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Thailand floods and Seagate HD prices

 
 
Arno
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      4th Nov 2011
GMAN <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> In article <4eb3aecd$0$29364$(E-Mail Removed)>, Krypsis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>On 4/11/2011 5:04 AM, GMAN wrote:

[...]
> That was not my point. My point was that desktop drives can take sometimes as
> long as 2 minutes to retry and correct week or bad sectors. Usually this
> amount of time is enough for most hardware or software raid systems to throw
> up a fit and mark the drive bad and insist that it be removed from the array.


I have been running several RAID1 and RAID 5/6 arrays on consumer-grade
disks 24/7 for about 10 years now. The only issues I ever had
are that about 1-2 times a year the last 3-4 years (running
in IDE and SATA 2.5" notebook disks), a disk drops out of the
array(s) and becomes completely unresponsive. That happens with
Seagate, Samsung and WD drives and I have not been able to identify
a pattern. It is not a kernel issue (this is Linux software
RAID), as the drive stays unresponsive until power-cycled.
Then it comes back cleanly, no errors, no SMART error log
entries and hot-plugs fine.

My take is that if you have a dumb hardware controller (most are
pretty dumb) or it is hard to get to the individual drives,
these "RAID" drives may be worth the extra money, otherwise they
probably are not. Side note: Because of the disks dropping out,
I run 3-way RAID1 or RAID6, so I have time to reactivate
the locked-up drive at my leisure as the arrays are still
redundant.

Arno
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GMAN
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      4th Nov 2011
In article <4eb3aecd$0$29364$(E-Mail Removed)>, Krypsis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On 4/11/2011 5:04 AM, GMAN wrote:
>> In article<4eb25301$0$19225$(E-Mail Removed)>,

> Krypsis<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> On 3/11/2011 2:43 PM, GMAN wrote:
>>>> In article<4eb19786$0$13391$(E-Mail Removed)>,
>>> Krypsis<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>> On 3/11/2011 1:04 AM, Percival P. Cassidy wrote:
>>>>>> A few weeks ago 2TB Seagate Barracuda XT bare drives were $130 at
>>>>>> NewEgg; by the end of last week they were $250. But on Saturday I bought
>>>>>> the retail version of the same drive at the Chicago-area Fry's for $160
>>>>>> (limit one per customer).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Two weeks ago I bought a retail-package 2TB Barracuda LP at Best Buy for
>>>>>> $100; this week the regular price is shown as $90, and they are on sale
>>>>>> for $75 -- and they do price adjustments within 30 days. NewEgg no
>>>>>> longer lists them.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Those drives are all made in China, but I think that some components or
>>>>>> sub-assemblies come from the flood-affected factories in Thailand.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Perce
>>>>>
>>>>> After having 3 out of 5 Seagate 1 Terabyte drives die recently, and
>>>>> being assured that the remaining 2 will soon suffer a similar fate, I no
>>>>> longer buy Seagate drives.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> You did get the memo about the firmware update to prevent this??????? The
>>>> firmware was released way over a year ago to fix the issues for the 750Gb
>>> thru
>>>> the 1.5 TB drives.
>>>
>>> No memo but I found out the bad news from the dealer from whom I
>>> purchased the drives. After losing the first drive, I contacted Seagate
>>> and updated the firmware. I was warned by the dealer rep that the fix
>>> wasn't a guarantee as his experience was that the entire 7200.11 batch
>>> was faulty and the update merely stopgap. He was right, shortly after
>>> the update I lost two more. The remaining 2 drives are no longer in a
>>> raid 5 configuration and are, for want of a better term, spares. They
>>> will not be used for critical duties.
>>>
>>> Seagate is well and truly off my radar now!
>>>

>> The 7200.11 are not enterprise drives and for the life of me i dont
>> understand why it suprises you that they fail in a RAID environment.
>>

>My "RAID5 array" was only ever turned on when required to store or
>access data and this would amount to no more than a few hours a week.
>Hardly an "enterprise" system. Had I wanted a 100% duty cycle storage
>system, then I would have purchased the appropriate drives for it, most
>probably 10 or 15k SCSI. My needs simply didn't warrant such expense.



