OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you know
of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there. Anyway,
this is the forum that I follow so I thought there might be an old
timer around who could provide me with an answer.

Also, on a problem severity scale of 1-10, this is probably a 1.5. But,
I'm an academic and a Computer Scientist and I don't like it when
computers act in non-deterministic ways. Here's my problem.

I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain MS-DOS
programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use Win98SE
to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.

When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment. It
just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to boot
Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).

I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD K6 on
a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive and
partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.

Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the problem
part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up screen
I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
miss the window and it installs Win98SE.

So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always go
to the Win98 start-up screen? I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in
both systems are identical, so it isn't that.

Arnie

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you know
> of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there. Anyway,
> this is the forum that I follow so I thought there might be an old
> timer around who could provide me with an answer.
>
> Also, on a problem severity scale of 1-10, this is probably a 1.5. But,
> I'm an academic and a Computer Scientist and I don't like it when
> computers act in non-deterministic ways. Here's my problem.
>
> I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain MS-DOS
> programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
> used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
> dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use Win98SE
> to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
>
> When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
> please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
> without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment. It
> just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to boot
> Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
>
> I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD K6 on
> a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive and
> partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
> MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
>
> Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the problem
> part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up screen
> I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
> miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
>
> So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always go
> to the Win98 start-up screen? I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in
> both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
>
> Arnie

try axcel's site...
http://www.mdgx.com/

or russ walter author of secret guide to computers
phone Russ at 603-666-6644 (24 hours, he's usually in)
e-mail to russATsecretfunDOTcom

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:

> OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you know
> of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there. Anyway,
> this is the forum that I follow so I thought there might be an old
> timer around who could provide me with an answer.
>
> Also, on a problem severity scale of 1-10, this is probably a 1.5. But,
> I'm an academic and a Computer Scientist and I don't like it when
> computers act in non-deterministic ways. Here's my problem.
>
> I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain MS-DOS
> programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
> used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
> dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use Win98SE
> to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
>
> When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
> please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
> without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment. It
> just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to boot
> Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
>
> I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD K6 on
> a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive and
> partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
> MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
>
> Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the problem
> part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up screen
> I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
> miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
>
> So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always go
> to the Win98 start-up screen? I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in
> both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
>
> Arnie

Well, I don't have a choice #7 on mine, but anyway:

1) You can edit msdos.sys and change things in there.

or

2) Use the System Info utility-

Start:Programs:Accessories:System Tools:System Info

In Tools menu, select "System Configuration Utility"

Click "Advanced". Click "Enable Startup Menu". Apply

(and prepare to reboot).

This will modify msdos.sys for you, without having to use
an attrib command.

Now, you should start in the Safe Mode screen every time,
where you can select Normal if you want.

I hope this is what you wanted, because my last pure DOS
experience was on a PC running at 6MHz :-)

Paul

Paul wrote:
> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> > OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you
know
> > of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there.
Anyway,
> > this is the forum that I follow so I thought there might be an old
> > timer around who could provide me with an answer.
> >
> > Also, on a problem severity scale of 1-10, this is probably a 1.5.
But,
> > I'm an academic and a Computer Scientist and I don't like it when
> > computers act in non-deterministic ways. Here's my problem.
> >
> > I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain
MS-DOS
> > programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
> > used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
> > dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use
Win98SE
> > to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
> >
> > When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
> > please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
> > without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment.
It
> > just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to
boot
> > Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
> >
> > I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD
K6 on
> > a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive
and
> > partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
> > MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
> >
> > Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the
problem
> > part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up
screen
> > I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
> > miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
> >
> > So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always
go
> > to the Win98 start-up screen? I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files
in
> > both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
> >
> > Arnie
>
> Well, I don't have a choice #7 on mine, but anyway:
>
> 1) You can edit msdos.sys and change things in there.
>
> or
>
> 2) Use the System Info utility-
>
> Start:Programs:Accessories:System Tools:System Info
>
> In Tools menu, select "System Configuration Utility"
>
> Click "Advanced". Click "Enable Startup Menu". Apply
>
> (and prepare to reboot).
>
> This will modify msdos.sys for you, without having to use
> an attrib command.
>
> Now, you should start in the Safe Mode screen every time,
> where you can select Normal if you want.
>
> I hope this is what you wanted, because my last pure DOS
> experience was on a PC running at 6MHz :-)

Thanks Paul. That fixed it!

arnie
>
> Paul

On 27 Mar 2005 13:25:16 -0800, (E-Mail Removed) wrote:

