Re: Power supply fan airflow direction

Halfgaar Babbled on and on and on about:

> Wheat Muncher wrote:
>
>> I would have thought the same, until I tried it. It actually caused
>> my case temp to rise a good 10 degrees celcius, which in turn made
>> everything a bit hotter. As it stands also, AMD's need the PSU to
>> draw the hot air off of the heatsink in order to keep the cooling
>> efficient.
>
> Is that a fact? Hmm. Well, what about when you CPU is watercooled, as
> is the case with mine. The heat of the CPU is cooled by the radiator
> in the front-bottom of the case.
>
> But keeping this in mind, I think I need to build in some kind of
> extra fan at the top-back of the case, because the PSU is cooled with
> a papst 12 db, which hardly moves any air (see my reply to Ken's
> message as well).
>
> Halfgaar

Water cooled? Cool. how is that working out? I have seen and read so much
about, but I am a little leary to try it.
As for building an extra cooling setup, here is one thing I have done:
First, if you can find an alternate fan that will match the size of
you're Papst, then change it, right away, and make sure the airflow is in
the right direction. Sometimes I have found that a little extra noise is
well worth it.
Also, on either the bottom or face of the PSU, where the grill is for the
intake inside the case, silicone/crazy glue/ JB weld a small fan blowing
air into the PSU. Just a thought.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... gimme the ball, gimme the ball, gimme, gimme, gimme.

> > Water cooled? Cool. how is that working out? I have seen and read so
much
> > about, but I am a little leary to try it.
>
> It's working out great, but I would be better if I had a bigtower. If I
had
> a bigtower, I could mount a 120mm fan an the top, let it run very slowly
> and create a lot of airflow that way while still being silent.
> My setup still requires a lot of tweaking. I've used silver paste against
> Tomshardware's and Innovatek's (manufacturer) recommendations for example.
>
> Check out http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20020701/index.html. That's
the
> watercooling system I use. Except that I only cool the CPU and GPU.
There's
> also a divx movie you can download which shows how to build a watercooling
> system.
> And should you hastely decide to build a watercooling setup, make sure you
> put anitcorrosion liquid in the water. Tomshardware doesn't mention
> anything about it, which puzzles me. Look on forums and the like for what
> happens when you use aluminium and copper in the same setup without
> corrosion protection...
>
If I recall my Physics correctly, it is only a problem if you use different
metals in your system. An all Al or all Cu system shouldn't cause problems
and multi-metal systems should be avoided if possible.

Halfgaar Babbled on and on and on about:

> Wheat Muncher wrote:
>
>> Water cooled? Cool. how is that working out? I have seen and read so
>> much about, but I am a little leary to try it.
>
> It's working out great, but I would be better if I had a bigtower. If
> I had a bigtower, I could mount a 120mm fan an the top, let it run
> very slowly and create a lot of airflow that way while still being
> silent. My setup still requires a lot of tweaking. I've used silver
> paste against Tomshardware's and Innovatek's (manufacturer)
> recommendations for example.
>
> Check out http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20020701/index.html.
> That's the watercooling system I use. Except that I only cool the CPU
> and GPU. There's also a divx movie you can download which shows how to
> build a watercooling system.
> And should you hastely decide to build a watercooling setup, make sure
> you put anitcorrosion liquid in the water. Tomshardware doesn't
> mention anything about it, which puzzles me. Look on forums and the
> like for what happens when you use aluminium and copper in the same
> setup without corrosion protection...
>
>> As for building an extra cooling setup, here is one thing I have
>> done: First, if you can find an alternate fan that will match the
>> size of you're Papst, then change it, right away, and make sure the
>> airflow is in the right direction. Sometimes I have found that a
>> little extra noise is well worth it.
>
> Well, the thing is, I changed the original fan with this Papst . The
> original one makes a whole lot of racket. Maybe I should try an
> Enermax or something similair.
>
>> Also, on either the bottom or face of the PSU, where the grill is for
>> the intake inside the case, silicone/crazy glue/ JB weld a small fan
>> blowing air into the PSU. Just a thought.
>
> When the cover of my case is off, the PSU stays luke-warm, so I think
> I have to find some other way of removing the hot air. I'm
> experimenting with a small Pentium-fan at the back at the moment. I
> mounted it to a grill and covered all the holes of the grill not
> covered by the fan. The case stays cooler, but I need a fanduct
> because the fan being so close to the grill gives a lot of turbulence
> and therefore noise.
>
> Halfgaar

Thanks. I'll check it out.
Seen the two (aluminum and copper) used together in cheap assed poorly
repaired radiators back in my wrench head days. gets pretty ugly.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... gimme the ball, gimme the ball, gimme, gimme, gimme.

