Hello all,

First of all, sorry for writing so much but I want to be as clear and correct as possible to avoid you guys having to ask more info each time because I'm not clear enough.

I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc currently has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running windows 7 x64 ultimateand I would like to restore an image file onto the SSD so that I do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all my programs and games.

However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit on theSSD. The largest folders on my C are:
- GAMES: about 100 GB
- Program files: 3 GB
- Program files (x86): 4 GB
- ProgramData: 7 GB
- Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150 GB)
- Windows: 22 GB
TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB so 292 GB total.
When I right-click C drive - properties, it says under used space: 370 GB. No idea why this is much more than the 292 GB that I added up and double checked.
Current disk image of my C drive is 315 GB.

So I would first like to clean up my C drive and move stuff to my second drive to be able to fit the image of my C drive onto the SSD which will become my new boot drive with windows.

I read on the net that I can move my library to a different drive (my documents, pictures, music and videos). This would free up 150 GB. Now it gets confusing for me. Will I be able to fit the image onto the SSD now? Total from above says 290 GB - 150 GB = 140 GB so I would say no it won't, correct?

Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move them to another drive and then after the SSD is installed I will not be able to install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe just a few games. So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't the performance drop with games installed on a second regular drive be huge compared to when the games are installed on the SSD? Or does this not influence performance when your games are on another drive since windows is on the SSD?

Thanks in advance for your help.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Hello all,

> First of all, sorry for writing so much but I want to be as clear and
> correct as possible to avoid you guys having to ask more info each time
> because I'm not clear enough.

> I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc currently
> has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running windows 7 x64
> ultimate and I would like to restore an image file onto the SSD so that I
> do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all my programs and games.

> However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit on
> the SSD. The largest folders on my C are:
> - GAMES: about 100 GB
> - Program files: 3 GB
> - Program files (x86): 4 GB
> - ProgramData: 7 GB
> - Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150 GB)
> - Windows: 22 GB
>
> TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB so 292 GB total. When I
> right-click C drive - properties, it says under used space: 370 GB. No
> idea why this is much more than the 292 GB that I added up and double
> checked.

Files take a multiple of the full disk blcok size away from the free
space, but take up only the bystes in them. Theare are filesystems
that can use parts of blocks, but even the Linux folks are not really
convinced this is worthwhile doing. (Unless you count Hans Reiser, but
he is in prison for murder...)

> Current disk image of my C drive is 315 GB.
>

>
> So I would first like to clean up my C drive and move stuff to my second
> drive to be able to fit the image of my C drive onto the SSD which will
> become my new boot drive with windows.
>

> I read on the net that I can move my library to a different drive (my
> documents, pictures, music and videos). This would free up 150 GB. Now
> it gets confusing for me. Will I be able to fit the image onto the SSD
> now? Total from above says 290 GB - 150 GB = 140 GB so I would say no it
> won't, correct?

Correct.

> Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move them to
> another drive

That depends. If the developers did this cleanly, it is possible.
For example, you can move a WOW-installation just by copying it
over. For other games it depends, but at least you can install
almost all games today on a different location than c:. I do
this routinely, as I do not have windows c: on any of my two
SSDs. Since I use Windows only for gaming and boot-times are
pretty irrelevant IMO, I think that is the best set-up for me.
(Most folks will disagree and quote improved boot-times and
application start times. I find them to be pretty irrelevant
except for frequently used applications and those I put on the
SSD.)

> and then after the SSD is installed I will not be able to
> install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe just a few games.

Another reason why I have all games on the SSD and noting of windows.

> So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't the performance drop
> with games installed on a second regular drive be huge compared to when
> the games are installed on the SSD?

It depends, but generally it does.

> Or does this not influence
> performance when your games are on another drive since windows is on the
> SSD?

Most components of Windows that are needed are in memory after a short
while anyways (if not, get morememory, it is cheap). So really the
only thing getting faster if you put c: on an SSD is booting (pretty
irrelevant) and start of applications installed on c: (I think you
do not even need to put office on c: today....).

> Thanks in advance for your help.

My advice would be to not put c: on the SSD, but all the games
and applications you care about. Definitely do not put any music
or videos on the SSD. You may consider putting the pagefile
on the SSD, but only if you have less than 8GB or so. In that
case, I highly recomment upgrading to 8GB or 16GB.

Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

On Friday, 7 September 2012 00:33:06 UTC+2, Arno wrote:
> delta007bhd wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
>
>
>
> > First of all, sorry for writing so much but I want to be as clear and
>
> > correct as possible to avoid you guys having to ask more info each time
>
> > because I'm not clear enough.
>
>
>
> > I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc currently
>
> > has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running windows 7 x64
>
> > ultimate and I would like to restore an image file onto the SSD so thatI
>
> > do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all my programs and games.
>
>
>
> > However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit on
>
> > the SSD. The largest folders on my C are:
>
> > - GAMES: about 100 GB
>
> > - Program files: 3 GB
>
> > - Program files (x86): 4 GB
>
> > - ProgramData: 7 GB
>
> > - Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150GB)
>
> > - Windows: 22 GB
>
> >
>
> > TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB so 292 GB total. When I
>
> > right-click C drive - properties, it says under used space: 370 GB. No
>
> > idea why this is much more than the 292 GB that I added up and double
>
> > checked.
>
>
>
> Files take a multiple of the full disk blcok size away from the free
>
> space, but take up only the bystes in them. Theare are filesystems
>
> that can use parts of blocks, but even the Linux folks are not really
>
> convinced this is worthwhile doing. (Unless you count Hans Reiser, but
>
> he is in prison for murder...)
>
>
>
> > Current disk image of my C drive is 315 GB.
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > So I would first like to clean up my C drive and move stuff to my second
>
> > drive to be able to fit the image of my C drive onto the SSD which will
>
> > become my new boot drive with windows.
>
> >
>
>
>
> > I read on the net that I can move my library to a different drive (my
>
> > documents, pictures, music and videos). This would free up 150 GB. Now
>
> > it gets confusing for me. Will I be able to fit the image onto the SSD
>
> > now? Total from above says 290 GB - 150 GB = 140 GB so I would say no it
>
> > won't, correct?
>
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>
> > Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move them to
>
> > another drive
>
>
>
> That depends. If the developers did this cleanly, it is possible.
>
> For example, you can move a WOW-installation just by copying it
>
> over. For other games it depends, but at least you can install
>
> almost all games today on a different location than c:. I do
>
> this routinely, as I do not have windows c: on any of my two
>
> SSDs. Since I use Windows only for gaming and boot-times are
>
> pretty irrelevant IMO, I think that is the best set-up for me.
>
> (Most folks will disagree and quote improved boot-times and
>
> application start times. I find them to be pretty irrelevant
>
> except for frequently used applications and those I put on the
>
> SSD.)
>
>
>
> > and then after the SSD is installed I will not be able to
>
> > install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe just a few games..
>
>
>
> Another reason why I have all games on the SSD and noting of windows.
>
>
>
> > So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't the performance drop
>
> > with games installed on a second regular drive be huge compared to when
>
> > the games are installed on the SSD?
>
>
>
> It depends, but generally it does.
>
>
>
> > Or does this not influence
>
> > performance when your games are on another drive since windows is on the
>
> > SSD?
>
>
>
> Most components of Windows that are needed are in memory after a short
>
> while anyways (if not, get morememory, it is cheap). So really the
>
> only thing getting faster if you put c: on an SSD is booting (pretty
>
> irrelevant) and start of applications installed on c: (I think you
>
> do not even need to put office on c: today....).
>
>
>
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>
>
> My advice would be to not put c: on the SSD, but all the games
>
> and applications you care about. Definitely do not put any music
>
> or videos on the SSD. You may consider putting the pagefile
>
> on the SSD, but only if you have less than 8GB or so. In that
>
> case, I highly recomment upgrading to 8GB or 16GB.
>
>
>
> Arno
>
> --
>
> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: a...@wagner.name
>
> GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
>
> ----
>
> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

Thank you Arno for your advise.

I have 16 GB of RAM. So you would recommend to leave only windows and some programs on my regular C drive and then reinstalling all games and the mostimportant programs onto the second D drive (SSD)? Will I benefit from the SSD's speed when running the programs from it, even though it's not my primary boot drive that contains windows?

What if for example I would install 2 SSD's, one for C windows and all it'sprograms and the other as D drive for games only? Would that give better performance compared to the above or is that not really worth the investment?



