[floppybootstomp]

They rejected a congestion charge

At least Manchester folk had the oppurtunity to vote.

Here in London, that bastion of freedom and democracy, Ken Livingstone, foisted it upon us whether we wanted it or not. And we didn't want it.

And all the revenue raised was used for was a PR campaign to highlight The Mayor of London's Office which roughly translated meant Livingstone's ego.

Viva la Manchester

And for me - rant over, sorry but the congestion charge is a bugbear of mine.

[Ian]

I voted last week - and I'm so glad it came back no. 10 out of 10 councils rejected the vote, only 3 needed to for it to not go ahead.

The public transport here is so much worse than other places I've lived, the tram system doesn't' go to many of the main areas of Manchester never mind the surrounding areas. Even if you do need to use it, it's packed and expensive. Busses are the same unless you use one of the major routes (which, to be fair can be cheap and fast - i.e. Fallowfield > Piccadilly).

You might think because I winged about the public transport system I would be in favour, but the improvements are really negligible on the scale of things. The trams will still be jam packed so you can't get on in rush hour, and many of the most important extension areas are coming after the charge comes in to force.

I've used public transport for many years in Manchester, and it's only been the last 2 years that I've used the car. I personally wouldn't (generally) be effected by the congestion charge, as I travel in the opposite direction to the charging times... but many I know would.

The tube is soooooooo much better than the tram system, it actually goes places people want to go, it's a huge network, they are cheaper, run more often etc... If we had a system like that in place then they would stand a chance, but a disjointed network (ironically called integrated) in Manchester doesn't' have the same appeal. After looking at the TIF package, the new transport arrangements are a marginal improvement at one heck of a cost.

The main reason I voted against this is that if it comes into effect in Manchester, then it will happen in all the other big towns too. Inevitably, every time you want to go into another city there will be a charge. Surely if the public transport system and road infrastructure is inadequate it should be improved through general taxation/road tax as we all rely on it directly or indirectly. Having pockets of charging zones seems inefficient, unfair and counter productive. Putting a good enough transport system in place encourage people switch from cars to trains - wielding a big stick and a small carrot isn't going to convince anyone.

FWIW, the original London CC zone covered 8 square miles... the Manchester one is 80 square miles.

[TriplexDread]

Yeah I remember last year they tried to bring into action for liverpool

Not only that but the also wanted to keep the standard Tunnel charges ASWELL lmao

It got thrown out with no hesitation

[psd99]

Originally Posted by floppybootstomp

They rejected a congestion charge

At least Manchester folk had the oppurtunity to vote.

Here in London, that bastion of freedom and democracy, Ken Livingstone, foisted it upon us whether we wanted it or not. And we didn't want it.
.

+ 1

Guess what? I finally agree with you on something

Must be Christmas..wait it almost is.

Victory to all the residents of Manchester. I am still distraught that we didn't get the chance to have some sot of vote here in London for the congestion charge as well. I wonder why....

"What Manchester says today the rest of England say tomorrow."

so I hope!

[psd99]

Originally Posted by Ian Cunningham

FWIW, the original London CC zone covered 8 square miles... the Manchester one is 80 square miles.

wow that is very very big could be bigger than London itself well from West to East.

[Adywebb]

A great decision for local democracy - assuming of course they don't follow the Irish example and have a re-vote until they get the 'right' result


I was watching a programme up here in the Midlands about the M6 Toll which is 5 years old this year - and the operators were wondering why the number of vehicles using it had fallen from a peak of 55K vehicles in 2006 to 43K this year........perhaps it may just have something to do with the charges which they are increasing shortly to £4.70 for cars and £9.40 for lorries? - try reducing them instead......its not rocket science!

[Ian]

Originally Posted by Adywebb

A great decision for local democracy - assuming of course they don't follow the Irish example and have a re-vote until they get the 'right' result

Couldn't agree more - this really annoyed me. It doesn't seem very democratic to have a no vote, and then to be told "sorry wrong answer, try again". I'm sure some of the people that voted yes last time will vote no out of spite to teach them a lesson!

Originally Posted by Adywebb

I was watching a programme up here in the Midlands about the M6 Toll which is 5 years old this year - and the operators were wondering why the number of vehicles using it had fallen from a peak of 55K vehicles in 2006 to 43K this year........perhaps it may just have something to do with the charges which they are increasing shortly to £4.70 for cars and £9.40 for lorries? - try reducing them instead......its not rocket science!

Do you know if the M6 toll will revert to a free road once it's paid for itself? I'm guessing it's a no, but I don't know.

Toll roads are one of my pet peeves, as surely that's what road tax is for. If it's an essential part of infrastructure then you'd expect it to be included. It's of no benefit to the government coffers to have slow archaic roads as it would reduce the performance of the workforce, leading to lower tax revenues anyway - a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy to an extent.

[Adywebb]

Originally Posted by Ian Cunningham

Do you know if the M6 toll will revert to a free road once it's paid for itself? I'm guessing it's a no, but I don't know.

Doesn't look that way Ian - seems its privately owned and financed:

Midland Expressway Ltd boss Tom Fanning today defended the toll motorway, saying an average of 45,000 vehicles every day had been taken from the M6.

“I would consider this a great achievement and our loyal customers have embraced the concept of a tolled motorway as it ensures absolute reliability through the dedication of my staff.”

And he defended the rise in toll prices because of the need to secure a return on the £900 million investment.

Mr Fanning added: “Increasing tolls is not a decision we take lightly. In fact, this is only the fourth time since opening that we have made this adjustment.

“The road was built by the private sector with huge risks undertaken particularly with regard to traffic levels. The investment in building the road and the costs of operating it and maintaining our premier service and free flow must be part of the consideration when setting the toll rate.”

[Ian]

Ah of course, I forgot it was PFI.

It's been almost empty on the M6 Toll when I've used it (probably only 5/6 times) - great for the one off use, but I'd be annoyed with the cost if I had to use it regularly.

[feckit]

It's a secret, but i think i can trust most of you, but did you know that the M25 is managed by NCP!
True, very true.