scanning in rolls of film

Greetings,
I have searched the archives and yet to find a solution to this, but
here is a most challenging question. I have 100 foot rolls of Ektachrome
slides (from research surveys of the sea floor) and need to scan in
portions of the film. We used to use a manual slider through a Polaroid
Sprintscan model, but that one crapped out and isn't recommended or made
like it was anymore.
Now we have a Nikon LS5000 with the SA-30 adapter. Trick is that it only
accepts up to 40 slides. Interestingly, the adapter seems to be
hardwired to do this - i.e. physically the roller will only take 40, but
even with the adapter removed, and feeding the film out the back of the
scanner, the limit is still 40. I thought this was a software problem,
but now I am not so sure. I tried a version of vuescan and it too
receives a limit of 40 slides. Any attempt to restart the software at
the 40 mark to keep going through the roll has failed. Nikon support has
been predictably unsupportive.
Hopefully this is clear, but I am stumped and looking to the gods of
newsgroupland to help.
Cheers,
Nick

"Peter_Wimsey" <hayman@duke.edunospam> wrote in message
news:c7oqco$rvu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> Greetings,
> I have searched the archives and yet to find a solution to this, but
> here is a most challenging question. I have 100 foot rolls of Ektachrome
> slides (from research surveys of the sea floor) and need to scan in
> portions of the film. We used to use a manual slider through a Polaroid
> Sprintscan model, but that one crapped out and isn't recommended or made
> like it was anymore.
> Now we have a Nikon LS5000 with the SA-30 adapter. Trick is that it only
> accepts up to 40 slides. Interestingly, the adapter seems to be
> hardwired to do this - i.e. physically the roller will only take 40, but
> even with the adapter removed, and feeding the film out the back of the
> scanner, the limit is still 40. I thought this was a software problem,
> but now I am not so sure. I tried a version of vuescan and it too
> receives a limit of 40 slides. Any attempt to restart the software at
> the 40 mark to keep going through the roll has failed. Nikon support has
> been predictably unsupportive.
> Hopefully this is clear, but I am stumped and looking to the gods of
> newsgroupland to help.
> Cheers,
> Nick

The 40 frame limit may be a mechanical limit of the Nikon.

The only suggestion I can give is to cut the 100 ft rolls into 40 frames
each cut.
Which you may not want to do.

It may be possible to use a Epson 3200 Photo or 4870 Photo flatbed and feed
the film in a continuous strip manually.

The more automatic the machine is, the less control you have.

Another possibly, is to get a slide duplicator and a 5-6 megapixel digital
camera with macro of 1:1 magnification. That is not the 20 megapixels or
more of a 4000 dpi scanner.

Maybe a Movie digitizing company can handle 35mm film with vertical frames.
Movie film has the frames horizontal to the width of the film.

--
CSM1
http://www.carlmcmillan.com
--

CSM1 wrote:

>
> The 40 frame limit may be a mechanical limit of the Nikon.
>

It is in the firmware, for understandable reasons, but it is limiting.

> The only suggestion I can give is to cut the 100 ft rolls into 40 frames
> each cut.
> Which you may not want to do.
>

If there was an easy and safe way to splice together the pieces I would
do that. But ektachrome slide film is not ammeanable to splicing.


> It may be possible to use a Epson 3200 Photo or 4870 Photo flatbed and feed
> the film in a continuous strip manually.
>
> The more automatic the machine is, the less control you have.
>
> Another possibly, is to get a slide duplicator and a 5-6 megapixel digital
> camera with macro of 1:1 magnification. That is not the 20 megapixels or
> more of a 4000 dpi scanner.
This is actually a good idea. I will try it.