That was not my point. My point was that desktop drives can take sometimes as
long as 2 minutes to retry and correct week or bad sectors. Usually this
amount of time is enough for most hardware or software raid systems to throw
up a fit and mark the drive bad and insist that it be removed from the array.
 
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GMAN
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      4th Nov 2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, shawn <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On Wed, 02 Nov 2011 10:04:46 -0400, "Percival P. Cassidy"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>A few weeks ago 2TB Seagate Barracuda XT bare drives were $130 at
>>NewEgg; by the end of last week they were $250. But on Saturday I bought
>>the retail version of the same drive at the Chicago-area Fry's for $160
>>(limit one per customer).
>>
>>Two weeks ago I bought a retail-package 2TB Barracuda LP at Best Buy for
>>$100; this week the regular price is shown as $90, and they are on sale
>>for $75 -- and they do price adjustments within 30 days. NewEgg no
>>longer lists them.
>>
>>Those drives are all made in China, but I think that some components or
>>sub-assemblies come from the flood-affected factories in Thailand.
>>

>
>That won't last for long. On Newegg.com the 1TB Western Digital Caviar
>Green has gone from about $50 a month ago to $129. It's also gone from
>free shipping to $7.29 for shipping. The same sort of price increase
>is happening with the rest of the 1TB and larger drives from all
>manufacturers. Even the prices for 500GB drives are getting out of
>hand with the cheapest on Newegg being the Samsung Spinpoing F3EG
>500GB 5400RPM at $99.99 and $7.28 for shipping.



I just resorted to going down to my local target and buying up quick a couple
of the 2TB WD Elements drives that they still had on the shelf for $79 . I had
went into Best Buy to buy a 2TB drive and they stated were all out in all of
the western region of the USA. So i walked next door to TARGET, they had 4
2TB WD Elements drives. I bought all 4 at $79 each. I am keeping two of them
as external drives for storing audio and video for my NAS, and then i cracked
the two others open and took the 2TB WD green drives out and are using them
internally.
 
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Ed Light
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      5th Nov 2011
On 11/4/2011 11:21 AM, GMAN wrote:

> 2TB WD Elements drives. I bought all 4 at $79 each. I am keeping two of them
> as external drives for storing audio and video for my NAS, and then i cracked
> the two others open and took the 2TB WD green drives out and are using them
> internally.


Some of those drives in there will break on regular SATA power as they
use lower power. Specifically at least some "EAVS" drives.

I could not get WD to tell me what voltage is supposed to go to what
pin. I suppose it could be measured off the feed in the enclosure.

--
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Ed Light
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      5th Nov 2011
On 11/4/2011 11:03 AM, Arno wrote:

> My take is that if you have a dumb hardware controller (most are
> pretty dumb) or it is hard to get to the individual drives,
> these "RAID" drives may be worth the extra money, otherwise they
> probably are not.


The WD RE drives have extra anti-vibration, anti-shock measures in them.
Some kind of active sensing and compensation. The 500 GB one, according
to newegg user reviews, has an unusally good record for almost no
lemons. Maybe because of less platters than the bigger ones.

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GMAN
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      5th Nov 2011
In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, Arno <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>GMAN <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> In article <4eb3aecd$0$29364$(E-Mail Removed)>, Krypsis

> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>On 4/11/2011 5:04 AM, GMAN wrote:

>[...]
>> That was not my point. My point was that desktop drives can take sometimes as

>
>> long as 2 minutes to retry and correct week or bad sectors. Usually this
>> amount of time is enough for most hardware or software raid systems to throw
>> up a fit and mark the drive bad and insist that it be removed from the array.

