This is my first try at video editting so I'm trying to figure out what people do with the files

First, I copy the file down and I have a 12 gig master copy, make my edits and then have a 7 gig edited copy. I can copy both those back to dv tape, but I can't leave them on the hard drive as I can't afford 20 gig for every tape I edit

So what happens if I want to go back to make changes? I tried renaming the master file so the mswmm doesn't recognize it and I get red X's in the timeline. If I click the X's, it allows me to search for the file so I can then pull in the renamed file. However, I recaptured the video and made a second master to test with because in the future I want to delete the master and just reimport from tape. This time, it said that the new copy doesn't match the original enough to use when I clicked the red x's and did a search for the file

So what do most people do with the files? Do you actually leave all the masters and edited versions on your pc? This seems to take too much disc space. I was to just keep the edit's so I can go back and make edits if I need to by recapturing the master and using the changes from the mswmm file. Is this possible

Thanks

Hi,

You seem to have a good grasp of the situation.... so it's a matter of
managing the tradeoffs. I explore that topic on the Managing > Source Files
page of my website.

If you can do with a WMV file as the source file instead of a DV-AVI one,
then you're at about 7 percent the space needed for a DV-AVI file. If you
can't live with the quality loss of a compressed file, then hard drive space
is needed.
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 - www.papajohn.org
Photo Story 2 - www.photostory.papajohn.org

..
"spider12" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:5945358E-FCAF-43A5-B1C3-(E-Mail Removed)...
> This is my first try at video editting so I'm trying to figure out what
people do with the files.
>
> First, I copy the file down and I have a 12 gig master copy, make my edits
and then have a 7 gig edited copy. I can copy both those back to dv tape,
but I can't leave them on the hard drive as I can't afford 20 gig for every
tape I edit.
>
> So what happens if I want to go back to make changes? I tried renaming
the master file so the mswmm doesn't recognize it and I get red X's in the
timeline. If I click the X's, it allows me to search for the file so I can
then pull in the renamed file. However, I recaptured the video and made a
second master to test with because in the future I want to delete the master
and just reimport from tape. This time, it said that the new copy doesn't
match the original enough to use when I clicked the red x's and did a search
for the file.
>
> So what do most people do with the files? Do you actually leave all the
masters and edited versions on your pc? This seems to take too much disc
space. I was to just keep the edit's so I can go back and make edits if I
need to by recapturing the master and using the changes from the mswmm file.
Is this possible?
>
> Thanks.
>

That's very disappointing. The whole advantage of digital format to me is that I can make a copy of it without any loss of quality like there was in the analog days. If I have to compress the files, then information will be lost

So do most people just compress it when capturing the source and recording it back to tape? The DV tape can store all the information without a problem so it's very frustrating that I need to keep copies of all my stuff on my hard drive when I also have it on tape. Isn't tape supposed to be the medium to use for large backup files? My thought is that I could buy a tape backup system for these files, but DV tape seems like it should already do that

Why can't I just recapture the information from the tape? If the file length is the same, the mswmm file should know what to pull for the timeline based on the time as long as the source file is the same length as it originally was when the original edits were done

If what I am trying to do is not possible with Window Movie Maker, is there another product out there that will allow this

Also, I seem to keep getting an error when posting to this site. It takes many tries for it to work

Thanks
Scot

Scott,

You can do your high quality copying to the digital camcorder tape without
quality lose, but it's your finished movie, not your source files.... so,
with Movie Maker, you would have to capture it from the camcorder in the
future and do a new project.... which is different from using the same
source material and the previous project file.

What you want is an 'Edit Decision List' (EDL) where specific start and stop
points on the tape can be used by the editing software. Movie Make doesn't
work with an EDL and, as you've seen, it needs the exact same file that was
originally captured.... on a hard drive or disc.

I haven't worked with an EDL to know if it can do what you want. I'm sure
other posters will chime in on this thread. The Windows Media Encoder
supports EDLs, as does Adobe Premiere and other higher-end video editing
software. But that wouldn't link the footage to a Movie Maker project.

