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Old 09-03-2005, 02:27 AM   #1
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Default Clean up FP code?


I just saw this on a website and was wondering if you experts could comment
on whether "cleaning up" FP code is advisable b/c of download time.

*******
Clean Up Microsoft FrontPage Pages

Microsoft FrontPage is a popular web design program for those just learning
web design. Unfortunately, FrontPage also adds a lot of unneccessary code
(also referred to as "code bloat") which can add to the download time.

You can use this clean up tool to remove all the excess code from FrontPage
generated pages. This will result in quicker download times for visitors, as
well as making much neater source code.
******

Thanks,
Beverly
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 02:32 AM   #2
Chuck Davis
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?

"Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3E7F0B73-228C-4E50-933E-0F4E45F36DF6@microsoft.com...
>I just saw this on a website and was wondering if you experts could comment
> on whether "cleaning up" FP code is advisable b/c of download time.
>
> *******
> Clean Up Microsoft FrontPage Pages
>
> Microsoft FrontPage is a popular web design program for those just
> learning
> web design. Unfortunately, FrontPage also adds a lot of unneccessary code
> (also referred to as "code bloat") which can add to the download time.
>
> You can use this clean up tool to remove all the excess code from
> FrontPage
> generated pages. This will result in quicker download times for visitors,
> as
> well as making much neater source code.
> ******
>
> Thanks,
> Beverly

Dangerous snake oil.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 02:43 AM   #3
Thomas A. Rowe
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
Could result in never being able to edit the page again in FP.

You can avoid the so called "code bloat" by not using Themes, FP Navigation, FP2003 Behavior
(JavaScript), VML Graphics, FP Database components, instead use standard text hyperlink, single
image hyperlinks, hand code your ASP, etc.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:3E7F0B73-228C-4E50-933E-0F4E45F36DF6@microsoft.com...
>I just saw this on a website and was wondering if you experts could comment
> on whether "cleaning up" FP code is advisable b/c of download time.
>
> *******
> Clean Up Microsoft FrontPage Pages
>
> Microsoft FrontPage is a popular web design program for those just learning
> web design. Unfortunately, FrontPage also adds a lot of unneccessary code
> (also referred to as "code bloat") which can add to the download time.
>
> You can use this clean up tool to remove all the excess code from FrontPage
> generated pages. This will result in quicker download times for visitors, as
> well as making much neater source code.
> ******
>
> Thanks,
> Beverly
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 03:01 AM   #4
Trevor L.
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
Beverly,
I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.

Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
eyeball the code and change it manually

One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
--
Cheers,
Trevor L.


I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 04:47 PM   #5
=?Utf-8?B?QmV2ZXJseS1UZXhhcw==?=
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
Thanks for the validator site... It gave me an error that my document had no
doctype declaration and that this is mandatory for current markup languages.
Frontpage starts my code with:

<html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">

but it appears there's supposed to be something like this before:

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">


Does FP not insert this for some reason or is there something I should do?

Thanks,
Beverly


"Trevor L." wrote:

> Beverly,
> I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.
>
> Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
> true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
> rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
> eyeball the code and change it manually
>
> One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
> the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
> This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
> and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
> this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
> --
> Cheers,
> Trevor L.
>
>
> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>
>
>
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 05:07 PM   #6
Steve Easton
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Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
It's something you should do because you need to determine the proper type to use with your pages.
The most commonly used one is this:

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">

You should also add this ( or the proper equivilent ) if it's not already there:"

<meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">
--
Steve Easton
Microsoft MVP FrontPage
95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

"Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1F73EF13-C38A-4DD1-8BB8-98FC3DFA658C@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the validator site... It gave me an error that my document had no
> doctype declaration and that this is mandatory for current markup languages.
> Frontpage starts my code with:
>
> <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
> xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>
> but it appears there's supposed to be something like this before:
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
>
>
> Does FP not insert this for some reason or is there something I should do?
>
> Thanks,
> Beverly
>
>
> "Trevor L." wrote:
>
> > Beverly,
> > I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.
> >
> > Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
> > true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
> > rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
> > eyeball the code and change it manually
> >
> > One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
> > the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
> > This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
> > and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
> > this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
> > --
> > Cheers,
> > Trevor L.
> >
> >
> > I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> > http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
> >
> >
> >
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 05:10 PM   #7
Thomas A. Rowe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
FP has no way of know what DOCTYPE you would want to use. Because if you specify a DOCTYPE then you
have to make sure that all coding on the page meets that requirements of the specific DOCTYPE.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:1F73EF13-C38A-4DD1-8BB8-98FC3DFA658C@microsoft.com...
> Thanks for the validator site... It gave me an error that my document had no
> doctype declaration and that this is mandatory for current markup languages.
> Frontpage starts my code with:
>
> <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
> xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
> xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>
> but it appears there's supposed to be something like this before:
>
> <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
>
>
> Does FP not insert this for some reason or is there something I should do?
>
> Thanks,
> Beverly
>
>
> "Trevor L." wrote:
>
>> Beverly,
>> I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.
>>
>> Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
>> true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
>> rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
>> eyeball the code and change it manually
>>
>> One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
>> the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
>> This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
>> and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
>> this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
>> --
>> Cheers,
>> Trevor L.
>>
>>
>> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>>
>>
>>
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 06:37 PM   #8
Jim Scott
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 13:07:33 -0500, Steve Easton wrote:

