So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV
camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I
have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a
Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9
years old.
Stunning.
So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next
time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the
2025 or thereabouts.
AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the
footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that
enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last
when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
What about magnetic fields?

What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?

Is that idea stupid?
Forget about cost for now.

Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and
> stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file.
> There I was at 9 years old.
> Stunning.

> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the
> next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be
> the 2025 or thereabouts.

> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?

Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises your chances.

> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?

They last fine.

> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?

Nope.

> What about magnetic fields?

Same thing.

> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?

Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.

> Is that idea stupid?

Nope, very viable.

> Forget about cost for now.

Rod Speed wrote:
> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and
>> stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file.
>> There I was at 9 years old.
>> Stunning.
>
>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
>> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the
>> next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be
>> the 2025 or thereabouts.
>
>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?
>
> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises your chances.
>
>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?
>
> They last fine.
>
>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
>
> Nope.
>
>> What about magnetic fields?
>
> Same thing.
>
>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
>> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
>> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
>> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?
>
> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.
>
>> Is that idea stupid?
>
> Nope, very viable.
>
>> Forget about cost for now.
>
>

Damn, that was fast!
Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea
since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse?

Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic field

Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
>>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
>>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987,
>>> and stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file.
>>> There I was at 9 years old.
>>> Stunning.
>>
>>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape
>>> survived. Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm
>>> guessing the next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to
>>> MiniDV will be the 2025 or thereabouts.
>>
>>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
>>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
>>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?
>>
>> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises
>> your chances.
>>
>>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?
>>
>> They last fine.
>>
>>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> What about magnetic fields?
>>
>> Same thing.
>>
>>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in
>>> there, filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory
>>> box, with a few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of
>>> those lead liners that look like trash bags and stored it (properly
>>> labeled of course)?
>>
>> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.
>>
>>> Is that idea stupid?
>>
>> Nope, very viable.
>>
>>> Forget about cost for now.
>>
>>
>
> Damn, that was fast!
> Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea
> since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse?

If you're likely to be a bit rough with it.

> Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic field

Not clear what you are asking there, maybe the post got sent before it was complete.

Previously Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV
> camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I
> have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a
> Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9
> years old.
> Stunning.
> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next
> time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the
> 2025 or thereabouts.
> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the
> footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that
> enclosure for a few decades be feasible?

Depends. You might run itdo component limitations, like capacitor
lifetime (5-10 years), lubrrication fluid increasing its viscosity
(no idea) and the like. HDDs are not removable media designed
for long-term storage.

> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?

I think "unknown" is accurate information here.

> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?

That should not be an issue.

> What about magnetic fields?

Again not an issue.

> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?

See above.

> Is that idea stupid?

Not stupid, but with a lot of unknowns.

> Forget about cost for now.

Then I would strongly advise using archival tape or MOD.
Both have known long-term aging characteristics.

Arno

In article <ft6tim$8jg$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV
>camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I
>have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a
>Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9
>years old.
>Stunning.
>So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
>Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next
>time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the
>2025 or thereabouts.
>AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the
>footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that
>enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last
>when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
> What about magnetic fields?
>
>What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
>filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
>few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
>that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?
>
>Is that idea stupid?
>Forget about cost for now.



Make two and keep one off-site.

IMO, the chance of a properly stored disk drive dying are down there
with losing it in a house fire.

Even if the chances are miniscule, it happens to *somebody*.


--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail

In article <ft6v9t$ei7$(E-Mail Removed)>,
Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Rod Speed wrote:
>> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
>>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
>>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and
>>> stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file.
>>> There I was at 9 years old.
>>> Stunning.
>>
>>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
>>> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the
>>> next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be
>>> the 2025 or thereabouts.
>>
>>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
>>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
>>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?
>>
>> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises your chances.
>>
>>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?
>>
>> They last fine.
>>
>>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
>>
>> Nope.
>>
>>> What about magnetic fields?
>>
>> Same thing.
>>
>>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
>>> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
>>> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
>>> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?
>>
>> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.
>>
>>> Is that idea stupid?
>>
>> Nope, very viable.
>>
>>> Forget about cost for now.
>>
>>
>
>Damn, that was fast!
>Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea
>since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse?
>
>Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic field

Unless you take the disk into the MRI exam with you, magnetic fields
are no more a problem with an unused drive than they are for a drive
inside your computer.

As for shock, unpowered disks are more shock resistant than you think.
Look you the detail spec sheet on the manufacturer's web site, you'll
find 100Gs or more acceptable.

Don't use a cheap safe. The cheap "2 hour" safe is made for saving
paper documents. It works by chemical reaction in a fire. It soaks the
papers with hot moisture that would probably kill the electronics on
the disk.