MM2 is an entry-level software product and that's one of the things not
supported by it.
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2 - www.papajohn.org
Photo Story 2 - www.photostory.papajohn.org

..
"spider12" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:9C1E05DD-9256-4BB7-A9F6-(E-Mail Removed)...
> That's very disappointing. The whole advantage of digital format to me is
that I can make a copy of it without any loss of quality like there was in
the analog days. If I have to compress the files, then information will be
lost.
>
> So do most people just compress it when capturing the source and recording
it back to tape? The DV tape can store all the information without a
problem so it's very frustrating that I need to keep copies of all my stuff
on my hard drive when I also have it on tape. Isn't tape supposed to be the
medium to use for large backup files? My thought is that I could buy a tape
backup system for these files, but DV tape seems like it should already do
that.
>
> Why can't I just recapture the information from the tape? If the file
length is the same, the mswmm file should know what to pull for the timeline
based on the time as long as the source file is the same length as it
originally was when the original edits were done.
>
> If what I am trying to do is not possible with Window Movie Maker, is
there another product out there that will allow this?
>
> Also, I seem to keep getting an error when posting to this site. It takes
many tries for it to work.
>
> Thanks.
> Scott
>

You are asking (what we have all gone through) storage, moving and editing movies. As far as I have learned, you must decide if the finished product needs to be archived away from your HD. If so DVD, back to DV-tape or whatever media. If you don't "finish" your movie and want to edit later then you (if you don't want compression) must keep your full .avi on your hard disk or video tape for editing later. You can "browse" to find the "X's" that were there in your MM2 projects from where you moved them, deleted them (trash) or you can restore them from your raw .avi from the camera (by import and renaming to the name in your timeline) Once you are satisfied, render and copy to another media, or save (expect to get a larger HD). Or just save the large files, tinker with them as long as you want and then delete the large files (once archived as above). Although you don't have to delete the MM2 project file in case you want to reconstruct from your raw .avi.
I'm a novice and would like to here from someone else...that's what I've learned so far.

Hi there,

I'm in the process of digitizing/archiving a bunch of old
VHS videos that will easily be 10+GB. My plan is to just
never create such large files, rather always limit every
capture session to about 4GB -- that way I can "DLA" such
files to a DVD once the immediate need expires; delete
them from your hard drive; and, restore them intact when
again needed.

I realized this does not help people who already have
created such files, but at least it's a reasonable plan
for future projects.

Harry

>-----Original Message-----
>This is my first try at video editting so I'm trying to
figure out what people do with the files.
>
>First, I copy the file down and I have a 12 gig master
copy, make my edits and then have a 7 gig edited copy. I
can copy both those back to dv tape, but I can't leave
them on the hard drive as I can't afford 20 gig for every
tape I edit.
>
>So what happens if I want to go back to make changes? I
tried renaming the master file so the mswmm doesn't
recognize it and I get red X's in the timeline. If I
click the X's, it allows me to search for the file so I
can then pull in the renamed file. However, I recaptured
the video and made a second master to test with because
in the future I want to delete the master and just
reimport from tape. This time, it said that the new copy
doesn't match the original enough to use when I clicked
the red x's and did a search for the file.
>
>So what do most people do with the files? Do you
actually leave all the masters and edited versions on
your pc? This seems to take too much disc space. I was
to just keep the edit's so I can go back and make edits
if I need to by recapturing the master and using the
changes from the mswmm file. Is this possible?
>
>Thanks.
>
>.
>

The problem is that I cannot use dv tape for backup purposes. Since everything is digital, I am unclear as to why capturing information from the tape multiple times would not create the exact same file (and why MM2 is so specific about the input file)

Since DV tape is not a useful medium for archiving large amounts of information, is there another medium out there that could archive say 20 GB of info? Maybe another tape format? It can't be too expensive either as to be cost prohibitive either

By the way, when posting to this site, I keep getting the following error:Service Temporarily Unavailabl
We apologize for this inconvenience. Please try again later.

I have to try many times until it works. Does anyone else get this error

Thanks
Scot

Hello There,

> The problem is that I cannot use dv tape for backup purposes. Since
> everything is digital, I am unclear as to why capturing information from
> the tape multiple times would not create the exact same file (and why MM2
> is so specific about the input file).

Yes, it is rather annoying, you would think that they would give you the
option of overwriting. You can of course delete the previous file first
(Remember to empty your recycle bin as well) or you could create a sub
directory using some informative naming sequence and save the next copy
into that directory.

> Since DV tape is not a useful medium for archiving large amounts of
> information, is there another medium out there that could archive say 20
> GB of info? Maybe another tape format? It can't be too expensive either
> as to be cost prohibitive either.

