I've never done a web before. Used FP 2000. Finished
product doesn't look bad in IE, but terrible in Netscape.
www.cowandesigns.com. In netscape the thumbnails don't
always display; netscape seems to place them wherever it
wants; and it displays the table's lines that I've blanked
out. I've devoured all the written info I can find and
picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and still
can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both too. I
welcome any suggestions with thanks.

Stacy

You need the border attribute in your tables to be set to 0.

Also, "bordercolor" is an IE-only attribute.

Plus, you are using the spacebar
(      &nbsp as a formatting tool. Bad idea
in any browser.

Bob Lehmann

"Stacy Marvelous" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:340e01c4719b$1ded0a40$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've never done a web before. Used FP 2000. Finished
> product doesn't look bad in IE, but terrible in Netscape.
> www.cowandesigns.com. In netscape the thumbnails don't
> always display; netscape seems to place them wherever it
> wants; and it displays the table's lines that I've blanked
> out. I've devoured all the written info I can find and
> picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and still
> can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both too. I
> welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>
> Stacy
>

>-----Original Message-----
>I've never done a web before. Used FP 2000. Finished
>product doesn't look bad in IE, but terrible in Netscape.
>www.cowandesigns.com. In netscape the thumbnails don't
>always display; netscape seems to place them wherever it
>wants;

Your "thumbnails" are, in fact, full-sized pictures that
you're transmitting to the browser, and then forcing the
browser to shrink. The time required to transmit these
fill-sized files may be resulting in some timeouts.

For best results, use your favorite picture-editing
program to create some true thumbnails that are
physically the size you want, and use these for
hyperlinking to the full-sized picture.

FrontPage also has an AutoThumbnail feature you can use.

A third possibility is first, for each
existing "thumbnail", select it and then click the
Resample button on the Pictures toolbar. Then, when you
save the page and the Save Embedded Pictures dialog box
appears, be sure to save the new pictures and not
overwrite the existing files.

Note, however, that in FP2000, both the AutoThumbnail
feature and the Resample button are only 256-color tools.
That's why using a true picture editor produces better
results.

>and it displays the table's lines that I've
>blanked out.

Specify a border width of 0.

>I've devoured all the written info I can find and
>picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and
>still can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both
>too. I welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>
>Stacy

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------

Hi Jim, and thanks for the quick reply! As a total newbie
to this, I am grateful to find help from those who know.
>-----Original Message-----
>
>Your "thumbnails" are, in fact, full-sized pictures that
>you're transmitting to the browser, and then forcing the
>browser to shrink. The time required to transmit these
>fill-sized files may be resulting in some timeouts.

That would happen just in Netscape? Altho, they aren't
too speedy in IE either.
>
>For best results, use your favorite picture-editing
>program to create some true thumbnails that are
>physically the size you want, and use these for
>hyperlinking to the full-sized picture.

So are you saying use TWO pictures for each?
Ah, that's what I'd used that before and the whole site
seemed to take too long to download, so it was suggested I
change to this. So much to learn, all under time
pressure.

Sadly the owner likes the larger size of
these'thumbnails'...how large can I get away with as a
thumnail (in pixels?)and see a positive difference in
loading?

I did use a photoshop program and wonder if you find much
difference between optimizing "high" or "medium"? Would
it speed it up to change to medium? Would I lose any of
the important detail of the image?

Stacy

>FrontPage also has an AutoThumbnail feature you can use.
>
>A third possibility is first, for each
>existing "thumbnail", select it and then click the
>Resample button on the Pictures toolbar. Then, when you
>save the page and the Save Embedded Pictures dialog box
>appears, be sure to save the new pictures and not
>overwrite the existing files.
>
>Note, however, that in FP2000, both the AutoThumbnail
>feature and the Resample button are only 256-color tools.
>That's why using a true picture editor produces better
>results.
>
>>and it displays the table's lines that I've
>>blanked out.
>
>Specify a border width of 0.

>>I've devoured all the written info I can find and
>>picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and
>>still can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both
>>too. I welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>>
>>Stacy
>
>Jim Buyens
>Microsoft FrontPage MVP
>http://www.interlacken.com
>Author of:
>*----------------------------------------------------
>|\---------------------------------------------------
>|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
>||---------------------------------------------------
>|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
>|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
>|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
>|| (All from Microsoft Press)
>|/---------------------------------------------------
>*----------------------------------------------------
>
>.
>

I Bob, and thanks also for the quick reply.
>-----Original Message-----
>You need the border attribute in your tables to be set to
0.

Okay.
>
>Also, "bordercolor" is an IE-only attribute.

And if I click off the lines of the border, can I get rid
of it in Netscape?
>
>Plus, you are using the spacebar
>( ) as a formatting tool. Bad idea
>in any browser.

Umm, not sure what I did or how. As I say, this is the
first one I've done. What would you have done instead?

