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Single-rail vs. multi-rail power supplies?

 
 
Yousuf Khan
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      25th Mar 2012
On 24/03/2012 12:05 AM, Charlie wrote:
> I did not raise the voltage back to where it was. Just enough to stop
> the errors. I'm not saying that your errors are caused by the same thing
> as mine. Just giving you something else to try.


Well, I'll keep it in mind then. When all else fails, that's worth a
shot. But of course my first solution is a new PS.

Yousuf Khan
 
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shawn
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      25th Mar 2012
On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:30:38 -0400, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:





>I don't own a copy of IEC60950, so I can't copy/paste
>the appropriate part. And the last time I looked, I couldn't
>find a copy "floating" on the web. The keyword "SELV" comes
>to mind, but that's about all I remember now.
>

http://www.freetechebooks.com/file-2...60950-pdf.html
 
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larry moe 'n curly
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      25th Mar 2012


Yousuf Khan wrote:
>
> On 24/03/2012 3:37 AM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>
> > Bit-Tech.net says the 1GB Radeon 6870 uses from 128W - 247W. Power
> > estimators aren't very good and usually give numbers that are way too
> > high, and when XbitLabs.com took actual measurements, they got this
> > (associated article goes into much more detail):
> >
> > http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/coole...attage/p40.png

>
> I don't think the video is at issue at all, it's plugged into its own
> private rail, and I've never had any problems with it. It's the storage
> units that are having the problems.


Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.
 
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David
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      25th Mar 2012
On Sun, 25 Mar 2012 03:48:18 -0400, shawn wrote:

> On Wed, 21 Mar 2012 18:30:38 -0400, Paul <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>>I don't own a copy of IEC60950, so I can't copy/paste the appropriate
>>part. And the last time I looked, I couldn't find a copy "floating" on
>>the web. The keyword "SELV" comes to mind, but that's about all I
>>remember now.
>>

> http://www.freetechebooks.com/file-2...60950-pdf.html


Nice try, but it's only the first few pages.
IEC doesn't let this one out without paying for it.

Here's some pages that give you the gist of what's in the spec:

http://www.i-spec.com/IEC_60950/iec_60950.html

but to get the detailed requirements, you have to buy the spec.

SELV refers to circuits that are separated physically and electrically
from the other circuits, and do not carry a voltage more than 60V DC, or
42.5V peak AC.


 
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Yousuf Khan
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      25th Mar 2012
On 25/03/2012 8:02 AM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
> Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
> least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
> separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
> many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
> connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
> card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
> because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
> some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.


I don't know, according to this:

http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Pr...ad.asp?idx=196

"Four Independent +12VDC Outputs
Four +12VDC rails supply power independently to the CPU, VGA,
motherboard, and peripheral components for the highest level of
stability and performance. "

But that could just be marketing speak.

Yousuf Khan
 
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Yousuf Khan
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      25th Mar 2012
On 25/03/2012 1:46 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 25/03/2012 8:02 AM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>> Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
>> least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
>> separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
>> many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
>> connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
>> card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
>> because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
>> some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.

>
> I don't know, according to this:
>
> http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Pr...ad.asp?idx=196
>
> "Four Independent +12VDC Outputs
> Four +12VDC rails supply power independently to the CPU, VGA,
> motherboard, and peripheral components for the highest level of
> stability and performance. "
>
> But that could just be marketing speak.
>
> Yousuf Khan


The following review article seems to doubt that the four rails are
actually independent.

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article688-page1.html

Yousuf Khan
 
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Paul
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      25th Mar 2012
Yousuf Khan wrote:
> On 25/03/2012 1:46 PM, Yousuf Khan wrote:
>> On 25/03/2012 8:02 AM, larry moe 'n curly wrote:
>>> Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
>>> least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
>>> separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
>>> many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
>>> connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
>>> card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
>>> because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
>>> some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.

>>
>> I don't know, according to this:
>>
>> http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Pr...ad.asp?idx=196
>>
>> "Four Independent +12VDC Outputs
>> Four +12VDC rails supply power independently to the CPU, VGA,
>> motherboard, and peripheral components for the highest level of
>> stability and performance. "
>>
>> But that could just be marketing speak.
>>
>> Yousuf Khan

>
> The following review article seems to doubt that the four rails are
> actually independent.
>
> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article688-page1.html
>
> Yousuf Khan


http://www.jonnyguru.com/modules.php...Story2&reid=30

http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...y-Review/402/6

It could be a single transformer with four output windings for +12V.
And four diode pairs (one pair per three legged package) for rectification
on the outputs. There are no closeup shots of the solder blobs on the wire
loom area, to see whether the 12V outputs are joined after the rectifiers
or anything.

The second reviewer, seems to be using a load tester with only two 12V loads
to use for the four outputs. The first reviewer is using a strange
loading pattern, which helps make 12V2 and 12V4 look like they're connected
together (identical voltages).

Paul
 
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Rod Speed
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      25th Mar 2012
larry moe 'n curly wrote
> Yousuf Khan wrote
>> larry moe 'n curly wrote


>>> Bit-Tech.net says the 1GB Radeon 6870 uses from 128W - 247W.
>>> Power estimators aren't very good and usually give numbers that
>>> are way too high, and when XbitLabs.com took actual measurements,
>>> they got this (associated article goes into much more detail):


>>> http://www.xbitlabs.com/images/coole...attage/p40.png


>> I don't think the video is at issue at all, it's plugged into its own
>> private rail, and I've never had any problems with it. It's the
>> storage units that are having the problems.


> Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
> least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
> separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
> many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
> connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
> card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
> because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
> some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.


They dont, but dont need that either. The most that a rail sagging
a little does is see the drive take a little longer to get up to speed.


 
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Rod Speed
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      25th Mar 2012
Yousuf Khan wrote
> Yousuf Khan wrote
>> larry moe 'n curly wrote


>>> Does the Zalman really have 4 separate rails, which would require at
>>> least 4 separate windings for the +12V rails, or does it just have 4
>>> separate current sense lines? Because JonnyGuru.com has found that
>>> many PSUs advertised as being multirail have all the +12V lines
>>> connected to the same place on the circuit board. Also the video
>>> card probably won't be as sensitive to fluctuations from the +12V
>>> because it has its own voltage regulator. Disk drives do, too, for
>>> some voltages, but I don't know about the +12V for the motors.


>> I don't know, according to this:


>> http://www.zalman.com/eng/product/Pr...ad.asp?idx=196


>> "Four Independent +12VDC Outputs
>> Four +12VDC rails supply power independently to the CPU, VGA,
>> motherboard, and peripheral components for the highest level of
>> stability and performance. "


>> But that could just be marketing speak.


> The following review article seems to doubt that the four rails are
> actually independent.


> http://www.silentpcreview.com/article688-page1.html


You can check if they are just by opening the case and see
if all the 12V wires are all soldered together. I doubt they are
tho with a brand name like Zalman.


 
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