybe it supports RAID but I doubt you want to pay for their corporate version. See, I told you all Symantec products wane. Symantec is a software publisher (i.e., predator), not a developer. That's why I fear for Powerquest's products now that Symantec bought Powerquest.

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*Vanguard* wrote:
> "Barry Delfino" said in news:E-ednbL4g-7wFvzd4p2dnA@comcast.com:
>> Greetings all!
>>
>> I own a Dell 8250 with a 2.8 P4 chip, 512 meg of memory, and a 120
>> gig WD hard drive. I recently purchased a second WD 120 drive, and an
>> Adaptec RAID card. I'd like to set up a RAID 0 configuration.
>>
>> Now my question: I understand that when you enable the RAID setup,
>> you lose all existing data on your hard drive, so I'd like to clone
>> the drive to either CDRs or DVDs. My system has a Plextor 708A DVD
>> writer in it. What's the best software with which to do said cloning?
>> I've heard good and bad things about Norton Ghost, but I'd like to
>> hear some suggestions from this group. I guess I'm looking for
>> software to clone the drive, and then allow me to put all of my data
>> back on to the RAID setup without having to reinstall software. Is
>> this possible? And, will the cloned data also keep network settings,
>> passwords, etc?
>>
>> TIA,
>> Barry
>
> Powerquest claims DriveImage supports RAID 0. DriveImage creates
> physical image files in that it reads the sectors from the hard disk.
> It also skips the unused sectors (so they are not recorded in the
> image file but just tracked). At one time, I got Norton Systemworks
> 2002 Pro which included Ghost so I tested it for awhile but found it
> had some nasty deficiencies mentioned below (but most can be overcome
> with command-line switches). If DriveImage supports recovery to RAID
> 0 then I would suspect so would Ghost. I went back to DriveImage.
>
> Problems I had with Norton Ghost:
>
> - It boots using IBM MS-DOS (that was the included DOS). IBM DOS is
> known for not being as hardware compatible as MS-DOS; i.e., there are
> some hardware configurations that will be flaky under IBM DOS (and
> mine was one of them apparently). You can create an image of a
> bootable floppy made with another DOS, like MS-DOS, and store that so
> Ghost will then use that when it creates a bootable floppy. However,
> you then have to buy another operating system since NT-based versions
> of Windows don't bother to include plain MS-DOS on a bootable floppy,
> and that requirement is not mentioned in the product. At the time, I
> didn't know about http://www.bootdisk.com to obtain images of MS-DOS
> (and which Microsoft knows about and even recommends in one of the KB
> articles). DriveImage uses CalderaDOS with which I've had no
> problems across 3 home PCs.
>
> - Ghost defaults to a logical read of the disk when writing its image
> file. That means it has to open files. I had EFS (encrypted file
> system) used to protect some data directories. On a restore, and
> because the files are being read (instead of just reading the binary
> contents of a sector), the restore would fail on the EFS-protected
> files. I had to remove EFS, create the image, do the restore or
> clone, and then reinstantiate EFS. Sucks royal.
>
> - There is a command-line switch (I think it is -IA) that switches
> ghost from logical reading to physical reading of the drive (so it
> then operates more like DriveImage). However, there is no
> command-line switch to also have it skip empty, or unused, sectors
> from the image file. So the image file was far larger compared
> against what I got with DriveImage. You'll end up consuming far more
> CDs to store Ghost's physical image file.
>
> That was 2 versions ago with Ghost. Perhaps Symantec has enhanced
> their product since then. I doubt it. Symantec is a large software
> predator consuming software companies, like Norton and now Powerquest
> (so I fear for PartitionMagic's and DriveImage's future quality and
> survivability). Everything Symantec buys then wanes over the years.
> That's why I doubt there has been significant improvement in Ghost
> over the last couple years. Might be why they decided to eat up
> Powerquest.
>
> You might want to throws a pre-sales e-mail at Powerquest, er,
> Symantec, to see if Ghost will handle RAID 0 drive configurations
> (using an image file created in a non-RAID configuration). I didn't
> find any appropriate KB articles at Symantec's web site when
> selecting "Ghost 2003" as the product and version and searching on
> "RAID clone". I did find their KB article at http://snipurl.com/5ak6
> which says, "Symantec Ghost 8.0 and earlier, and Norton Ghost 2003
> and earlier, do not support RAID controllers". Norton Ghost 2003 is
> the latest "personal" version. There is a "Symantec" or corporation
> of ghost and maybe it supports RAID but I doubt you want to pay for
> their corporate version. See, I told you all Symantec products wane.
> Symantec is a software publisher (i.e., predator), not a developer.
> That's why I fear for Powerquest's products now that Symantec bought
> Powerquest.

Great minds, great minds. I have bought both DI and PM for years, but 7 and
8 will be the last versions I'll buy. I will admit to being a NAV user years
back, but I wouldn't touch it with a 200' barge pole now. Everything
Symantec touches is turned to dust.