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Shiny new Vista install, nothing but problems

 
 
Mike Hotek
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      10th Dec 2007
It looks like I don't have any choice as to whether Windows Defender exists
on my machine or not and it is causing MAJOR issues. I have programs that I
have set to run as a service. They were installed under administrator
authority. They are using a service account with administrator authority.
Yet, they get blocked and prevented from running everytime I reboot. I have
to manually start every single one of them and when I manually start every
single one of them, I have to tell this stupid UAC that I really want to
start something that I already configured with admin credentials and set to
run automatically. I can't set the classification to permitted and I can't
find any way of getting these things to just start on their own when I
reboot. I also can't grant them more authority than they already have. I'm
apparently not allowed to add anything to the list of Allowed items, because
there is no way to add anything. The only option I've found that works is to
turn off Windows Defender and also turn off the UAC. That is obviously an
incredibly bad answer to force me to disable security to get stuff to run
which I deliberatly installed and configured on my machine.
 
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Mike Hotek
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      10th Dec 2007
Before you ask, YES, I have gone into Options and added them to the list to
NOT scan. I've added the files as well as the entire directory the files are
contained within. I've changed the owner of the directory and every single
object in it to the service account that I am using. I can't think of any
other way possible that I can give this more permissions than it already has.

"Mike Hotek" wrote:

> It looks like I don't have any choice as to whether Windows Defender exists
> on my machine or not and it is causing MAJOR issues. I have programs that I
> have set to run as a service. They were installed under administrator
> authority. They are using a service account with administrator authority.
> Yet, they get blocked and prevented from running everytime I reboot. I have
> to manually start every single one of them and when I manually start every
> single one of them, I have to tell this stupid UAC that I really want to
> start something that I already configured with admin credentials and set to
> run automatically. I can't set the classification to permitted and I can't
> find any way of getting these things to just start on their own when I
> reboot. I also can't grant them more authority than they already have. I'm
> apparently not allowed to add anything to the list of Allowed items, because
> there is no way to add anything. The only option I've found that works is to
> turn off Windows Defender and also turn off the UAC. That is obviously an
> incredibly bad answer to force me to disable security to get stuff to run
> which I deliberatly installed and configured on my machine.

 
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Bill Sanderson
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      10th Dec 2007
Your problems are not with Windows Defender but with UAC. It is easily
possible to turn UAC off, but I don't have the steps handy here--I've never
done it on any of of the 9
Vista systems I admin regularly. It's in the help.

"Mike Hotek" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Before you ask, YES, I have gone into Options and added them to the list
> to
> NOT scan. I've added the files as well as the entire directory the files
> are
> contained within. I've changed the owner of the directory and every
> single
> object in it to the service account that I am using. I can't think of any
> other way possible that I can give this more permissions than it already
> has.
>
> "Mike Hotek" wrote:
>
>> It looks like I don't have any choice as to whether Windows Defender
>> exists
>> on my machine or not and it is causing MAJOR issues. I have programs
>> that I
>> have set to run as a service. They were installed under administrator
>> authority. They are using a service account with administrator
>> authority.
>> Yet, they get blocked and prevented from running everytime I reboot. I
>> have
>> to manually start every single one of them and when I manually start
>> every
>> single one of them, I have to tell this stupid UAC that I really want to
>> start something that I already configured with admin credentials and set
>> to
>> run automatically. I can't set the classification to permitted and I
>> can't
>> find any way of getting these things to just start on their own when I
>> reboot. I also can't grant them more authority than they already have.
>> I'm
>> apparently not allowed to add anything to the list of Allowed items,
>> because
>> there is no way to add anything. The only option I've found that works
>> is to
>> turn off Windows Defender and also turn off the UAC. That is obviously
>> an
>> incredibly bad answer to force me to disable security to get stuff to run
>> which I deliberatly installed and configured on my machine.


 
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spm
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      10th Dec 2007
None of what you report has anything to do with Windows Defender. The
problem you are facing is that the programs you are 'attempting to run
as a Windows service' are probably not compatible with Vista. The
security model in Vista has changed, and this affects the ability of
programs to run with admin credentials, unless they are built to
cooperate properly with UAC. Turning UAC is off is an option, but not a
sensible one. Better you get back to the authors of the programs
installed to obtain Vista-compatible updates.

It is no matter that you, as an administrator, configured these
programs - they still have to behave properly. Also, running as an
administrator does not mean the same as it did in Win 2000 and XP. You,
and the programs you run, do not get administrator privileges by
default - when you (or a program you run) take an action which requires
administrator privileges, you have to confirm your assent to them, each
time. If the programs you run as services are properly built and
installed (as services) for Vista, they won't be blocked each time, and
you won't need to answer any UAC prompts.

--
Regards,
Steve.
 
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Mike Hotek
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      10th Dec 2007
I know how to turn it off. And as soon as it is turned off the security
center does nothing but scream that you are completely exposed. That has the
effect of causing me to ignore it such that when an actual issue that I need
to take care of is ignored and doesn't get fixed. So, I guess the other
question is there a way to shut down the UAC permanently without having
Windows screaming that the sky is falling?

I would really like to upgrade to Vista, but this idiotic UAC thing is
probably going to have me rip it out and "upgrade" back to XP Pro, unless I
can shut down the UAC which interferes with just about everything that I do
while not having the security center screaming that my system is wide open.
 
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Robinb
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      10th Dec 2007
you can turn off UAC with a program called TweakUAC
http://www.tweak-uac.com/what-is-tweak-uac/

I use it because I have a program that WD and vista screams when it comes up
on startup and won't allow it but i know it is not spyware because I wrote
it with a friend of mine and it has no spyware nor viruses/trojans in it and
it is so annoying when WD and vista screams when it startsup.

