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.NET Framework 4.0: Impact On Startup?

 
 
(PeteCresswell)
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      18th Apr 2012
I finally got my boot time to network availability down to a
little under 1:30.

Then I installed a transcoder called HandBrake - which included
..NET Framework 4.0 and the time to network availability shot up
to a truly heinous 3+ minutes.

OK.... So I uninstalled HandBrake, leaving .Net 4.0 in place.

Oops.... boot time still bad... down to 2:45, but that's still
too long.

Looking at Add/Remove Programs, I see that I have 4 or 5 versions
of .NET:

- 2.0 SP2

- 3.0 SP2

- 3.5 SP1

- 4.0 Client Profile
- 4.0 Extended


So... 2 Questions:

- Is .NET 4 a likely offender?

- Would it make any sense to delete all except
the two 4.0 versions?
--
Pete Cresswell
 
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Paul
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      18th Apr 2012
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> I finally got my boot time to network availability down to a
> little under 1:30.
>
> Then I installed a transcoder called HandBrake - which included
> .NET Framework 4.0 and the time to network availability shot up
> to a truly heinous 3+ minutes.
>
> OK.... So I uninstalled HandBrake, leaving .Net 4.0 in place.
>
> Oops.... boot time still bad... down to 2:45, but that's still
> too long.
>
> Looking at Add/Remove Programs, I see that I have 4 or 5 versions
> of .NET:
>
> - 2.0 SP2
>
> - 3.0 SP2
>
> - 3.5 SP1
>
> - 4.0 Client Profile
> - 4.0 Extended
>
>
> So... 2 Questions:
>
> - Is .NET 4 a likely offender?
>
> - Would it make any sense to delete all except
> the two 4.0 versions?


Did you have a copy of Bootvis at one time ? Or was that someone else ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootvis

Bootvis can give a breakdown on startup times.

http://www.tweakhound.com/xp/bootvis/bootvis_before.gif

DotNET is in theory, a library for the usage of DotNET executables.
But with Microsoft, you can never be sure they haven't jammed something
else in there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework

"The size is around 54 MB for .NET 3.0, 197 MB for .NET 3.5, and
250 MB for .NET 3.5 SP1."

"The .NET 3.5 SP1 full installation package includes the full runtime
installation packages for .NET 2.0 SP2 as well as .NET 3.0 SP2 for
multiple operating systems"

"The size issue is partially solved with .NET 4 installer (x86 + x64)
being 54 MB and not embedding full runtime installation packages
for previous versions."

And rather than being "versions", DotNET is in layers, and each new
version is a new layer for the cake. While you might consider removing
1.0 or 1.1 if you're no longer using it, you can leave 2.0+ where they are,
as they're a part of the layer cake. The 4.0 installer, if no other installs
had been done, might have installed a lighter weight set of layers.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...DotNet.svg.png

Paul
 
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(PeteCresswell)
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      18th Apr 2012
Per Paul:
>Did you have a copy of Bootvis at one time ? Or was that someone else ?
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootvis
>
>Bootvis can give a breakdown on startup times.
>
>http://www.tweakhound.com/xp/bootvis/bootvis_before.gif
>
>DotNET is in theory, a library for the usage of DotNET executables.
>But with Microsoft, you can never be sure they haven't jammed something
>else in there.


No, it wasn't me with Bootvis. But a couple years back I had
*something* that recorded how long each entity took during boot
time. Been trying to recollect, but no luck so far.

After removing the problem app and seeing no change, I backed out
..NET 4 and, sure enough, boot tome was reduced back to what it
was before that install - so, as you suggest, *something* is
going on there.

Thanks for the layer cake analogy; now I know not to mess with
earlier versions of .NET.
--
Pete Cresswell
 
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jim
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      20th Apr 2012
On Wed, 18 Apr 2012 08:51:37 -0400, in
microsoft.public.windowsxp.general, "(PeteCresswell)" <(E-Mail Removed)>,
wrote

>After removing the problem app and seeing no change, I backed out
>.NET 4 and, sure enough, boot tome was reduced back to what it
>was before that install - so, as you suggest, *something* is
>going on there.



Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was Windows 7.

BTW, I backed out of 3.5 SP1 and gained overall system performance and
lost one rather clever app (Jing). From all appearances, 3.5 SP1 was
causing a "phantom" -- but real -- CPU usage, as reported by Task Manager.
Where the System Idle may have been 90+% but the CPU usage at the bottom
of the task manager screen would be reporting CPU usage of 25-30%. While
I was allowing for a probable asynchronous update of those two figures the
readings were reasonably consistent and removing 3.5 SP1 made that problem
disappear.

jim




 
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Ken Blake, MVP
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      20th Apr 2012
On Fri, 20 Apr 2012 10:35:41 -0400, jim <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
> highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was Windows 7.




