Per Ant:
>
>It has to be Vizio due to special deals/discounts hence why I asked.

I've got a Vizio - chosen mainly bco price.

If your anticipated TV is going to do PIP, one thing to consider
is whether you need the TV to remember it's last state when you
turn it on. e.g. If I'm running split screen with my DVR in the
foreground and turn the TV off, when it turns on again I want it
tb running split screen with the DVR in the foreground.

Mine does not do that and I find it enough of a nuisance that I
would not buy another Vizio unless I found that problem fixed.

Also lacking in Vizio's PIP mode is equal access to inputs. One
PIP can get to various other devices besides the tuner but the
other cannot. Another deal-breaker for me. Heaven forbid
somebody should want to play their DVR in one PIP and a VHS in
the other.
--
Pete Cresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> ...
> Also lacking in Vizio's PIP mode is equal access to inputs. One
> PIP can get to various other devices besides the tuner but the
> other cannot. Another deal-breaker for me. Heaven forbid
> somebody should want to play their DVR in one PIP and a VHS in
> the other.
> --
> Pete Cresswell

My workaround is to check other channels on the old TV + converter
box.

jsw

Per Jim Wilkins:
>
>My workaround is to check other channels on the old TV + converter
>box.

I thought about a second, small TV as a substitute for PIP, but
PIP and being able to swap screens is soooooo convenient.

Other people I talk to don't even know what PIP is and, once I
explain it, they can't figure out why anybody would ever want it.

Probably an overlap there with people who tolerate commercials
better than I do.
--
Pete Cresswell

"(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Per Jim Wilkins:
>>
>>My workaround is to check other channels on the old TV + converter
>>box.
>
> I thought about a second, small TV as a substitute for PIP, but
> PIP and being able to swap screens is soooooo convenient.
>
> Other people I talk to don't even know what PIP is and, once I
> explain it, they can't figure out why anybody would ever want it.
>
> Probably an overlap there with people who tolerate commercials
> better than I do.
> --
> Pete Cresswell

Friends,

PIP is grossly overrated for average viewers, like my wife and me. From
1995, when we bought our super-duper (at that time) 35" big screen Sony with
PIP, we always had the cable box output A/V on one input set and the raw
cable (Ch 2 - Ch 75) on the other. PIP always worked easily and perfectly
but we rarely used it. I will guess we invoked it once every two years for
some obscure function. We could always record whatever we were waiting for,
so whatever it was, we didn't need it real-time.

About two years ago, we replaced that set with a new one, HD this time. It
has PIP and I have no idea how to get to it, despite having an engineering
degree. It's not ignorance on my part ... it's a matter of not caring, not
needing, not wanting, etc. Dig it?

In all sincerity, I believe anyone who hangs his hat on a gimmick like PIP
is wasting time, money, energy, etc. As always, your mileage may vary.

Bless you,
"Sal"

"(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> ...>
> Probably an overlap there with people who tolerate commercials
> better than I do.
> Pete Cresswell

Personal preference.

I have the laptop's large external monitor beside the Vizio TV and
browse or post during commercials and boring dialog. That's why my
posts are sometimes poorly worded.

It's a very handy arrangement for doing taxes etc because the Vizio is
big and sharp enough to show two full pages of the .pdf instructions.

I really like having separate monitors for the application and the
operating system, or the application's control panel. The operating
system monitor can be smaller but it should be the primary one so you
don't lose control of the computer if the larger one isn't configured
right when you boot. I can switch the Vizio from HDMI to TV while its
computer is on, but it isn't always recognized when I switch back so I
have to shut off the PC by holding the power button down.

jsw

Per Sal M. O'Nella:
>PIP is grossly overrated for average viewers,

Your assertion is supported by the sales people I've spoken with.

My question was: "Why are such essential functions as PIP and
dual tuners missing from all but the highest-end TVs?"

The answers boiled down to: "So few people want them that it's
not worthwhile."

Diff'rn't strokes, I guess. For me, PIP boils down to
commercial avoidance while watching the few shows that I actually
watch in real time. ABC Evening News in one pane, DVR'd PBS
News Hour in the other. Commercial comes on ABC, flip to PBS
and hit Resume. Commercial ends on ABC, Pause PBS and flip back
to ABC.

I consider commercials tb a significant form of mind pollution -
and, having limited grey matter to begin with, I try to avoid
that.

And don't even get me started on *political* commercials... I
think the country would be significantly better off if
entertainers like Jay Leno would start making fun of people who
actually view those things.

--
Pete Cresswell

On Wednesday, June 13th, 2012, at 09:16:13h -0400, Pete Cresswell wrote:

> And don't even get me started on *political* commercials...

They may have bad content, but I would suggest that particularly
in times of economic recession, they are vital to keeping some
commercial TV stations afloat.

Per J G Miller:
>> And don't even get me started on *political* commercials...
>
>They may have bad content, but I would suggest that particularly
>in times of economic recession, they are vital to keeping some
>commercial TV stations afloat.

Just last nite, I was wondering about the future of TV in
general.

Judging by the increased frequency/length of it's fund raising
efforts, Philadelphia's PBS seems tb on it's last legs.

Commercial TV, AFIK, is built on the advertising revenue model
and it seems like more and more people are DVR'ing and just fast
forwarding commercials. In fact, I recently read about a
conflict between TV interests and somebody, somewhere that was
providing DVRs with built-in commercial identification/skipping.

Seems like the end is in sight for the current business model.

Pay-per-view? Commercials with enough entertainment value that
they get watched? Back to the old cable subscription model where
the user's monthly fee makes up for no commercials?
--
Pete Cresswell

On Wednesday, June 13th, 2012, at 11:15:01h -0400,
Peter Cresswell observed:

> Judging by the increased frequency/length of it's fund raising
> efforts, Philadelphia's PBS seems tb on it's last legs.

WHYY-TV is actually licensed to Wilmington, DE, although its
major audience as you note is in fact Philadelphia, PA.

Perhaps people are reluctant to support WHYY because
of where the money is going?

QUOTE

In 2007 ... station CEO Bill Marrazzo was cited by the
watchdog group Charity Navigator as the highest paid CEO
in all of public broadcasting.

UNQUOTE

From <http://www.broadstreetreview.COM/main/article/bill_marrazzos_whyy_pay_package/>

QUOTE

They say he makes more than anyone in public broadcasting
while delivering much less.

UNQUOTE

Per J G Miller:
>
> They say he makes more than anyone in public broadcasting
> while delivering much less.

I don't know enough to compare.

But he delivers Charlie Rose and PBS News Hour - which make the
network news programs look like the moronic pap that they are.

And then he delivers American Experience, American Masters, Bill
Moyers' Journal, Frontline, Global Voices, Masterpiece Classic,
Nova, P.O.V, Tavis Smiley, Washingtron Week, and enough others
that I have the luxury of not even knowing who Kim Kardashian
*is*, much less what she did yesterday.... so I give money to PBS
gladly.

--
Pete Cresswell