On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:25:56 +0100, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>> Your BOOT sector is knackered, run FDISK /MBR
>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/69013
>> That does NOT apply to NTFS.
> A damaged boot sector is independent of operating system.

I have the machine running by putting a new disk in but it is very
interesting that the original 80GB disk works fine for everything but
booting to windows.

So, I would suspect a damaged master boot record based on all your
suggestions and my googling in that area, thanks to your pointers.

The wierd thing is there is no "/MBR" option to the fdisk on the knoppix
CD!

Do you know how to get knoppix fdisk to do the mbr option?
Thanks in advance for any help,
Vicki

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 00:54:55 -0500, Ben Myers wrote:
> FDISK /MBR does apply to NTFS file systems. Using a Windows 98 install floppy
> to repair an NTFS MBR is unconventional, but I have done so a number of times in
> a pinch. The conventional way is to boot from an XP install CD to rewrite the
> MBR, but it IS slower... Ben Myers

Being mad at the bad disk mbr, I tried to recreate those first few blocks
following instructions provided by you wonderful guys earlier.

In knoppix, I ran the following deletion and rebuilding of the type 7
(NTFS) partition, again to no avail. Everything works but booting to
Windows.

Here is what I did following your advice and that at
http://www.linux-noob.com/forums/ind...showtopic=2196

I booted to knoppix with the bad mbr hard drive in.

I deleted the partition and created a new NTFS partition:
# su root
# fdisk /dev/hda
Command (m for help): d1
Selected partition 1

Command (m for help): n
Command action
e extended
p primarry partioin (1-4)
Command (m for help)
Partition number (1-4): 1
First cylinder (1010337, default 1):1
Last cylinder or +size or +sizeM or +sizeK (1010337, default 10337): 10337

Command (m for help): w
The partition table has been altered!
Calling ioctl() to re-read partition table.
WARNING: Re-reading the partition table failed with error 16:
Device or resource busy.
The kernel still uses the old table.
The new table will be used at the next reboot.
Syncing disks.
#

But, after rebuilding the operating system with the IBM recovery disk set,
it still wouldn't boot. It just gave the dash at the top-left of the black
screen. This is frustrating since I KNOW the problem is the boot'ability of
the hard drive, yet I can't replace the MBR no matter what I do and I can't
get a good error.

I haven't tried ALL your suggestions yet, so I'm not yet out of ammo!
Thanks in advance for any help,
Vicki

On 26 Feb 2007 18:27:58 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> Cmos battery: no. Bad Ram: unlikely, but possible.
>> Does knoppix working help us pinpoint where to look to see why winxp
>> installed from the IBM Recovery disks won't boot the Thinkpad?
> You have identified many working components at least. The main knoppix
> menu (before you even load) has a command prompt. Type "memtest" there
> to test RAM.

Thanks to your diagnostic suggestions, I've proven the memory is good.

Knoppix memtest reported no problem with the memory.
Also I put the BIOS into diagnostic mode and it too after a long time,
reported no problems with the 1MB of memory which is all this Thinkpad can
take I think.

The wierd thing is that the disk works fine in all things except booting to
Windows. This gets me fighting mad and that's why I am trying to defeat
that nasty MBR. I will win but it won't be an easy catfight!
Thanks in advance for any help.
Vickie

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:49:39 GMT, JHEM wrote:
>> That does NOT apply to NTFS.

This was a great article on how to use Knoppix on IBM Thinkpads to fix
problems.

http://www-128.ibm.com/developerwork...y/l-knopx.html

Thanks in advance for any help,
Vicki

Go to the Lenovo website and do a search on "master boot record repair
kit" You'll need to download the diskette image and figure out how to
boot it. You can use a diskette drive (maybe USB attached) or build a
bootable CD from the diskette.

If winxp won't boot after restoring from the recovery disks there are
two possibilities I've seen.
1. You are restoring the wrong set of disks and don't have the proper
drivers for your system.
2. You have a mishmashed partition table that is confusing the win boot
process. This problem is almost impossible to locate because all
partitioning tools see nothing wrong with this and the partitions can be
accessed without problems. The only tool I've used that can fully show
the problem is the Partition Magic partition table print utility. This
program comes with the product but must be run independently of
Partition Magic. There's also a low level partition table editing tool
that can be used to fix this problem but I wouldn't try it unless you
have lots of knowledge about how partition tables are constructed. When
this problem occurs, the physical arrangement of the partitions on the
disk does not match the physical order of the partitions in the
partition table. (ie. The first primary partition in the partition table
is the second physical primary partition on the disk.)