>
> Maybe a Movie digitizing company can handle 35mm film with vertical frames.
> Movie film has the frames horizontal to the width of the film.
>

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:00:07 -0400, Peter_Wimsey
<hayman@duke.edunospam> wrote:

>Greetings,
>I have searched the archives and yet to find a solution to this, but
>here is a most challenging question. I have 100 foot rolls of Ektachrome
>slides (from research surveys of the sea floor) and need to scan in
>portions of the film. We used to use a manual slider through a Polaroid
>Sprintscan model, but that one crapped out and isn't recommended or made
>like it was anymore.
>Now we have a Nikon LS5000 with the SA-30 adapter. Trick is that it only
>accepts up to 40 slides. Interestingly, the adapter seems to be
>hardwired to do this - i.e. physically the roller will only take 40, but
>even with the adapter removed, and feeding the film out the back of the
>scanner, the limit is still 40. I thought this was a software problem,
>but now I am not so sure. I tried a version of vuescan and it too
>receives a limit of 40 slides. Any attempt to restart the software at
>the 40 mark to keep going through the roll has failed. Nikon support has
>been predictably unsupportive.
>Hopefully this is clear, but I am stumped and looking to the gods of
>newsgroupland to help.
>Cheers,
>Nick


Usually limits such as that are in the scanner firmware.

For the price of your setup Nikon should give you better support. Ask
them how to get the firmware revision of your scanner and if there is
any firmware upgrade available. That question should stump the lower
tier support and get you up to a higher level.

I wonder if it would be possible for a programmer to write a software
script that would detect the message and restart the scanning
automatically after the 40 frame limit. Just finding a good programmer
would be the key.

Good luck!

Go with the movie production house, I think they call it a flying spot
scanner.


"CSM1" <nomoremail@nomail.com> wrote in message
news:NtXnc.9119$DW.6963@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com...
> "Peter_Wimsey" <hayman@duke.edunospam> wrote in message
> news:c7oqco$rvu$1@nntp6.u.washington.edu...
> > Greetings,
> > I have searched the archives and yet to find a solution to this, but
> > here is a most challenging question. I have 100 foot rolls of Ektachrome
> > slides (from research surveys of the sea floor) and need to scan in
> > portions of the film. We used to use a manual slider through a Polaroid
> > Sprintscan model, but that one crapped out and isn't recommended or made
> > like it was anymore.
> > Now we have a Nikon LS5000 with the SA-30 adapter. Trick is that it only
> > accepts up to 40 slides. Interestingly, the adapter seems to be
> > hardwired to do this - i.e. physically the roller will only take 40, but
> > even with the adapter removed, and feeding the film out the back of the
> > scanner, the limit is still 40. I thought this was a software problem,
> > but now I am not so sure. I tried a version of vuescan and it too
> > receives a limit of 40 slides. Any attempt to restart the software at
> > the 40 mark to keep going through the roll has failed. Nikon support has
> > been predictably unsupportive.
> > Hopefully this is clear, but I am stumped and looking to the gods of
> > newsgroupland to help.
> > Cheers,
> > Nick
>
> The 40 frame limit may be a mechanical limit of the Nikon.
>
> The only suggestion I can give is to cut the 100 ft rolls into 40 frames
> each cut.
> Which you may not want to do.
>
> It may be possible to use a Epson 3200 Photo or 4870 Photo flatbed and
feed
> the film in a continuous strip manually.
>
> The more automatic the machine is, the less control you have.
>
> Another possibly, is to get a slide duplicator and a 5-6 megapixel digital
> camera with macro of 1:1 magnification. That is not the 20 megapixels or
> more of a 4000 dpi scanner.
>
> Maybe a Movie digitizing company can handle 35mm film with vertical
frames.
> Movie film has the frames horizontal to the width of the film.
>
> --
> CSM1
> http://www.carlmcmillan.com
> --
>

On Tue, 11 May 2004 at 15:43 GMT, Al wrote:
> On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:00:07 -0400, Peter_Wimsey wrote:
>
>> Greetings,
>>
>> I have searched the archives and yet to find a solution to this, but
>> here is a most challenging question. I have 100 foot rolls of
>> Ektachrome slides (from research surveys of the sea floor) and need
>> to scan in portions of the film. We used to use a manual slider
>> through a Polaroid Sprintscan model, but that one crapped out and
>> isn't recommended or made like it was anymore.
>>
>> Now we have a Nikon LS5000 with the SA-30 adapter. Trick is that it
>> only accepts up to 40 slides. Interestingly, the adapter seems to be
>> hardwired to do this - i.e. physically the roller will only take 40,
>> but even with the adapter removed, and feeding the film out the back
>> of the scanner, the limit is still 40. I thought this was a software
>> problem, but now I am not so sure. I tried a version of vuescan and
>> it too receives a limit of 40 slides. Any attempt to restart the
>> software at the 40 mark to keep going through the roll has failed.
>> Nikon support has been predictably unsupportive.
>>
>> Hopefully this is clear, but I am stumped and looking to the gods of
>> newsgroupland to help.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Nick