If I leave my windows as it is on a regular hard drive and then reinstall the games as you said onto the SSD as a D drive, would that give me the sameperformance as when I would buy a second SSD, one for windows C and the other for the games?

On Friday, 7 September 2012 00:33:06 UTC+2, Arno wrote:
> delta007bhd wrote:
>
> > Hello all,
>
>
>
> > First of all, sorry for writing so much but I want to be as clear and
>
> > correct as possible to avoid you guys having to ask more info each time
>
> > because I'm not clear enough.
>
>
>
> > I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc currently
>
> > has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running windows 7 x64
>
> > ultimate and I would like to restore an image file onto the SSD so thatI
>
> > do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all my programs and games.
>
>
>
> > However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit on
>
> > the SSD. The largest folders on my C are:
>
> > - GAMES: about 100 GB
>
> > - Program files: 3 GB
>
> > - Program files (x86): 4 GB
>
> > - ProgramData: 7 GB
>
> > - Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150GB)
>
> > - Windows: 22 GB
>
> >
>
> > TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB so 292 GB total. When I
>
> > right-click C drive - properties, it says under used space: 370 GB. No
>
> > idea why this is much more than the 292 GB that I added up and double
>
> > checked.
>
>
>
> Files take a multiple of the full disk blcok size away from the free
>
> space, but take up only the bystes in them. Theare are filesystems
>
> that can use parts of blocks, but even the Linux folks are not really
>
> convinced this is worthwhile doing. (Unless you count Hans Reiser, but
>
> he is in prison for murder...)
>
>
>
> > Current disk image of my C drive is 315 GB.
>
> >
>
>
>
> >
>
> > So I would first like to clean up my C drive and move stuff to my second
>
> > drive to be able to fit the image of my C drive onto the SSD which will
>
> > become my new boot drive with windows.
>
> >
>
>
>
> > I read on the net that I can move my library to a different drive (my
>
> > documents, pictures, music and videos). This would free up 150 GB. Now
>
> > it gets confusing for me. Will I be able to fit the image onto the SSD
>
> > now? Total from above says 290 GB - 150 GB = 140 GB so I would say no it
>
> > won't, correct?
>
>
>
> Correct.
>
>
>
> > Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move them to
>
> > another drive
>
>
>
> That depends. If the developers did this cleanly, it is possible.
>
> For example, you can move a WOW-installation just by copying it
>
> over. For other games it depends, but at least you can install
>
> almost all games today on a different location than c:. I do
>
> this routinely, as I do not have windows c: on any of my two
>
> SSDs. Since I use Windows only for gaming and boot-times are
>
> pretty irrelevant IMO, I think that is the best set-up for me.
>
> (Most folks will disagree and quote improved boot-times and
>
> application start times. I find them to be pretty irrelevant
>
> except for frequently used applications and those I put on the
>
> SSD.)
>
>
>
> > and then after the SSD is installed I will not be able to
>
> > install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe just a few games..
>
>
>
> Another reason why I have all games on the SSD and noting of windows.
>
>
>
> > So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't the performance drop
>
> > with games installed on a second regular drive be huge compared to when
>
> > the games are installed on the SSD?
>
>
>
> It depends, but generally it does.
>
>
>
> > Or does this not influence
>
> > performance when your games are on another drive since windows is on the
>
> > SSD?
>
>
>
> Most components of Windows that are needed are in memory after a short
>
> while anyways (if not, get morememory, it is cheap). So really the
>
> only thing getting faster if you put c: on an SSD is booting (pretty
>
> irrelevant) and start of applications installed on c: (I think you
>
> do not even need to put office on c: today....).
>
>
>
> > Thanks in advance for your help.
>
>
>
> My advice would be to not put c: on the SSD, but all the games
>
> and applications you care about. Definitely do not put any music
>
> or videos on the SSD. You may consider putting the pagefile
>
> on the SSD, but only if you have less than 8GB or so. In that
>
> case, I highly recomment upgrading to 8GB or 16GB.
>
>
>
> Arno
>
> --
>
> Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
>
> GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
>
> ----
>
> Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

Thank you Arno for your advise.

I have 16 GB of RAM. So you would recommend to leave only windows and some programs on my regular C drive and then reinstalling all games and the mostimportant programs onto the second D drive (SSD)? Will I benefit from the SSD's speed when running the programs from it, even though it's not my primary boot drive that contains windows?