> It's something you should do because you need to determine the proper type to use with your pages.
> The most commonly used one is this:
>
> <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.01 Transitional//EN"
> "http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd">
>
> You should also add this ( or the proper equivilent ) if it's not already there:"
>
> <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1">

Is that the same as charset=windows-1252 ?
--
Jim on Tyneside UK
Remove X to email me.
http://freespace.virgin.net/mr.jimscott/
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Old 09-03-2005, 08:19 PM   #9
=?Utf-8?B?QmV2ZXJseS1UZXhhcw==?=
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
So do you have to manually go in and add this to every website code or does
it really even need to be there? Could it not load properly on someone's
machine because it's missing?

Thanks,
Beverly

"Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:

> FP has no way of know what DOCTYPE you would want to use. Because if you specify a DOCTYPE then you
> have to make sure that all coding on the page meets that requirements of the specific DOCTYPE.
>
> --
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> ==============================================
> To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
>
> "Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:1F73EF13-C38A-4DD1-8BB8-98FC3DFA658C@microsoft.com...
> > Thanks for the validator site... It gave me an error that my document had no
> > doctype declaration and that this is mandatory for current markup languages.
> > Frontpage starts my code with:
> >
> > <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
> > xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
> >
> > but it appears there's supposed to be something like this before:
> >
> > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
> >
> >
> > Does FP not insert this for some reason or is there something I should do?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Beverly
> >
> >
> > "Trevor L." wrote:
> >
> >> Beverly,
> >> I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.
> >>
> >> Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
> >> true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
> >> rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
> >> eyeball the code and change it manually
> >>
> >> One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
> >> the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
> >> This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
> >> and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
> >> this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
> >> --
> >> Cheers,
> >> Trevor L.
> >>
> >>
> >> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
> >> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
>
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-03-2005, 08:26 PM   #10
Thomas A. Rowe
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: Clean up FP code?
It really only applies if you what to validate your pages.

--
==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:7BF285D1-11A3-47E6-8711-C6C04EB6E359@microsoft.com...
> So do you have to manually go in and add this to every website code or does
> it really even need to be there? Could it not load properly on someone's
> machine because it's missing?
>
> Thanks,
> Beverly
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:
>
>> FP has no way of know what DOCTYPE you would want to use. Because if you specify a DOCTYPE then
>> you
>> have to make sure that all coding on the page meets that requirements of the specific DOCTYPE.
>>
>> --
>> ==============================================
>> Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
>> WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
>> http://www.ycoln-resources.com
>> FrontPage Resources, WebCircle, MS KB Quick Links, etc.
>> ==============================================
>> To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
>> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
>>
>> "Beverly-Texas" <BeverlyTexas@discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
>> news:1F73EF13-C38A-4DD1-8BB8-98FC3DFA658C@microsoft.com...
>> > Thanks for the validator site... It gave me an error that my document had no
>> > doctype declaration and that this is mandatory for current markup languages.
>> > Frontpage starts my code with:
>> >
>> > <html xmlns:v="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml"
>> > xmlns="urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice"
>> > xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40">
>> >
>> > but it appears there's supposed to be something like this before:
>> >
>> > <!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict//EN"
>> > "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-strict.dtd">
>> >
>> >
>> > Does FP not insert this for some reason or is there something I should do?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Beverly
>> >
>> >
>> > "Trevor L." wrote:
>> >
>> >> Beverly,
>> >> I have read on this newsgroup and elsewhere about FP producing bloated code.
>> >>
>> >> Having used FP and then worked on the code it produces, that may well be
>> >> true. For example styles, fonts etc, may be specified for each element
>> >> rather than for a group of elements. The only way around this would be to
>> >> eyeball the code and change it manually
>> >>
>> >> One other place that may help is http://validator.w3.org/ which will check
>> >> the code (HTML or CSS) on a website for validity against the W3C standards.
>> >> This won't remove bloated code, however, and if the code was generated by FP
>> >> and used unchanged, it is unlikely that it would not validate. I just throw
>> >> this in for what it may be worth - my $AUS0.02 :-))
>> >> --
>> >> Cheers,
>> >> Trevor L.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I choose Polesoft Lockspam to fight spam, and you?
>> >> http://www.polesoft.com/refer.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>>
>>
>>
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