>
>
>I have been running several RAID1 and RAID 5/6 arrays on consumer-grade
>disks 24/7 for about 10 years now. The only issues I ever had
>are that about 1-2 times a year the last 3-4 years (running
>in IDE and SATA 2.5" notebook disks), a disk drops out of the
>array(s) and becomes completely unresponsive. That happens with
>Seagate, Samsung and WD drives and I have not been able to identify
>a pattern. It is not a kernel issue (this is Linux software
>RAID), as the drive stays unresponsive until power-cycled.
>Then it comes back cleanly, no errors, no SMART error log
>entries and hot-plugs fine.
>
>My take is that if you have a dumb hardware controller (most are
>pretty dumb) or it is hard to get to the individual drives,
>these "RAID" drives may be worth the extra money, otherwise they
>probably are not. Side note: Because of the disks dropping out,
>I run 3-way RAID1 or RAID6, so I have time to reactivate
>the locked-up drive at my leisure as the arrays are still
>redundant.
>
>Arno


Thats my exact point. Drives should not just drop out of a raid array for no
reason.
 
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GMAN
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      5th Nov 2011
In article <4eb49612$0$53791$c3e8da3$(E-Mail Removed)>, Ed Light <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>On 11/4/2011 11:21 AM, GMAN wrote:
>
>> 2TB WD Elements drives. I bought all 4 at $79 each. I am keeping two of them
>> as external drives for storing audio and video for my NAS, and then i cracked
>> the two others open and took the 2TB WD green drives out and are using them
>> internally.

>
>Some of those drives in there will break on regular SATA power as they
>use lower power. Specifically at least some "EAVS" drives.
>
>I could not get WD to tell me what voltage is supposed to go to what
>pin. I suppose it could be measured off the feed in the enclosure.



The drives in the WD 2TB Elements drives are the standard WD20EARX 3.5"
Green desktop drives.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16822136891


Right on the drive they say
5VDC 0.70A
12VDC 0.55A

Acually last christmas, they were in many of the elements cases, they were
supplying the WD black 7200RPM versions of the 2TB drive since they had a
shortage of the green drives in the later part of 2010..

I have read that about the EAVS drives and the 5v issue. That sounds a little
fishy to me because if they claim SATA II compliance, they must operate within
the specs layed out by the standards set.
 
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Ed Light
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      5th Nov 2011
On 11/4/2011 11:09 PM, GMAN wrote:

> I have read that about the EAVS drives and the 5v issue. That sounds a little
> fishy to me because if they claim SATA II compliance, they must operate within
> the specs layed out by the standards set.


Someone bought one or more bare EAVS drives at Frys and they broke. WD
fixed them to work normally.
--
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http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

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Ed Light
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      5th Nov 2011
On 11/4/2011 11:09 PM, GMAN wrote:


> I have read that about the EAVS drives and the 5v issue.


Any idea what the voltage inputs are?

--
Ed Light

Better World News TV Channel:
http://realnews.com

Iraq Veterans Against the War and Related:
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http://couragetoresist.org
http://antiwar.com

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Percival P. Cassidy
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      5th Nov 2011
On 11/02/11 03:18 pm, Krypsis wrote:

>> A few weeks ago 2TB Seagate Barracuda XT bare drives were $130 at
>> NewEgg; by the end of last week they were $250. But on Saturday I bought
>> the retail version of the same drive at the Chicago-area Fry's for $160
>> (limit one per customer).
>>
>> Two weeks ago I bought a retail-package 2TB Barracuda LP at Best Buy for
>> $100; this week the regular price is shown as $90, and they are on sale
>> for $75 -- and they do price adjustments within 30 days. NewEgg no
>> longer lists them.
>>
>> Those drives are all made in China, but I think that some components or
>> sub-assemblies come from the flood-affected factories in Thailand.


> After having 3 out of 5 Seagate 1 Terabyte drives die recently, and
> being assured that the remaining 2 will soon suffer a similar fate, I no
> longer buy Seagate drives.


Except for one Seagate drive that bricked after its 5-yr warranty had
expired and after having sat unused for many months, all the dead drives
I have sitting around here are WD.

I do have a couple of Seagate SATA drives that needed their firmware
updated, but they have been running 24/7 since with no problems.

BTW, I was wrong about one thing: although the "bare drive" Barracuda XT
drives were indeed made in China, the retail-pack one was made in
Thailand. I'm using them in a DIY FreeNAS box: the "bare" drives are in
RAIDZ1, and the retail one is a "hot spare."

And I did get my $25 credit from Best Buy for the Barracuda LP.

Perce
 
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