Other than the tools above, the only other possibility to fix this
problem is to delete partitions from the drive and move the remaining
partitions to make the physical arrangement match the partition table
sequence. The simplest way to do this is to delete all partitions and
start over but that will also remove the hidden recovery partition and
all of its software.

Phil Sherman


Vickie Seley wrote:
> On 26 Feb 2007 18:27:58 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> Cmos battery: no. Bad Ram: unlikely, but possible.
>>> Does knoppix working help us pinpoint where to look to see why winxp
>>> installed from the IBM Recovery disks won't boot the Thinkpad?
>> You have identified many working components at least. The main knoppix
>> menu (before you even load) has a command prompt. Type "memtest" there
>> to test RAM.
>
> Thanks to your diagnostic suggestions, I've proven the memory is good.
>
> Knoppix memtest reported no problem with the memory.
> Also I put the BIOS into diagnostic mode and it too after a long time,
> reported no problems with the 1MB of memory which is all this Thinkpad can
> take I think.
>
> The wierd thing is that the disk works fine in all things except booting to
> Windows. This gets me fighting mad and that's why I am trying to defeat
> that nasty MBR. I will win but it won't be an easy catfight!
> Thanks in advance for any help.
> Vickie

While you're at it, determine the manufacturer of the hard drive (not
necessarily IBM or Hitachi), download the free manufacturer's diagnostics and
run them. You might as well find out the true condition of the entire drive,
not just the MBR... Ben Myers

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:08:56 -0800, Vickie Seley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:14:36 GMT, mike wrote:
>> Do some more IBM research into what it takes to replace the hard drive
>> and get it set up for the restore operation. Might be something as
>> simple as deleting all the partitions before you start...but maybe
>> not...
>
>You are correct. It IS the hard drive. Whew! That's the easiest to fix. I
>tested it by borrowing a working hard disk with an operating system on it
>and the system worked just fine. Booted right up to Windows XP.
>
>It's kind of annoying that I have a dead 80Gb hard drive that gives no
>error messages. I'm going to try to see if it's the MBR that's causing the
>problem.
>
>Thanks in advance for any help,
>Vicki

Vickie Seley wrote:
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 04:25:56 +0100, Sjouke Burry wrote:
>>>> Your BOOT sector is knackered, run FDISK /MBR
>>>> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/69013
>>> That does NOT apply to NTFS.
>> A damaged boot sector is independent of operating system.
>
> I have the machine running by putting a new disk in but it is very
> interesting that the original 80GB disk works fine for everything but
> booting to windows.
>
> So, I would suspect a damaged master boot record based on all your
> suggestions and my googling in that area, thanks to your pointers.
>
> The wierd thing is there is no "/MBR" option to the fdisk on the knoppix
> CD!
>
> Do you know how to get knoppix fdisk to do the mbr option?
> Thanks in advance for any help,
> Vicki
boot an original XP cd to the repair console and "fixboot"

--
Return address is VALID!
Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale Here:
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/sale.html

Also while you are at it, unless some data on the hard drive is important and
impossible to re-create, wipe the drive clean and reinstall Windows. With
Windows being the unpredictable and capricious beast that it is, I can never
trust what it is telling me about the hardware. All it takes is one bit
flipped in a block on a hard drive and Windows loses its mind.

If you find it necessary to back up the data on the hard drive, you can use
readily available PCMCIA or USB adapters to attach the drive to a system for
backup purposes. This all assumes, of course, that the non-bootable drive
still has enough of its NTFS file structure left to be read... Ben Myers

On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 11:27:29 -0500, Ben Myers
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>While you're at it, determine the manufacturer of the hard drive (not
>necessarily IBM or Hitachi), download the free manufacturer's diagnostics and
>run them. You might as well find out the true condition of the entire drive,
>not just the MBR... Ben Myers
>
>On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 07:08:56 -0800, Vickie Seley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 23:14:36 GMT, mike wrote:
>>> Do some more IBM research into what it takes to replace the hard drive
>>> and get it set up for the restore operation. Might be something as
>>> simple as deleting all the partitions before you start...but maybe
>>> not...
>>
>>You are correct. It IS the hard drive. Whew! That's the easiest to fix. I
>>tested it by borrowing a working hard disk with an operating system on it
>>and the system worked just fine. Booted right up to Windows XP.
>>
>>It's kind of annoying that I have a dead 80Gb hard drive that gives no
>>error messages. I'm going to try to see if it's the MBR that's causing the
>>problem.
>>
>>Thanks in advance for any help,
>>Vicki

