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Re: pluging into USB port crashing system

 
 
Paul
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      31st Dec 2011
Allen Drake wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 07:18:30 -0500, "SC Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> "Rodney Pont" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:56:19 -0500, SC Tom wrote:
>>>
>>>> The 3 plug-ins for USB78, 1112, and 910 are allUSB2.0, if I'm reading the manual right. So if the 3.0 on the case is
>>>> plugged into any of them, that may be where your problem lies. I don't know if the pin-outs are different between
>>>> USB2.0
>>>> and 3.0, but I wouldn't think so. There's no pin-out difference between 1.0 and 2.0, IIRC. (Just guessing here :-) )
>>> USB 3.0 has five extra pins compared to previous versions, see:
>>>
>>> http://www.usb3.com/usb3-info.html
>>>

>> Yeah, I probably should have looked it up before posting that. Thanks for setting me straight :-)

>
>
> Even the cables are different. I wonder why make different cables if
> the USB3 is downward compatible.


The USB3 socket has two sections. A high speed section and a low
speed section.

The USB1.1 or USB2 connector, fits into the low speed section of the USB3 socket.

If a USB3 peripheral is plugged in, then it has access to the high speed interface.

The reason it was done that way, is because they needed two diff pairs, to
do a nice interface similar to how SATA and PCI Express work. They wanted
to be competitive with those standards, and as time passes, USB3 will be
able to evolve to match the speeds of the other standards.

One thing that differs on USB3, compared to SATA and PCI Express, is the USB3
interconnect cabling can be longer. And that causes some difference in what
you can safely do, when designing a standard for higher speeds.

http://www.usb3.com/

"One thing to note is that operating simultaneously in SuperSpeed and
Hi-Speed is not allowed. It is an either or scenario."

So of the nine signals, they're not using all of them at exactly the
same time. That page also mentions the names of the signals.

VBUS \
D- \___ Traditional USB2 set of pins, includes bus power
D+ /
GND /
RX- \
RX+ \
GND_Drain \___ Full duplex USB3 interface
TX- /
TX+ /
Shield <--- outer shield

The diagram for that, is easier to see here.

http://www.interfacebus.com/usb-cable-diagram-30.html

Paul
 
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Flasherly
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      1st Jan 2012
On Dec 31 2011, 5:47 pm, Allen Drake <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> On Sat, 31 Dec 2011 10:30:56 -0800 (PST), Flasherly
>
>
>
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >On Dec 30, 7:56 pm, Allen Drake <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 16:56:19 -0500, "SC Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> >"Allen Drake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in messagenews:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >> On Fri, 30 Dec 2011 07:22:06 -0500, "SC Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> >>>"Allen Drake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in messagenews(E-Mail Removed)...
> >> >>>> On Thu, 29 Dec 2011 19:10:45 -0500, "SC Tom" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>
> >> >>>>>"Allen Drake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in messagenews:(E-Mail Removed)...

>
> >> >>>>>> When I even get close to plugging anything into either of my front
> >> >>>>>> panel USB ports the system crashes and reboots. When it boots this
> >> >>>>>> time the report says there is no CPU present. I double checked to make
> >> >>>>>> sure the cable is plugged in correctly and tried another set of pins
> >> >>>>>> on motherboard, there are three, but the result is the same. I have
> >> >>>>>> been searching and find others claiming a underpowered PSU is to blame
> >> >>>>>> but I have a Termaltake 750 which is new. This is a newly build system
> >> >>>>>> and has no other problems. I am using an M4A87TD/US3 board with AMD
> >> >>>>>> Phenom and Supertalent RAM.

>
> >> >>>>>> If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate the help.

>
> >> >>>>>> Thanks.

>
> >> >>>>>> Al.

>
> >> >>>>>It's possible you have a faulty PS. Do you by chance have a spare you could use temporarily? (I know, not exactly a
> >> >>>>>closet shelf item.) Is it possible that the pinout is different from the previous MB (had that happen to me going
> >> >>>>>from
> >> >>>>>one ASUS MB to another)? If you have the manual for your MB (or check it out online), you can compare them.

>
> >> >>>>>Is this a new problem, or did it manifest itself right after the build was completed? And by "newly build", does
> >> >>>>>that
> >> >>>>>include the case and all?

>
> >> >>>> I did check the pin out and actually moved the cable to another
> >> >>>> position on the board. I am getting a similar reaction by using the
> >> >>>> rear ports but in that case the system simply locks up. I have a USB3
> >> >>>> external drive attached which I will remove and try more debugging
> >> >>>> later tonight.

>
> >> >>>> I am not sure if this just started or not. I have several builds
> >> >>>> going at one time and sometimes I lose focus. That and the 12 hour
> >> >>>> days at my day job wears me down a bit.

>
> >> >>>Oh yeah, I remember those days all too well. When I worked at a Ford assembly plant back in the mid 70s, we were on an
> >> >>>80 hour work week for three months. My kids forgot my name and my wife found someone else (although she sure loved
> >> >>>that
> >> >>>40 hours of overtime paycheck). We worked from 3PM to 3:30AM M-Sat, and 3-11:30PM on Sunday. After they got the number
> >> >>>of vehicles they wanted in storage, they laid off everyone, some for up to two years. Not a good time in southeastern
> >> >>>Michigan.

>
> >> >> I love work so I will take the OT any time I can get it. I have been
> >> >> in the work force since the 60s have done all shifts. I like the grave
> >> >> yard myself but now am confined to 6 AM to 6PM and 8 hrs on Saturdays.
> >> >> My last job I got one Sunday off a month. Defense industry and NASA
> >> >> but that has been cut back somewhat too.