So someone recommended this tweakuc program and to check off "Use in silent
mode"
This option does not turn off UAC; instead, it only makes UAC to operate in
the quiet mode. In the quiet mode, UAC does not display the elevation
prompts for the administrators. That is, when you attempt to do an
administrative task, you will be allowed to proceed automatically, without
prompting you to confirm the operation. All other features of UAC would
still be enabled: the programs will run with the standard user permissions
by default, and the standard users will still see the elevation prompts (the
quiet mode applies to the administrator accounts only).

and

Vista will start displaying a warning message in its taskbar. You can turn
that message off, though: double-click on the shield icon in the taskbar to
open Windows Security Center. Then click on the "Change the way Security
Center alerts me" link, in the left panel. Finally, choose one of the "Don't
notify me" options.

robin
"spm" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> None of what you report has anything to do with Windows Defender. The
> problem you are facing is that the programs you are 'attempting to run
> as a Windows service' are probably not compatible with Vista. The
> security model in Vista has changed, and this affects the ability of
> programs to run with admin credentials, unless they are built to
> cooperate properly with UAC. Turning UAC is off is an option, but not a
> sensible one. Better you get back to the authors of the programs
> installed to obtain Vista-compatible updates.
>
> It is no matter that you, as an administrator, configured these
> programs - they still have to behave properly. Also, running as an
> administrator does not mean the same as it did in Win 2000 and XP. You,
> and the programs you run, do not get administrator privileges by
> default - when you (or a program you run) take an action which requires
> administrator privileges, you have to confirm your assent to them, each
> time. If the programs you run as services are properly built and
> installed (as services) for Vista, they won't be blocked each time, and
> you won't need to answer any UAC prompts.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Steve.



 
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Mr Cat
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      10th Dec 2007
Bill Sanderson, spm and Robinb are correct. Here are some articles that
hopefully may clarify the issue:
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Window....mspx?mfr=true
http://technet2.microsoft.com/Window....mspx?mfr=true
http://www.tweak-uac.com/what-is-uac/

"Mike Hotek" wrote:

> It looks like I don't have any choice as to whether Windows Defender exists
> on my machine or not and it is causing MAJOR issues. I have programs that I
> have set to run as a service. They were installed under administrator
> authority. They are using a service account with administrator authority.
> Yet, they get blocked and prevented from running everytime I reboot. I have
> to manually start every single one of them and when I manually start every
> single one of them, I have to tell this stupid UAC that I really want to
> start something that I already configured with admin credentials and set to
> run automatically. I can't set the classification to permitted and I can't
> find any way of getting these things to just start on their own when I
> reboot. I also can't grant them more authority than they already have. I'm
> apparently not allowed to add anything to the list of Allowed items, because
> there is no way to add anything. The only option I've found that works is to
> turn off Windows Defender and also turn off the UAC. That is obviously an
> incredibly bad answer to force me to disable security to get stuff to run
> which I deliberatly installed and configured on my machine.

 
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Bill Sanderson
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Posts: n/a
 
      11th Dec 2007
This is a relatively unusual experience. I've got 6 machines running Vista
that I admin, and I've had very little complaint from the users about UAC.
However, they are average office users, and I'm a network admin.

I see what you mean about the Security Center. You can stop it yelling at
you, but you can't make the red shield go away unless you turn it off
completely, and in either case you are masking what could be important
alerts.

Can you give (again) some examples of things that you do that it yells at
you about?


"Mike Hotek" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I know how to turn it off. And as soon as it is turned off the security
> center does nothing but scream that you are completely exposed. That has
> the
> effect of causing me to ignore it such that when an actual issue that I
> need
> to take care of is ignored and doesn't get fixed. So, I guess the other
> question is there a way to shut down the UAC permanently without having
> Windows screaming that the sky is falling?
>
> I would really like to upgrade to Vista, but this idiotic UAC thing is
> probably going to have me rip it out and "upgrade" back to XP Pro, unless
> I
> can shut down the UAC which interferes with just about everything that I
> do
> while not having the security center screaming that my system is wide
> open.


 
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Mike Hotek
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Posts: n/a
 
      11th Dec 2007
Thanks for the suggestions. I tried TweakUAC and it still didn't get what I
wanted. So, I simply took the route of getting rid of the problem. Namely,
shutting off this stupid, idiotic UAC hunk of junk that is interfering with
applications starting up as services. (Yes, they HAVE been written
specifically for Vista compatibility, but unless they are certified, UAC will
still block them.) So, yeah, I disabled one of the most interfering pieces
of an OS that I've ever come across. It's pretty stupid when the UAC that
Microsoft put into Vista winds up blocking Microsoft products from running as
services.
 
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Mr Cat
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      11th Dec 2007
I probably should have also referenced this Microsoft document:
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/d...displaylang=en
I understand why you want to turn UAC off. Good luck.



"Mike Hotek" wrote:

> Thanks for the suggestions. I tried TweakUAC and it still didn't get what I
> wanted. So, I simply took the route of getting rid of the problem. Namely,
> shutting off this stupid, idiotic UAC hunk of junk that is interfering with
> applications starting up as services. (Yes, they HAVE been written
> specifically for Vista compatibility, but unless they are certified, UAC will
> still block them.) So, yeah, I disabled one of the most interfering pieces
> of an OS that I've ever come across. It's pretty stupid when the UAC that
> Microsoft put into Vista winds up blocking Microsoft products from running as
> services.

 
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