>
>Paul wrote:
>> In article <(E-Mail Removed)>,
>> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>
>> > OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you
>know
>> > of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there.
>Anyway,
>> > this is the forum that I follow so I thought there might be an old
>> > timer around who could provide me with an answer.
>> >
>> > Also, on a problem severity scale of 1-10, this is probably a 1.5.
>But,
>> > I'm an academic and a Computer Scientist and I don't like it when
>> > computers act in non-deterministic ways. Here's my problem.
>> >
>> > I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain
>MS-DOS
>> > programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
>> > used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
>> > dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use
>Win98SE
>> > to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
>> >
>> > When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
>> > please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
>> > without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment.
>It
>> > just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to
>boot
>> > Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
>> >
>> > I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD
>K6 on
>> > a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive
>and
>> > partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
>> > MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
>> >
>> > Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the
>problem
>> > part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up
>screen
>> > I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
>> > miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
>> >
>> > So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always
>go
>> > to the Win98 start-up screen? I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files
>in
>> > both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
>> >
>> > Arnie
>>
>> Well, I don't have a choice #7 on mine, but anyway:
>>
>> 1) You can edit msdos.sys and change things in there.
>>
>> or
>>
>> 2) Use the System Info utility-
>>
>> Start:Programs:Accessories:System Tools:System Info
>>
>> In Tools menu, select "System Configuration Utility"
>>
>> Click "Advanced". Click "Enable Startup Menu". Apply
>>
>> (and prepare to reboot).
>>
>> This will modify msdos.sys for you, without having to use
>> an attrib command.
>>
>> Now, you should start in the Safe Mode screen every time,
>> where you can select Normal if you want.
>>
>> I hope this is what you wanted, because my last pure DOS
>> experience was on a PC running at 6MHz :-)
>
>Thanks Paul. That fixed it!
>
>arnie


So much for: "I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in both systems are
identical, so it isn't that."

(Of course, everyone here knew that was bs... ;-)

[Posted & Mailed; please f'up to newsgroup]

On 26 Mar 2005 15:38:52 -0800, in <alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus>,
(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>
> OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you know
> of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there.
[snip]

Well, strictly speaking, any of the more generic DOS/Windows newsgroups (such
as those in the <comp.os.ms-windows.*> hierarchy) would be more fitting; but
since you're already here...

> I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain MS-DOS
> programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I formerly
> used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
> dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use Win98SE
> to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
>
[snip]

Well, here's the first place you're laboring under a misconception...

First, you *probably* don't really need MS-DOS 6.22 at all, since Win98SE
comes with (and by default runs on top of) MS-DOS 7.1 anyway. It would be an
odd application program indeed which would run correctly under MS-DOS 6.22,
yet not run under MS-DOS 7.x (tho', if it's a *really* old app, you might need
to use the SETVER utility to lie to the app about what version of DOS it's
running under).

Secondly, even in the extremely unlikely event that you really do need to keep
MS-DOS 6.22 around, it can both "interface with [your] other computers" and
"manage larger disks" to more-or-less the same degree as Win98SE can. Both
are capable of networking (the former via the freely downloadable "Microsoft
Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS" and/or "Microsoft Workgroup Add-On for
MS-DOS"); and how large a disk can be supported is primarily determined by the
underlying hardware, not the OS (at least until you get up to really huge
drives... say, >32GB -- maybe even up to ~100GB). This is not to say that
there aren't some significant advantages to be had from MS-DOS 7.1 / Win98SE
(FAT-32 and LFN support, in particular); but you nonetheless probably don't
*need* it.

> When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
> please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up screen
> without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right moment. It
> just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to boot
> Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
>
[snip]

Well, that's one way to do it; but it's hardly the "cleanest" approach.
Better is to use separate dedicated Primary DOS Partitions for each OS
version, selected at run-time by a proper boot manager. But if your current
setup is working acceptably for you, you probably don't need to change it now.

> I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD K6 on
> a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive and
> partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
> MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
>
[snip]

Do you really mean "over it", literally -- which would imply that the second
partition is dedicated to data only, with no OS (or, probably, application
programs) installed on it? Or do you mean that one of those 2GB partitions is
formatted with (and runs under) MS-DOS 6.22, while the other one is formatted
with (and runs under) MS-DOS 7.1 / Win98SE?

> Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the problem
> part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up screen
> I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or I
> miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
>
[snip]

ITYM "boots/runs Win98SE", not "installs Win98SE"

In any event... This behavior is controlled by the "BootMulti=", "BootWin=",
"BootGUI=" and "BootMenu=" entries in your MSDOS.SYS file (found in the root
directory of whichever Primary DOS Partition you're booting from). To force
the new installation to behave like the old one, you want the following
settings:

BootGUI=0
BootMenu=1
BootMulti=1
BootWin=0

You can find more information on these settings here:
<http://www.thegorx.net/windows/help/msdos.htm> (among many other places).

> So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always go
> to the Win98 start-up screen?
[snip]

See above. It's not a "trick", per se, since this is all standard documented
functionality.

> I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in
> both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
>
[snip]

No, they aren't; and yes, it is; respectively.

Are you sure you're looking at the right copy (or copies) of MSDOS.SYS? As
noted above, only the one in the root directory of whichever Primary DOS
Partition you're booting from makes any difference.

--

Jay T. Blocksom
--------------------------------
Appropriate Technology, Inc.
usenet02[at]appropriate-tech.net

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Unsolicited advertising sent to this domain is expressly prohibited under
47 USC S227 and State Law. Violators are subject to prosecution.

