On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:02:39 -0800, Bass <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:50:42 GMT,
>a?n?g?e?(E-Mail Removed) (The little lost angel) wrote:
>
>
>>I'll think it's fairly safe to say that 480W recommendation that had
>>been floated around since the 6800/X800 launch is coming out of the
>>bull's rear end. From past experimentations on my own as well as
>>friend's, a fully deck out uniproc system with a top end graphics card
>>and lotsa of drives barely make it into the 250W ball park.
>
>Then I guess Nvidia are full of ****? 250w? The internet is rife with
>stories of people blowing 250w and 300w PSU's on even an R9800pro.
>I'm sure some high quality 250w PSU's will pass muster but it's better
>to play it safe than stoopid wittle angel.

As I said before, quality, not quantity.

Sure, people will blow plenty of 250W power supplies because most 250W
power supplies being sold today are bottom-of-the-barrel trash using
crap components and rather generous power measurement practices. They
might claim to be 250W supplies but they simply can't withstand more
than 200W of power being pulled through them.

L'Angel is quite right, even a fully loaded system rarely pulls much
more than 200W.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:02:39 -0800, Bass <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:50:42 GMT,
>a?n?g?e?(E-Mail Removed) (The little lost angel) wrote:
>
>
>>I'll think it's fairly safe to say that 480W recommendation that had
>>been floated around since the 6800/X800 launch is coming out of the
>>bull's rear end. From past experimentations on my own as well as
>>friend's, a fully deck out uniproc system with a top end graphics card
>>and lotsa of drives barely make it into the 250W ball park.
>
>Then I guess Nvidia are full of ****? 250w? The internet is rife with
>stories of people blowing 250w and 300w PSU's on even an R9800pro.
>I'm sure some high quality 250w PSU's will pass muster but it's better
>to play it safe than stoopid wittle angel.

nVidia admitted that they were playing it really safe with their 480W
recommendation. To quote:

"Ujesh Desai, General Manager of Desktop GPUs for Nvidia... Marginal
power supplies and poorly ventilated cases must be taken into
account... people that do not want to overclock, the 480W power
supply and second power connector combination is overkill... A good
quality 350W power supply with a sufficient 12V rail pull can support
the 6800 Ultra standard clocks of 400/550."

Finally, I didn't say a 250W PSU should be used. What I said is the
system barely make it into the 250W ballpark which is the basis for my
opinion that 480W is way ridiculous.

Only somebody without much common sense will buy a 250W PSU to power a
250W system without leaving any margins for error pPppP

--
L.Angel: I'm looking for web design work.
If you need basic to med complexity webpages at affordable rates, email me
Standard HTML, SHTML, MySQL + PHP or ASP, Javascript.
If you really want, FrontPage & DreamWeaver too.
But keep in mind you pay extra bandwidth for their bloated code

Tony Hill <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>> Specifically, I'm considering a new Antec True380 psu
>>(380 watts), with ratings of
>
>Antec makes VERY good quality power supplies. The True380 will
>definitely be a good choice.

Buy an Antec Sonota case, and you get the Tru380 for "free". 8)

Wayne Fulton wrote:
> Is any special powersupply size needed for todays chips like the AMD64
> 3500+ ? The AMD site doesnt seem to have psu recommendations anymore.
> Most cabinets seem to have 300 or 350 watt powersupplies, so I assume
> that still works. Specifically, I'm considering a new Antec True380 psu
> (380 watts), with ratings of
> +5V 35 amps max
> +12V 24 amps max
> 3.3V 28 amps max
>
> That seems like a lot, but I have no clue about actual requirements.
> The computer will also have 1GB memory and 80 and 120 GB hard disk
> drives. Any other ideas? Thanks.
>

I have built a few Athlon64 systems configured typically with:
Athlon 64 3200+ to 3500+
1 GB PC 3200 (2 x 512 MB)
12X DVD burner
2 x 120 GB SATA hard drive
Radeon 9600 or Radeon 9800
that have done just fine with a 310 to 360 W PSU from
PCPowerCooling, Antec, or Enermax.