There is nothing at our end of the market that would do the job well. You
could always buy one of the newer Dual Layer DVD writers, that would give
you around 8.4GB of space, but the drawback is the amount of time to create
it and of course you would need three Dual Layer disks...expensive!! I
recently bought a 160GB hard drive for storing my AVI stuff on. Its OK and
quite convenient but you do run the risk of loosing the lot...so I am going
to start saving long term stuff on DV tape.

> By the way, when posting to this site, I keep getting the following
> error:Service Temporarily Unavailable
> We apologize for this inconvenience. Please try again later.

Sorry can't help with that one, don't use it. (You should get a copy of
this program.....very clever and way better than Outlook in respect to
newsgroup messages)
--
Best Wishes.....John Kelly
www.the-kellys.org
www.the-kellys.co.uk
Yahoo ID Movie_Maker_The_Kellys
---
All material gained from other sources is duly acknowledged. No Value is
obtained by publishing in any format other peoples work

I found this thread because I searched for "avi archive".

Following from spider12's question, "This is my first try at video editting
so I'm trying to figure out what people do with the files." I got the
horrible feeling that you helpful responders may have missed Spider12's point.

Accepting that video files are 'large' we surely acknowledge that if we are
to manipulate them then we must ensure that we have sufficient drive space
for the purpose. I took that as read.

I too am new to 'movie' files, although I have many digital still images.
The stills I archive as they came from the camera - because I can never go
back and repeat that particular shot (however good or bad).

The movies get me .avi files in the 12-13+ Gigabyte range which I would also
like to archive as they came from the camera. I can do this by feeding them
back to a new tape in the camera. Not excessive on cost but takes an hour
per tape. Then another hour per tape if/when I need to retrieve it. I am
not sure that the retrieved file would be an exact copy of the original.
Also, the tapes will be of little value when the camera dies.

There is, to me, a logic in archiving the movies to DVD . Ok, three DVDs
per movie is again not an excessive cost, but the .avi file must first be
split, then reassembled after retrieve. Would that be identical to the
original ?

I feel that there must be a lossless compression available which has a
chance of reducing 13+Gb to within 5.7 Gb, with it's counterpart
decompression which would indeed retrieve the .avi as the original. I
suspect that this is the information that Spider12 also sought.

I hope that amongst the group watchers there are some users with in-depth
experience of lossless codecs which would meet the need, and who would be
willing to advise us 'newbies'.

Thank you.

When it comes to files sizes, DV-AVI files are already compressed.... take
any of them and zip it and you'll see how little it'll go down in size....
the reduction is only about 10% versus the 85% reduction you see when you
convert an uncompressed BMP file to a compressed JPG.

Lossless codecs will give you files bigger than the 13 GB per hour of
DV-AVI, not smaller.
--
PapaJohn

Movie Maker 2: www.papajohn.org
PhotoStory 2: www.photostory.papajohn.org
..
..
"LeoK" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:28D081A9-D012-4A9F-9D05-(E-Mail Removed)...
>I found this thread because I searched for "avi archive".
>
> Following from spider12's question, "This is my first try at video
> editting
> so I'm trying to figure out what people do with the files." I got the
> horrible feeling that you helpful responders may have missed Spider12's
> point.
>
> Accepting that video files are 'large' we surely acknowledge that if we
> are
> to manipulate them then we must ensure that we have sufficient drive space
> for the purpose. I took that as read.
>
> I too am new to 'movie' files, although I have many digital still images.
> The stills I archive as they came from the camera - because I can never go
> back and repeat that particular shot (however good or bad).
>
> The movies get me .avi files in the 12-13+ Gigabyte range which I would
> also
> like to archive as they came from the camera. I can do this by feeding
> them
> back to a new tape in the camera. Not excessive on cost but takes an hour
> per tape. Then another hour per tape if/when I need to retrieve it. I am
> not sure that the retrieved file would be an exact copy of the original.
> Also, the tapes will be of little value when the camera dies.
>
> There is, to me, a logic in archiving the movies to DVD . Ok, three DVDs
> per movie is again not an excessive cost, but the .avi file must first be
> split, then reassembled after retrieve. Would that be identical to the
> original ?
>
> I feel that there must be a lossless compression available which has a
> chance of reducing 13+Gb to within 5.7 Gb, with it's counterpart
> decompression which would indeed retrieve the .avi as the original. I
> suspect that this is the information that Spider12 also sought.
>
> I hope that amongst the group watchers there are some users with in-depth
> experience of lossless codecs which would meet the need, and who would be
> willing to advise us 'newbies'.
>
> Thank you.