What if for example I would install 2 SSD's, one for C windows and all it'sprograms and the other as D drive for games only? Would that give better performance compared to the above or is that not really worth the investment?

On 06/09/2012 2:09 PM, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc
> currently has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running
> windows 7 x64 ultimate and I would like to restore an image file onto
> the SSD so that I do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all
> my programs and games.

First, is it too late to return the 120GB SSD and replace it with a
240GB SSD?

> However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit
> on the SSD. The largest folders on my C are: - GAMES: about 100 GB -
> Program files: 3 GB - Program files (x86): 4 GB - ProgramData: 7 GB -
> Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150
> GB) - Windows: 22 GB TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB
> so 292 GB total. When I right-click C drive - properties, it says
> under used space: 370 GB. No idea why this is much more than the 292
> GB that I added up and double checked. Current disk image of my C
> drive is 315 GB.

I'd say definitely move that stuff out of your Users folders into
another drive, and just have them symbolically linked back to the
original Users location.

> Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move
> them to another drive and then after the SSD is installed I will not
> be able to install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe
> just a few games. So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't
> the performance drop with games installed on a second regular drive
> be huge compared to when the games are installed on the SSD? Or does
> this not influence performance when your games are on another drive
> since windows is on the SSD?

A lot of the slowness of stuff running in Windows is Windows itself.
Windows contains a lot of dynamically linked libraries which all
programs make use of. Just having those Windows components in the SSD
will automatically make other programs faster, even if they still reside
on slow, older HDD storage.

You don't own a Tardis, you can't just fit more stuff inside than there
is space on it for. So you're going to have to sacrifice something, and
sacrificing the games and leaving them on hard drives is what you're
going to have to do to fit things into such a small SSD.

Yousuf Khan

On 9/6/2012 1:09 PM, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> First of all, sorry for writing so much but I want to be as clear and correct as possible to avoid you guys having to ask more info each time because I'm not clear enough.
>
> I bought a 120 GB SSD drive which is not installed yet and my pc currently has 2 regular hard drives of 1 TB each. I am running windows 7 x64 ultimate and I would like to restore an image file onto the SSD so that I do not need to do a clean install and reinstall all my programs and games.
>
> However you can already guess my current C drive contents do not fit on the SSD. The largest folders on my C are:
> - GAMES: about 100 GB
> - Program files: 3 GB
> - Program files (x86): 4 GB
> - ProgramData: 7 GB
> - Users: 175 GB (of which My documents, pictures, music, videos are 150 GB)
> - Windows: 22 GB
> TOTAL: 290 GB plus some smaller folders of 2 GB so 292 GB total.
> When I right-click C drive - properties, it says under used space: 370 GB. No idea why this is much more than the 292 GB that I added up and double checked.
> Current disk image of my C drive is 315 GB.
>
> So I would first like to clean up my C drive and move stuff to my second drive to be able to fit the image of my C drive onto the SSD which will become my new boot drive with windows.
>
> I read on the net that I can move my library to a different drive (my documents, pictures, music and videos). This would free up 150 GB. Now it gets confusing for me. Will I be able to fit the image onto the SSD now? Total from above says 290 GB - 150 GB = 140 GB so I would say no it won't, correct?
>
> Next I could choose to uninstall some games since you cannot move them to another drive and then after the SSD is installed I will not be able to install games on the SSD due to lack of space or maybe just a few games. So then what's the point in having an SSD? Wouldn't the performance drop with games installed on a second regular drive be huge compared to when the games are installed on the SSD? Or does this not influence performance when your games are on another drive since windows is on the SSD?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.

Be sure to kill your pagination and hibernation
files. That will get you 30 GB back on your SSD:
http://ask-leo.com/what_are_hiberfil...move_them.html
http://pocketpccentral.net/blog/2012...rfil-pagefile/

Lynn

> First, is it too late to return the 120GB SSD and replace it with a
> 240GB SSD?

No, I went to the store to ask this but he advises to keep only my windows installation on the SSD and my program files and then install my games ontoa regular D drive. The exe files of the games are run from the main C drive anyway under a win32 folder or so he said. So by installing games on a separate and regular sata drive, I will have no performance drop. I asked himwhat about the exe files that reside in the game installation directory inthat second drive. He says they are ghost files but the real exe's are runfrom the C drive which is the SSD.