--
Al Dykes
News is something someone wants to suppress, everything else is advertising.
- Lord Northcliffe, publisher of the Daily Mail

Rod Speed wrote:
> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
>>>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
>>>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987,
>>>> and stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file.
>>>> There I was at 9 years old.
>>>> Stunning.
>>>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape
>>>> survived. Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm
>>>> guessing the next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to
>>>> MiniDV will be the 2025 or thereabouts.
>>>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
>>>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
>>>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?
>>> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises
>>> your chances.
>>>
>>>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?
>>> They last fine.
>>>
>>>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
>>> Nope.
>>>
>>>> What about magnetic fields?
>>> Same thing.
>>>
>>>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in
>>>> there, filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory
>>>> box, with a few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of
>>>> those lead liners that look like trash bags and stored it (properly
>>>> labeled of course)?
>>> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.
>>>
>>>> Is that idea stupid?
>>> Nope, very viable.
>>>
>>>> Forget about cost for now.
>>>
>> Damn, that was fast!
>> Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea
>> since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse?
>
> If you're likely to be a bit rough with it.
>
>> Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic field
>
> Not clear what you are asking there, maybe the post got sent before it was complete.
>
>

Yes it did.
Strange.
My question was; how strong a magnetic field would be needed to erase
the contents of a hard drive?
The poster below me (Al) said something about an MRI and we know that's
strong - stronger than anything that would happen inside the average
American home.
Except maybe an EMP blast... in which case I don't give a rat's ass
about my home videos I'll be looking for food. When civilization gets
back on its feet my DVD backup-backups will be fine.

Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> Rod Speed wrote:
>> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>> Rod Speed wrote:
>>>> Justin <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current
>>>>> MiniDV camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a
>>>>> problem. I have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987,
>>>>> and stuck in a Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV
>>>>> file. There I was at 9 years old.
>>>>> Stunning.
>>>>> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape
>>>>> survived. Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm
>>>>> guessing the next time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording
>>>>> to MiniDV will be the 2025 or thereabouts.
>>>>> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would
>>>>> copying the footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard
>>>>> drive and storing that enclosure for a few decades be feasible?
>>>> Yep. And writing that stuff to both a hard drive and DVDs maximises
>>>> your chances.
>>>>
>>>>> How well do hard drives last when they're not being used?
>>>> They last fine.
>>>>
>>>>> Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
>>>> Nope.
>>>>
>>>>> What about magnetic fields?
>>>> Same thing.
>>>>
>>>>> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in
>>>>> there, filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory
>>>>> box, with a few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of
>>>>> those lead liners that look like trash bags and stored it
>>>>> (properly labeled of course)?
>>>> Thats a bit of overkill with the wrapping.
>>>>
>>>>> Is that idea stupid?
>>>> Nope, very viable.
>>>>
>>>>> Forget about cost for now.
>>>>
>>> Damn, that was fast!
>>> Follow up questions... would using a laptop drive be a better idea
>>> since they are designed to take a certain amount of abuse?
>>
>> If you're likely to be a bit rough with it.
>>
>>> Just speaking about a worst case scenario... how strong a magnetic
>>> field
>>
>> Not clear what you are asking there, maybe the post got sent before
>> it was complete.
>>
>>
>
> Yes it did.
> Strange.

Its easy to do by hitting the wrong key when typing.

> My question was; how strong a magnetic field would
> be needed to erase the contents of a hard drive?

Much stronger than you will ever see.

> The poster below me (Al) said something about an MRI
> and we know that's strong - stronger than anything that
> would happen inside the average American home.

Yep, and laptops survive those fine in airports etc.

> Except maybe an EMP blast... in which case I don't give a rat's ass
> about my home videos I'll be looking for food. When civilization gets
> back on its feet my DVD backup-backups will be fine.

Yep. And likely the hard drive will be too.

"Justin" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ft6tim$8jg$(E-Mail Removed)...
> So I was looking at AVCHD cameras the other day. With my current MiniDV
> camcorders I can store the tape for over a decade without a problem. I
> have proven this with old 8mm tapes recorded in 1987, and stuck in a
> Digital8 camera and Firewired into a PC ad a DV file. There I was at 9
> years old.
> Stunning.
> So for 21 years sitting in a damn cellar, an old analog tape survived.
> Apparently new digital tapes will fare better. So I'm guessing the next
> time I really checkout the stuff I'm recording to MiniDV will be the
> 2025 or thereabouts.
> AVCHD camcorders don't use tapes as we all know. Would copying the
> footage to a portable Firewire/ESATA/USB2 hard drive and storing that
> enclosure for a few decades be feasible? How well do hard drives last
> when they're not being used? Will the magnetic information deteriorate?
> What about magnetic fields?
>
> What if one took a portable enclosure, stuffed a 200GB drive in there,
> filled it with his AVCHD footage, stuck it in the factory box, with a
> few Silica gel packs, maybe wrapped it with one of those lead liners
> that look like trash bags and stored it (properly labeled of course)?
>
> Is that idea stupid?
> Forget about cost for now.

I'm not sure I'd trust any mechanical gizmo after sitting for a couple of
decades. What's wrong with recording to DVD's and recopying every few years.
Migrate to new technology as it becomes established. For example, if and
when Blue Ray becomes fully established, migrate to that. There will always
be a lengthy transition to new technology and in many cases, the same device
will be fully compatible with both old and new - e.g. CD/DVD writers. Many
current Blue Ray writers will write to CD and DVD. Hell, you can still buy
floppy drives that work in today's PC's and that technology is more than a
quarter century old. Keep in mind that you're talking digital recording and
copying with no real loss of information after many copies.