CK Babbled on and on and on about:

>> > Water cooled? Cool. how is that working out? I have seen and read
>> > so
> much
>> > about, but I am a little leary to try it.
>>
>> It's working out great, but I would be better if I had a bigtower. If
>> I
> had
>> a bigtower, I could mount a 120mm fan an the top, let it run very
>> slowly and create a lot of airflow that way while still being silent.
>> My setup still requires a lot of tweaking. I've used silver paste
>> against Tomshardware's and Innovatek's (manufacturer) recommendations
>> for example.
>>
>> Check out http://www.tomshardware.com/howto/20020701/index.html.
>> That's
> the
>> watercooling system I use. Except that I only cool the CPU and GPU.
> There's
>> also a divx movie you can download which shows how to build a
>> watercooling system.
>> And should you hastely decide to build a watercooling setup, make
>> sure you put anitcorrosion liquid in the water. Tomshardware doesn't
>> mention anything about it, which puzzles me. Look on forums and the
>> like for what happens when you use aluminium and copper in the same
>> setup without corrosion protection...
>>
> If I recall my Physics correctly, it is only a problem if you use
> different metals in your system. An all Al or all Cu system shouldn't
> cause problems and multi-metal systems should be avoided if possible.
>
>
>

But corrosion is a boon of copper. Look inside you're radiator of you're
car for example. If you have an older model, the core is probably copper
( a good thing) but the corrosion that builds up is horrible. They are
aptly named "Tin Worms" because they are just that.... little worm like
chunks that resemble tin. Once this starts, you had better believe that a
rupture is soon to follow.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... gimme the ball, gimme the ball, gimme, gimme, gimme.

CBFalconer Babbled on and on and on about:

> CK wrote:
>>
> ... snip ...
>>
>> > And should you hastely decide to build a watercooling setup,
>> > make sure you put anitcorrosion liquid in the water.
>> > Tomshardware doesn't mention anything about it, which puzzles
>> > me. Look on forums and the like for what happens when you use
>> > aluminium and copper in the same setup without corrosion
>> > protection...
>> >
>> If I recall my Physics correctly, it is only a problem if you
>> use different metals in your system. An all Al or all Cu system
>> shouldn't cause problems and multi-metal systems should be
>> avoided if possible.
>
> And don't build things out of mating threaded aluminum parts.
> Those will inevitably sieze and need to be chopped up to separate.
>

Thanks for the heads up. I am actually thinking of using a braided
hydraulic tubing joined to small copper tubing at the heat points. The
braided tubing is high stress, so I shouldn't have trouble with it, and
it is coated inside for corrosion. I have used it before in cooling
setups for my oil cooler. Tough stuff. Might have a good use for it now.
i am going to build my own radiator inside to make the best use of a
MASSIVE case, so the airflow won't be an issue and I need an excuse to
play around with my new rig. I have a small duct job I am working on that
will run outside for fresh air, then into a filter to keep out the
critters. I just have to figure out a way to construct a proper heatsink
for the whole works, and I'm laughing. Might get the local welding guru
to melt down a bit of copper for me to make something out of.

--
Wheaty...


Gimme the ball... gimme the ball, gimme the ball, gimme, gimme, gimme.

CK wrote:

> If I recall my Physics correctly, it is only a problem if you use
> different metals in your system. An all Al or all Cu system shouldn't
> cause problems and multi-metal systems should be avoided if possible.

Using one kind of metal usually prevents corrosion, true. But using
destilled water with corrosion protection is a must, and it improves heat
tranfer as well.

Halfgaar
--
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On Wed, 25 Jun 2003 01:07:30 +0200, Halfgaar <voor_achter@nospam.com>
wrote:


>I'll consider the extra fan option, but I'm not sure. I've been doing a
>little experimentation with other computers. One of my other computers
>creates quite a substantion airflow without much noise, I can also feel in
>intake draft very well at the holes in the back of the PSU. With this PSU
>there is hardly even intake airflow with the original fan. This PSU is
>packed with components (the one from that other computer is not), so I
>guess it's preventing airflow and increasing turbulence.

It has small air inlet holes or slits? Most decent >300W PSU have
quite open areas on the back, or a fan underneith, or both.


>
>>
>> If, when you write "cover of my case is off, the PSU stays luke-warm",
>> you mean that the PSU casing is warm, then the PSU is running too hot.
>> The casing of an fan-cooled PSU should not get warm, except in rare
>> instances when the power supply's heatsinks are futher 'sinked to the
>> PSU chassis... this is more common in proprietary-shaped or 1U and
>> redundant PSU, but not common in PC PS2 sized PSU.
>
>I indeed meant that the PSU casing is warm, but not much. But I can't
>imagine that it's suppose to stay cold. I believe that even with the
>original fan it got warm. Perhaps all the compontents inside I talked about
>above prevent good airflow. Maybe I should be looking for another PSU.

"Warm" may be a relative term, but normally a PSU casing isn't going
to be more than a very few degrees above the case air temp. As I
mentioned before, you'll have to decide for yourself if you're willing
to reduce the lifespan of the PSU for reduced noise. It is clear that
a cooler-running PSU will last longer, and the hot air may also be
unkind to the Pabst sleeve-bearing fan. (IIRC, their 12db model uses a
sleeve-bearing, right?)

>
>BTW, I've made some changes to my fan-setup. I now have my intake fan
>mounted differently. My case temp is 32 degrees C now, afters hours of
>being mostly idle, with an ambient temp of 25 C. That is a reasonable temp,
>is it not?
>
>Halfgaar

Case temp is within normal range, but when you reduce airflow more
attention needs be paid to the thermally-sensitive parts that don't
have temp sensors. Ultimately only you can make the final call.


Dave