Thanks,
Stacy

>
>Bob Lehmann
>
>"Stacy Marvelous" <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote in message
>news:340e01c4719b$1ded0a40$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> I've never done a web before. Used FP 2000. Finished
>> product doesn't look bad in IE, but terrible in
Netscape.
>> www.cowandesigns.com. In netscape the thumbnails don't
>> always display; netscape seems to place them wherever it
>> wants; and it displays the table's lines that I've
blanked
>> out. I've devoured all the written info I can find and
>> picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and
still
>> can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both too. I
>> welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>>
>> Stacy
>>
>
>
>.
>

Comments interspersed...

>-----Original Message-----
>Hi Jim, and thanks for the quick reply! As a total
>newbie to this, I am grateful to find help from those
> who know.
>>-----Original Message-----
>>
>>Your "thumbnails" are, in fact, full-sized pictures
>>that you're transmitting to the browser, and then
>>forcing the browser to shrink. The time required to
>>transmit these fill-sized files may be resulting in
>> some timeouts.
>
>That would happen just in Netscape? Altho, they aren't
>too speedy in IE either.

Maybe. Timeouts are spooky.

>>For best results, use your favorite picture-editing
>>program to create some true thumbnails that are
>>physically the size you want, and use these for
>>hyperlinking to the full-sized picture.
>
>So are you saying use TWO pictures for each?
>Ah, that's what I'd used that before and the whole site
>seemed to take too long to download, so it was suggested
>I change to this. So much to learn, all under time
>pressure.

Well, the first picture on your home page is /images/natl-
armoire-copy-bestLarge.jpg. That file is 75,559 bytes in
size, and its physical dimensions are 375 x 498 pixels.

Right now, you're transmitting all 75,559 bytes to teh
browsers, and then you're asking the browser to resize
the picture down to 200 x 264 pixels.

Just for kicks, I loaded this file into PaintShop Pro
(which is old but I'm used to it), resized it to 200 x
265, and saved it with 10% compression (which is on the
high quality end of the scale). The resulting picture
file was only 15,707 bytes in size. That's a savings of
59852 bytes, or about 80%, which means there's a fivefold
improvement in download time.

Your home page has five of these pictures. Some of the
other pages have a dozen or more.

Hmmm...

>Sadly the owner likes the larger size of
>these'thumbnails'...how large can I get away with as a
>thumnail (in pixels?)and see a positive difference in
>loading?

Use your favorite image editing program to make the
thumbnails as large or as small as you like.

>I did use a photoshop program and wonder if you find
>much difference between optimizing "high" or "medium"?
>Would it speed it up to change to medium? Would I lose
>any of the important detail of the image?
>
>Stacy

This is a judgement call on your part. You would have to
try various settings and see how they affect the results.

FWIW, the biggest jump is usually from 0% compression to
10%, and you can barely see the difference.

Jim Buyens
Microsoft FrontPage MVP
http://www.interlacken.com
Author of:
*----------------------------------------------------
|\---------------------------------------------------
|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
||---------------------------------------------------
|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
|| (All from Microsoft Press)
|/---------------------------------------------------
*----------------------------------------------------

>>FrontPage also has an AutoThumbnail feature you can use.
>>
>>A third possibility is first, for each
>>existing "thumbnail", select it and then click the
>>Resample button on the Pictures toolbar. Then, when you
>>save the page and the Save Embedded Pictures dialog box
>>appears, be sure to save the new pictures and not
>>overwrite the existing files.
>>
>>Note, however, that in FP2000, both the AutoThumbnail
>>feature and the Resample button are only 256-color
tools.
>>That's why using a true picture editor produces better
>>results.
>>
>>>and it displays the table's lines that I've
>>>blanked out.
>>
>>Specify a border width of 0.
>
>>>I've devoured all the written info I can find and
>>>picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and
>>>still can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both
>>>too. I welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>>>
>>>Stacy
>>
>>Jim Buyens
>>Microsoft FrontPage MVP
>>http://www.interlacken.com
>>Author of:
>>*----------------------------------------------------
>>|\---------------------------------------------------
>>|| Microsoft Office FrontPage 2003 Inside Out
>>||---------------------------------------------------
>>|| Web Database Development Step by Step .NET Edition
>>|| Microsoft FrontPage Version 2002 Inside Out
>>|| Faster Smarter Beginning Programming
>>|| (All from Microsoft Press)
>>|/---------------------------------------------------
>>*----------------------------------------------------
>>
>>.
>>
>.
>

"Click on photos to Enlarge
If Icon appears in Lower Right Corner,
Click to Enlarge Again
Click Browser Back Button to Return"

I doubt that anyone will see this or know what it means!
ETC

"Stacy Marvelous" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:340e01c4719b$1ded0a40$(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've never done a web before. Used FP 2000. Finished
> product doesn't look bad in IE, but terrible in Netscape.
> www.cowandesigns.com. In netscape the thumbnails don't
> always display; netscape seems to place them wherever it
> wants; and it displays the table's lines that I've blanked
> out. I've devoured all the written info I can find and
> picked the brains of my 'knowledgeable' friends, and still
> can't fix it. I know it loads slowly in both too. I
> welcome any suggestions with thanks.
>
> Stacy
>