However, even a "quality" 350 W like the Antec SL350 leaves
little margin for expansion in a system like that. For example,
I later expanded the RAM in one of the systems from 1 GB to 6 GB
(2 x 2 GB, 2 x 1 GB) and had to upgrade the Antec SL350 to cope
with the additional power ( 40 to 50 W ? ) that the RAM upgrade
needed.

My current preferences are the Silencer 310 ATX and 360 ATX from
PCPowerCooling but I want to try the Antec Phantom 350 soon.

Rob Stow <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>My current preferences are the Silencer 310 ATX and 360 ATX from
>PCPowerCooling

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

They've went off the deep-end in their pricing...

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed)lid says...
> Rob Stow <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >My current preferences are the Silencer 310 ATX and 360 ATX from
> >PCPowerCooling
>
> $$$$$$$$$$$$$
>
> They've went off the deep-end in their pricing...

You think $50 (310ATX) or $65(360ATX) is a lot for a power supply? I
paid about $90 for a PCP&C 250W (IIRC) power supply five or so years
ago when I built my K6-III system.

Also note that these are Power Factor corrected supplies.


http://www.pcpowerandcooling.com/prices/index.htm

--
Keith

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:53:11 -0500, Tony Hill
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:


>As I said before, quality, not quantity.
>
>Sure, people will blow plenty of 250W power supplies because most 250W
>power supplies being sold today are bottom-of-the-barrel trash using
>crap components and rather generous power measurement practices. They
>might claim to be 250W supplies but they simply can't withstand more
>than 200W of power being pulled through them.
>
>L'Angel is quite right, even a fully loaded system rarely pulls much
>more than 200W.

Why don't you go read both Nvidia's and ATI's PSU recommendations and
you will see that you are both quite wrong in your estimations. I say
play it safe so that you don't risk a blown PSU and/or damaged
hardware. I use quality (Antec and Zalman) 400w PSU's in both my PC's.
I suggest you go read some other hardware groups besides this one to
get the real deal. Niether of you are taking PEAK power pulls into the
equation. Fatal error there. Do either of you even run heavy duty 3D
games?

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:48:13 GMT,
a?n?g?e?(E-Mail Removed) (The little lost angel) wrote:



>Only somebody without much common sense will buy a 250W PSU to power a
>250W system without leaving any margins for error pPppP

Saying, "From past experimentations on my own as well as
friend's, a fully deck out uniproc system with a top end graphics card
and lotsa of drives barely make it into the 250W ball park." may well
lead some people to think that is all they need. Running a 3D game
puts a lot more demand on the PSU than running Internet Explorer.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 12:48:13 GMT,
a?n?g?e?(E-Mail Removed) (The little lost angel) wrote:


>nVidia admitted that they were playing it really safe with their 480W
>recommendation. To quote:

BTW, you consider Enermax a quality PSU? I ask because the reason I
went to a 400w Antec was because a 360w Enermax I had wasn't even good
enough to run a Geforce4.

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 00:02:39 -0800, Bass wrote:

> On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 03:50:42 GMT,
> a?n?g?e?(E-Mail Removed) (The little lost angel) wrote:
>
>
>>I'll think it's fairly safe to say that 480W recommendation that had
>>been floated around since the 6800/X800 launch is coming out of the
>>bull's rear end. From past experimentations on my own as well as
>>friend's, a fully deck out uniproc system with a top end graphics card
>>and lotsa of drives barely make it into the 250W ball park.
>
> Then I guess Nvidia are full of ****? 250w? The internet is rife with
> stories of people blowing 250w and 300w PSU's on even an R9800pro.
> I'm sure some high quality 250w PSU's will pass muster but it's better
> to play it safe than stoopid wittle angel.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What a wonderful way to introduce yourself to the regulars in the group!

Hint for the newbies: L'Angel has been a regular in .chips for *many*
years. She's certainly an angel (can *run* across the country in a day
and "wittle" is condescending to tha max! Stoopid? I don't think so. My
bet is that she's done more research into power supples than have you. It
was sorta her thing for some time. ;-)

You're showing your MCP stripes and they're smelly as a barnyard!

--
Keith