> I wonder if it would be possible for a programmer to write a software
> script that would detect the message and restart the scanning
> automatically after the 40 frame limit. Just finding a good programmer
> would be the key.

Well, I pay the bills by writting C/C++ code for the Microsoft Windows
plateform and I just bought a Coolscan 5000 ED. If Nick is interested
in talking to be about a custom software solution I would be open to
such a discussion.

Now, if the problem is in the firmware (hardware) it will really depend
on what types of signals the software gets. I have not looked at the
SDK (Software Development Kit) for the Coolscan 5000, but here is how I
would imagine the scan works:

H for hardware and S for Software:
----------------------------------
1:H: signals that film was inserted
2:S: asks for film to be thumbnail previewed
3:H: scans and provides scans to software
4:S: allows user to select images to preview
5:S: tells Hardware which images to preview
6:H: provides previews
7:S: allows user to tweak settings for each image and then select images to scan
8:S: Tell hardware which frames to scan, and parameters used for scans
9:H: scan images and provide files to software

If this is how things works, it will be in step 3 that the scanner's
firmware will hit 40 frames and assume that it is at the end of the
roll, software would not be able to do ANYTHING about it.

But then I would have to look at the SDK to be sure. I know that if I
was going to hard code this into firmware, this is how I would design
things. The reason would be security, security of the hardware because
I would assume the customer would have my hardware attached that can
only hold 40 frames of film and I would not want to hurt the scanner or
the film so I would prevent rough software from trying to scan more then
I knew the unit (as designed) can scan.

Sam

Al wrote:

> Usually limits such as that are in the scanner firmware.
>
> For the price of your setup Nikon should give you better support. Ask
> them how to get the firmware revision of your scanner and if there is
> any firmware upgrade available. That question should stump the lower
> tier support and get you up to a higher level.
>
> I wonder if it would be possible for a programmer to write a software
> script that would detect the message and restart the scanning
> automatically after the 40 frame limit. Just finding a good programmer
> would be the key.
>
> Good luck!

Yup - Firmware. I finally got them to send me an application to get a
software developers kit, but the fellow who runs Vuescan told me he
never was able to rekon with the 40 slide limit. I am a bit worried that
I could sink alot of time into programing and get nowhere. I am going to
raise a little more hell before petering out to an alternative.

N

> H for hardware and S for Software:
> ----------------------------------
> 1:H: signals that film was inserted
> 2:S: asks for film to be thumbnail previewed
> 3:H: scans and provides scans to software
> 4:S: allows user to select images to preview
> 5:S: tells Hardware which images to preview
> 6:H: provides previews
> 7:S: allows user to tweak settings for each image and then select images to scan
> 8:S: Tell hardware which frames to scan, and parameters used for scans
> 9:H: scan images and provide files to software
>
> If this is how things works, it will be in step 3 that the scanner's
> firmware will hit 40 frames and assume that it is at the end of the
> roll, software would not be able to do ANYTHING about it.

> Sam

I think you are correct Sam. That, and perhaps also in stage 6. Perhaps
there is no way to fake the Firmware out of thinking that it is up to
frame 40?

You are correct that the reason for the Firmware being the way it is is
that the SA-30 adapter comes with a roller that has a limited size. The
Firmware no doubt is to insure against a software glich overlowing into
the roller and potentially damaging the scanner. Personally, I find the
setup distasteful because it is so limiting. But it is now the industry
standard with the exception of a very higher end Canon model. Anyhow, it
sounds as though even with the developers kit the Firmware would still
prevent any progress on this problem.
Let me know if you have any lightbulbs go off.
Ciao,
N