VueScan raw file is not a true raw file!

VueScan present version 7.6.73

From VueScan Help: "Raw files are good for archiving as they contain as much
data as the scanner was able to produce without any operations that modify
the scanner data"

According to VueScan Help the Raw file should be independent of any colour
setting in VueScan, but it is not!
When I create a Raw file from a slide and choose the Built-in profile the
colour of this Raw file is different then when I save the same scan with an
ICC profile and all other settings the same. (I have checked this in Paint
Shop Pro after applying a gamma of 2.2. It is clearly visible.)

I discovered this after I saved raw files from a complete slide film to
process them later. When I read the Raw files later in VueScan, it looks
like the ICC Profile correction was applied two times. It turns out this
correction happened first when creating the Raw file and later a second time
when creating the TIFF file.

When I tested further with Raw files created more then a year before with a
much older version of VueScan, they did not show this problem.

Ed would you check this please?

With kind regards,
Henk de Jong

--
http://www.hsdejong.nl/
Nepal and Burma (Myanmar) - Photo Galleries

Hello, Henk de Jong
you wrote...

> When I create a Raw file from a slide and choose the Built-in profile the
> colour of this Raw file is different then when I save the same scan with an
> ICC profile and all other settings the same. (I have checked this in Paint
> Shop Pro after applying a gamma of 2.2. It is clearly visible.)

Did you use 'Raw output with: Scan' or 'Raw output with: Save'? If it
is with 'Save' at least IR-clean and grain reduction filters are
applied. May be this is the case for ICC profiles, too...

--
Erik Krause
Digital contrast problems: http://www.erik-krause.de/contrast

Hi Henk!

Nice to see a fellow ACFer here in the scanners newsgroup.

> Did you use 'Raw output with: Scan' or 'Raw output with: Save'? If it
> is with 'Save' at least IR-clean and grain reduction filters are
> applied. Maybe this is the case for ICC profiles, too...

Confirmed!

When using 'Raw output with: Save' not only the IR-Clean and Grain Reduction
filters, but also the colour profile will be applied.

I think this is not how it should work. Ed?

With kind regards,
Henk de Jong

--
http://www.hsdejong.nl/
Nepal and Burma (Myanmar) - Photo Galleries

> Hi Henk!

Hi Spoon2001,

> Nice to see a fellow ACFer here in the scanners newsgroup.

ACFer?


With kind regards,
Henk de Jong

--
http://www.hsdejong.nl/
Nepal and Burma (Myanmar) - Photo Galleries

So Henk, did you save your raw file at scan, or after? Your statement
"confirmed" did not clarify for me.

Mendel Leisk wrote:
> So Henk, did you save your raw file at scan, or after? Your statement
> "confirmed" did not clarify for me.

I choose "Raw output with: Save" and got the bad results.

When I save the Raw file with "Raw output with: Save" not only the IR-Clean
and Grain Reduction
filters, but also the colour profile will be applied.

When I save the Raw file with "Raw output with: Scan" my raw files are okay.

Personally I find the option "Raw output with:" not very clear, except that
the raw file is saved automatically after the scan or after clicking on the
Save button.

Still no comment from Ed Hamrick...


With kind regards,
--

Henk de Jong

--
http://www.hsdejong.nl/
Nepal and Burma (Myanmar) - Photo Galleries

"Henk de Jong" <henk@nospam-hsdejong.nl> wrote in message news:<40123e43$0$325$e4fe514c@news.xs4all.nl>...
> Mendel Leisk wrote:
> > So Henk, did you save your raw file at scan, or after? Your statement
> > "confirmed" did not clarify for me.
>
> I choose "Raw output with: Save" and got the bad results.
>
> When I save the Raw file with "Raw output with: Save" not only the IR-Clean
> and Grain Reduction
> filters, but also the colour profile will be applied.
>
> When I save the Raw file with "Raw output with: Scan" my raw files are okay.
>
> Personally I find the option "Raw output with:" not very clear, except that
> the raw file is saved automatically after the scan or after clicking on the
> Save button.
>
> Still no comment from Ed Hamrick...
>
>
> With kind regards,
> --
>
> Henk de Jong

I'm glad to hear the "saved at scan" files appear to have no
modification. I am doing dust and scratch cleaning directly on such
files, in photoshop, so these are my ultimate source files. I am
scanning silver based Tri-X, mostly, and in any event I do not have
infrared equiped scanner at present.

One modification I do believe is made to "saved at scan" raws, if you
set media type to color negative there is marked adjustment to the
color balance of the resultant raw file. I believe in this case
Vuescan adjusts the proportions of exposure of the red, green and blue
sensors, at the hardware level, making a rough adjustment for the
orange color mask. This is documented (somewhere) in the help file.
You can see the difference if you try scanning both ways, say as color
negative, then as black and white negative.

Cheers,

Mendel Leisk

Hello, Henk de Jong
you wrote...

> > Did you use 'Raw output with: Scan' or 'Raw output with: Save'? If it
> > is with 'Save' at least IR-clean and grain reduction filters are
> > applied. Maybe this is the case for ICC profiles, too...
>
> Confirmed!
>
> When using 'Raw output with: Save' not only the IR-Clean and Grain Reduction
> filters, but also the colour profile will be applied.

What if you switch profile to 'Built in'?

--
Erik Krause
Digital contrast problems: http://www.erik-krause.de/contrast

Hello, Henk de Jong
you wrote...

> Personally I find the option "Raw output with:" not very clear, except that
> the raw file is saved automatically after the scan or after clicking on the
> Save button.
>
> Still no comment from Ed Hamrick...

'Raw output with save' was introduced many versions ago, as there was a
request to save infrared cleaned files that where neither gamma
corrected, white balanced nor cropped. ICC correction is applied
directly to the RAW data, too...

--
Erik Krause
Digital contrast problems: http://www.erik-krause.de/contrast