> I'd say definitely move that stuff out of your Users folders into
> another drive, and just have them symbolically linked back to the
> original Users location.

OK, that's done. Moved documents, pictures, music and videos to another drive. But I do not understand what you mean with "symbolically linked". The way I did it is:
- Created 4 folders on my D drive: documents, music, pictures, videos
- Copied contents of my C drive's documents, music, pictures and videos to the new folders on D. When copied ok, deleted the contents of the folders on C.
- In explorer window in the left pane under "Libraries" right-clicked "Documents", then properties and under "library locations" deleted the default location on C and added the one on D. Same for the other 3 libraries. Now mylibraries point to D when clicking on documents or the others.

Another thing I thought of is, when I install a game/program that puts a folder with user settings in your "my documents" folder, I noticed this goes to the default "C:\users\name\My Documents" folder. Is this ok? Or how do Itell windows that my documents folder is now on D? Is that what you mean with symbolically link them?

> A lot of the slowness of stuff running in Windows is Windows itself.
> Windows contains a lot of dynamically linked libraries which all
> programs make use of. Just having those Windows components in the SSD
> will automatically make other programs faster, even if they still reside
> on slow, older HDD storage.

OK, that matches with what the vendor at the computer store meant with install windows on SSD and games and large files on separate hard drive.

Thanks,

Alex

> Be sure to kill your pagination and hibernation
>
> files. That will get you 30 GB back on your SSD:
>
> http://ask-leo.com/what_are_hiberfil...move_them.html
>
> http://pocketpccentral.net/blog/2012...rfil-pagefile/
>
>Lynn

Thanks, I read about the hiberfil.sys but I didn't know about the pagefile.sys Switching these off doesn't have a detrimental effect on the pc? I got a warning message when turning off virtual memory.

Saved me another 27,8 GB by turning both off.

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Friday, 7 September 2012 00:33:06 UTC+2, Arno wrote:
>> delta007bhd wrote:
[...]

> Thank you Arno for your advise.

> I have 16 GB of RAM. So you would recommend to leave only windows and some
> programs on my regular C drive and then reinstalling all games and the
> most important programs onto the second D drive (SSD)? Will I benefit
> from the SSD's speed when running the programs from it, even though it's
> not my primary boot drive that contains windows?

Yes. This obsession with c: is a windows thing. No sane system
does it (well, no sane system has drive letters today...). It
is untrue even on windows. Basically all data on application
start comes from the drive the application is on, except for
some libraries, but they are in RAM after first usage.

> What if for example I would install 2 SSD's, one for C windows and all
> it's programs and the other as D drive for games only? Would that give
> better performance compared to the above or is that not really worth the
> investment?

I cannot really tell you. My guess is that the only thing you
really gain is faster boot and maybe a bit of speed increase
when some applications are started for the first time. That would
mean it is a waste of money.

> If I leave my windows as it is on a regular hard drive and then reinstall
> the games as you said onto the SSD as a D drive, would that give me the
> same performance as when I would buy a second SSD, one for windows C and
> the other for the games?

My guess is that may give you very slightly better performance.
My advice would be to try it out with Windows on conventional HDD
and Apps/Games on SSD.

Arno
--
Arno Wagner, Dr. sc. techn., Dipl. Inform., CISSP -- Email: (E-Mail Removed)
GnuPG: ID: 1E25338F FP: 0C30 5782 9D93 F785 E79C 0296 797F 6B50 1E25 338F
----
Cuddly UI's are the manifestation of wishful thinking. -- Dylan Evans

On 9/7/2012 12:58 PM, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> Be sure to kill your pagination and hibernation
>>
>> files. That will get you 30 GB back on your SSD:
>>
>> http://ask-leo.com/what_are_hiberfil...move_them.html
>>
>> http://pocketpccentral.net/blog/2012...rfil-pagefile/
>>
>> Lynn
>
> Thanks, I read about the hiberfil.sys but I didn't know about the pagefile.sys Switching these off doesn't have a detrimental effect on the pc? I got a warning message when turning off virtual memory.
>
> Saved me another 27,8 GB by turning both off.

You do not need paging with 16 GB of ram.

You cannot hibernate anymore with hibernation
turned off. Big whoop.

Lynn