Phil, to expand on your comments, Vickie can 'save' the 'hidden'
partition with Acronis (do NOT use Ghost as there are MANY reports of
problems imaging ThinkPads hidden partition with Ghost). Acronis is
supposed to have a 100% GOOD track record properly imaging a 'ThinkPad'
HD.

Once the hidden partition is imaged it's a simple matter of deleting ALL
partitions and starting afresh with the 80 GB HD.

There is a BIOS routine to enable/disable that partition so all goes
well with the above described proceedures so if you need the routine
reply back.

An aside: I too have a Thinkpad (T41) and would like to get it to dual
boot (XP and Win98SE for legacy software I *MUST* have). Cannot figure
out how to get it to dual boot. Have tried and tried but run into a
similar situation as Vickie, blinking cursor top left corner OR one of
the two OS's works, not the other. Hmmm

I have two tower computers here which both have multi-boot
configurations so setting up a PC to multi-boot is not new, but setting
it up on this laptop is!

Anybody know how to set-up Win98 and Xp to dual-boot on a Thinkpad?

Vic
___
"Phil Sherman" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:_VYEh.1291$(E-Mail Removed)...
> Go to the Lenovo website and do a search on "master boot record repair
> kit" You'll need to download the diskette image and figure out how to
> boot it. You can use a diskette drive (maybe USB attached) or build a
> bootable CD from the diskette.
>
> If winxp won't boot after restoring from the recovery disks there are
> two possibilities I've seen.
> 1. You are restoring the wrong set of disks and don't have the proper
> drivers for your system.
> 2. You have a mishmashed partition table that is confusing the win
boot
> process. This problem is almost impossible to locate because all
> partitioning tools see nothing wrong with this and the partitions can
be
> accessed without problems. The only tool I've used that can fully show
> the problem is the Partition Magic partition table print utility. This
> program comes with the product but must be run independently of
> Partition Magic. There's also a low level partition table editing tool
> that can be used to fix this problem but I wouldn't try it unless you
> have lots of knowledge about how partition tables are constructed.
When
> this problem occurs, the physical arrangement of the partitions on the
> disk does not match the physical order of the partitions in the
> partition table. (ie. The first primary partition in the partition
table
> is the second physical primary partition on the disk.)
>
> Other than the tools above, the only other possibility to fix this
> problem is to delete partitions from the drive and move the remaining
> partitions to make the physical arrangement match the partition table
> sequence. The simplest way to do this is to delete all partitions and
> start over but that will also remove the hidden recovery partition and
> all of its software.
>
> Phil Sherman
>
>
> Vickie Seley wrote:
> > On 26 Feb 2007 18:27:58 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >> Cmos battery: no. Bad Ram: unlikely, but possible.
> >>> Does knoppix working help us pinpoint where to look to see why
winxp
> >>> installed from the IBM Recovery disks won't boot the Thinkpad?
> >> You have identified many working components at least. The main
knoppix
> >> menu (before you even load) has a command prompt. Type "memtest"
there
> >> to test RAM.
> >
> > Thanks to your diagnostic suggestions, I've proven the memory is
good.
> >
> > Knoppix memtest reported no problem with the memory.
> > Also I put the BIOS into diagnostic mode and it too after a long
time,
> > reported no problems with the 1MB of memory which is all this
Thinkpad can
> > take I think.
> >
> > The wierd thing is that the disk works fine in all things except
booting to
> > Windows. This gets me fighting mad and that's why I am trying to
defeat
> > that nasty MBR. I will win but it won't be an easy catfight!
> > Thanks in advance for any help.
> > Vickie

In comp.sys.ibm.pc.hardware.chips Vickie Seley <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> The wierd thing is there is no "/MBR" option to the fdisk
> on the knoppix CD!

Of course not! /MBR is is an option to MS-FDISK.EXE which
really does something different, installs it's own boot loader.

Most Linux distributions use LILO or GRUB as boot loaders.
Knoppix should have a menu for this.

-- Robert