Jay T. Blocksom wrote:
> [Posted & Mailed; please f'up to newsgroup]
>
> On 26 Mar 2005 15:38:52 -0800, in <alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.asus>,
> (E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> >
> > OK, before you all rag on me for this one, let me explain. If you
know
> > of a more appropriate forum to ask this, I'll repost it there.
> [snip]
>
> Well, strictly speaking, any of the more generic DOS/Windows
newsgroups (such
> as those in the <comp.os.ms-windows.*> hierarchy) would be more
fitting; but
> since you're already here...
>
> > I have to keep an old computer around that can still run certain
MS-DOS
> > programs that I need for my Computer Architecture class. I
formerly
> > used a Gateway 486 machine with a 133 MHz AMD K5. It was set up to
> > dual-boot between MSDOS and Win98SE. I did this so I could use
Win98SE
> > to interface with my other computers and also manage larger disks.
> >
> [snip]
>
> Well, here's the first place you're laboring under a misconception...

>
> First, you *probably* don't really need MS-DOS 6.22 at all, since
Win98SE
> comes with (and by default runs on top of) MS-DOS 7.1 anyway. It
would be an
> odd application program indeed which would run correctly under MS-DOS
6.22,
> yet not run under MS-DOS 7.x (tho', if it's a *really* old app, you
might need
> to use the SETVER utility to lie to the app about what version of DOS
it's
> running under).
>
> Secondly, even in the extremely unlikely event that you really do
need to keep
> MS-DOS 6.22 around, it can both "interface with [your] other
computers" and
> "manage larger disks" to more-or-less the same degree as Win98SE can.
Both
> are capable of networking (the former via the freely downloadable
"Microsoft
> Network Client version 3.0 for MS-DOS" and/or "Microsoft Workgroup
Add-On for
> MS-DOS"); and how large a disk can be supported is primarily
determined by the
> underlying hardware, not the OS (at least until you get up to really
huge
> drives... say, >32GB -- maybe even up to ~100GB). This is not to say
that
> there aren't some significant advantages to be had from MS-DOS 7.1 /
Win98SE
> (FAT-32 and LFN support, in particular); but you nonetheless probably
don't
> *need* it.
>
> > When I installed Win98SE over the MS-DOS on the Gateway box I was
> > please to find that it would always go to the Win98 Start-up
screen
> > without me touching any keys, like F8 or CNTL, at the right
moment. It
> > just went right to the start-up screen and I could then choose to
boot
> > Win98SE (choice #1) or MS-DOS 6.22 (choice #7).
> >
> [snip]
>
> Well, that's one way to do it; but it's hardly the "cleanest"
approach.
> Better is to use separate dedicated Primary DOS Partitions for each
OS
> version, selected at run-time by a proper boot manager. But if your
current
> setup is working acceptably for you, you probably don't need to
change it now.
>
> > I decided to retire the Gateway and replace it with a 450 MHz AMD
K6 on
> > a Diamond Micronics 200 motherboard. I took an old 4 GByte drive
and
> > partitioned it with 2 FAT16, 2 Gyte, partitions and loaded it with
> > MS-DOS6.22. Next I installed Win98SE over it.
> >
> [snip]
>
> Do you really mean "over it", literally -- which would imply that the
second
> partition is dedicated to data only, with no OS (or, probably,
application
> programs) installed on it? Or do you mean that one of those 2GB
partitions is
> formatted with (and runs under) MS-DOS 6.22, while the other one is
formatted
> with (and runs under) MS-DOS 7.1 / Win98SE?
>
> > Everything works fine, but with a little annoyance. Here's the
problem
> > part. With the new set-up, in order to get to the Win98 start-up
screen
> > I've got to hit either CNTL or F8 at exactly the right instant or
I
> > miss the window and it installs Win98SE.
> >
> [snip]
>
> ITYM "boots/runs Win98SE", not "installs Win98SE"
>
> In any event... This behavior is controlled by the "BootMulti=",
"BootWin=",
> "BootGUI=" and "BootMenu=" entries in your MSDOS.SYS file (found in
the root
> directory of whichever Primary DOS Partition you're booting from).
To force
> the new installation to behave like the old one, you want the
following
> settings:
>
> BootGUI=0
> BootMenu=1
> BootMulti=1
> BootWin=0
>
> You can find more information on these settings here:
> <http://www.thegorx.net/windows/help/msdos.htm> (among many other
places).
>
> > So, is there any trick that I missed that would force it to always
go
> > to the Win98 start-up screen?
> [snip]
>
> See above. It's not a "trick", per se, since this is all standard
documented
> functionality.
>
> > I should add that the MSDOS.SYS files in
> > both systems are identical, so it isn't that.
> >
> [snip]
>
> No, they aren't; and yes, it is; respectively.
>
> Are you sure you're looking at the right copy (or copies) of
MSDOS.SYS? As
> noted above, only the one in the root directory of whichever Primary
DOS
> Partition you're booting from makes any difference.
>
> --
>
> Jay T. Blocksom
> --------------------------------
> Appropriate Technology, Inc.
> usenet02[at]appropriate-tech.net
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary

> safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -- Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759.
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - -
> Unsolicited advertising sent to this domain is expressly prohibited
under
> 47 USC S227 and State Law. Violators are subject to prosecution.

Thanks Jay,
I saved your response for future reference.

arnie