Sorry, that's not correct. The .net framework 4.0 does run under XP
SP3.

See http://www.microsoft.com/download/en....aspx?id=17851

Ken Blake, Microsoft MVP
 
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VanguardLH
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      20th Apr 2012
jim wrote:

> Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
> highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was
> Windows 7.


"How to determine which versions and service pack levels of the
Microsoft .NET Framework are installed"
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/k...aspx?id=318785

Basically, go look under the following key to see which versions you
currently have installed:

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\NET Framework Setup\NDP

You can also tell by going to %WINDIR%\Microsoft.NET\Framework in
Windows Explorer.
 
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(PeteCresswell)
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      20th Apr 2012
Per jim:
>Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
>highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was Windows 7.
>
>BTW, I backed out of 3.5 SP1 and gained overall system performance and
>lost one rather clever app (Jing). From all appearances, 3.5 SP1 was


Seem like I am not the only one with this problem under 4.0.

There's quite a lengthy thread on it at
http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/For...2-c2c1b08bfea1

Suggested solutions do not sound consistent - and the few I have
tried did not work for one reason or another... but it's pretty
clear that *something* is going on with 4.0 under XP Pro SP3.
--
Pete Cresswell
 
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Henry
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      21st Apr 2012
(PeteCresswell) wrote:
> Per jim:
>
>>Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
>>highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was Windows 7.
>>
>>BTW, I backed out of 3.5 SP1 and gained overall system performance and
>>lost one rather clever app (Jing). From all appearances, 3.5 SP1 was

>
>
> Seem like I am not the only one with this problem under 4.0.
>
> There's quite a lengthy thread on it at
> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/For...2-c2c1b08bfea1
>
> Suggested solutions do not sound consistent - and the few I have
> tried did not work for one reason or another... but it's pretty
> clear that *something* is going on with 4.0 under XP Pro SP3.



I'm running WinXP Pro SP3 and Net 4.0 with no problems. It installed with no
problems.

Henry
 
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Paul
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      21st Apr 2012
Henry wrote:
> (PeteCresswell) wrote:
>> Per jim:
>>
>>> Are you running XP? I was under the impression that 3.5 SP1 was the
>>> highest version that was compatible with XP and that .net 4 was
>>> Windows 7.
>>>
>>> BTW, I backed out of 3.5 SP1 and gained overall system performance and
>>> lost one rather clever app (Jing). From all appearances, 3.5 SP1 was

>>
>>
>> Seem like I am not the only one with this problem under 4.0.
>>
>> There's quite a lengthy thread on it at
>> http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/For...2-c2c1b08bfea1
>>
>>
>> Suggested solutions do not sound consistent - and the few I have
>> tried did not work for one reason or another... but it's pretty
>> clear that *something* is going on with 4.0 under XP Pro SP3.

>
>
> I'm running WinXP Pro SP3 and Net 4.0 with no problems. It installed
> with no problems.
>
> Henry


So did you read the thread Pete quotes ?

The aggravating factors seem to be:

1) .NET 4.0 installs a service with NGEN in the name.
2) NGEN service is "recompiling" dotNET executables already on the computer.

Perhaps if the NGEN service was already disabled, you'd get no symptoms to speak of.

One participant in the thread claims eventually the modifying activity will stop.
Perhaps if you have no dotNET applications at all, there is very little for it to do.
If it's doing an actual scan, it takes time even to list your entire hard
drive.

The delay in networking could also have to do with some network driver
having some dotNET code in it, and there being some interference that
early in the boot process, between what NGEN wants to do, and what
the OS needs to do to get the hardware running.

*******

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native_Image_Generator

"The Native Image Generator, or simply NGEN is the Ahead-of-time compilation
service of the .NET Framework. It allows a .NET assembly to be pre-compiled
instead of letting the Common Language Runtime do a Just-in-time compilation
at runtime. In some cases the execution will be significantly faster with AOT
than with JIT."

"Once NGEN is run against an assembly, the resulting native image is placed
into the Native Image Cache"

"NGEN is intended to make the assembly execute faster by removing the JIT
compilation process at runtime, but this does not always improve performance
because some optimizations can be done only by a JIT compiler"

Looks like a wee bit of over-optimization then...

Paul
 
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(PeteCresswell)
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      21st Apr 2012
Per Henry:
>I'm running WinXP Pro SP3 and Net 4.0 with no problems.


Have you put a stopwatch on the time from cold start to network
availability?
--
Pete Cresswell
 
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