>
> >> >>>But I digress. Keep us posted on your PC. The USB3 ports are only in the back, on the MB, aren't they? The front panel
> >> >>>ports are USB2 IIRC from glancing through the manual for your MB.

>
> >> >> Yes the USB 3 is on the back but the Antec Nine Hundred Two case has
> >> >> a USB 3 and two USB 2 posts on the top front. I think I will get out
> >> >> the multi meter now and see what I can find. I'll let you know what
> >> >> happens.

>
> >> >The 3 plug-ins for USB78, 1112, and 910 are allUSB2.0, if I'm reading the manual right. So if the 3.0 on the case is
> >> >plugged into any of them, that may be where your problem lies. I don't know if the pin-outs are different between USB2.0
> >> >and 3.0, but I wouldn't think so. There's no pin-out difference between 1.0 and 2.0, IIRC. (Just guessing here :-) )

>
> >> I found the problem. It was a bad ground. I connected a wire with
> >> alligator clips on each end to the connector on the front to a part of
> >> the case that was not painted. It was crude as the small clip was
> >> connecting to the small rim of the outer edge of the connector. It
> >> barely held on while I looked for a place to connect the other end to
> >> and took a chance but it worked. Then I noticed a wire connecting
> >> underneath the top next to the large fan. It was a bit loose so I
> >> tightened it and so that must have been the real problem. I replaced
> >> it with a slightly longer screw and tightened it so it will hold. It
> >> seems that little screw is just not long enough to stay tight. I
> >> removed the alligator clip wire and all seems well. Now both the front
> >> and rear USB posts work as intended.

>
> >That is weird, for a faulted ground connect to show up as a USB
> >error. When I've had subsequent problems after assembling a system, I
> >may rebuild it either in two ways: a) breadboarded, everything on
> >plastic and connected for powering up together, or b) totally taken
> >down, just for the MB and PS to be meticulously secured into the case,
> >with care in watching for how it's powering up, one by one, then as
> >any extra component are also added. Really ticks me off if I can't
> >get it up and finally right, like the 775 MB/CPU Newegg sent me last
> >time on a special sale. On the box it was shipped, in Newegg's big
> >letters, the sticker says: You may have gotten quite a deal !! . . .A
> >big deal, yep, up half the night tearing apart other systems to try
> >and find a temporary fix for a working-parts combo, giving up, calling
> >Newegg the next morning, and him telling me they're only paying half
> >shipping if I return it?

>
> >Oh, yea - he did it offer it to me again, at one over again and half
> >off. . . .Be like a $75 MB for $35 on sale, he's finally offering at
> >$17 if I'll just take it and get it out of his hair. Thanks, I said.
> >Only, I just can't take the excitement of another sales frenzy, no
> >more and no thanks.

>
> >Used to love their open-box sales, but tend these days to look twice
> >for reputable manufacturers and reviews within reasonable pricing on
> >new sealed equipment.

>
> Lately I have been putting my systems together on a Top Deck Tech
> Stationhttp://www.amazon.com/Deck-Tech-Station-Open-Air-Standard/dp/B001JYRZ54


How about that. . .first I've seen the likes on one of those. Reminds
me of my $300 coffee grinder with the top casings removed for easy
burr adjustments. Same applies to both - watch where you're putting
that drink, bub.

>
> but this one obviously escaped me as the problem was the case itself.
> For once I am thankful I couldn't figure out how to get the front off
> or I may never have found that loose screw. I am sort of used to those
> kind of things remembering those HeathKit ham radio days of the early
> 60s
>
> I have not fallen for any of those "deals" you mentioned. I just
> don't feel at my age I have that much time to do any more screwing
> around then I already do and don't mind disposing of some hard earned
> money when I have fewer gray matter than I do green.


Yea, I hear you. (I looked up your ASUS MB before that first post,
too - it has some nice reviews along King Overclocker/Tweaker). Last
look/see I went through was Pentium D duos and core 2s, various new
and used combos;- got frustrating when I realized I liked a (last of
the semi-new, being 775 sockets are getting sparser) Intel 45-micron
dual core best, over the Celeron lines, on present production lines.
 
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New Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 1
 
      20th Mar 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Tom View Post
"Allen Drake" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> When I even get close to plugging anything into either of my front
> panel USB ports the system crashes and reboots. When it boots this
> time the report says there is no CPU present. I double checked to make
> sure the cable is plugged in correctly and tried another set of pins
> on motherboard, there are three, but the result is the same. I have
> been searching and find others claiming a underpowered PSU is to blame
> but I have a Termaltake 750 which is new. This is a newly build system
> and has no other problems. I am using an M4A87TD/US3 board with AMD
> Phenom and Supertalent RAM.
>
> If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate the help.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Al.


It's possible you have a faulty PS. Do you by chance have a spare you could use temporarily? (I know, not exactly a
closet shelf item.) Is it possible that the pinout is different from the previous MB (had that happen to me going from
one ASUS MB to another)? If you have the manual for your MB (or check it out online), you can compare them.

Is this a new problem, or did it manifest itself right after the build was completed? And by "newly build", does that
include the case and all?
--
SC Tom
Had a similar USB port problem (crashing the system but no additional affects) recently and surmised it might be due to static electricity. I took some copper braid, connected one end to a chassis screw, then grounded the metal shield of the USB device before plugging it in. Seems to solved the problem.
 
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