to all

i see this has been coverd here but if you'd be so kind, i have a fwew more
questions about it.

My machine is a HP Compaq Notebook NX7010 running XP Pro with new 3 month
old Hitachi 160Gb HDD.

the boot has failed with the above error on start up after set up screen. I
have run the Hitachi Disk tool which tells me that the drive is fine. Also i
know this as i have taken the drive out and exteranlly attached it to another
machine and i can get most of the files off [except those under my login
username dir.. please see further down].

my questions are:

if i run FIXMBR, will it overwrite any dat on the drive? do i have a choice
in the matter?

will FIXBOOT do the same?

which if these 2 should i run first? and what is the difference between the 2?

lastly, if i do need to format and star tagain as i really really want to
avoid this as i have just completed it migrating everything from the machines
original disc to this one, how do i copy information from this HDD when it is
afixed as an external drive on another machine from dirs that have been
created under users names and these dirs have no access to them except for
that user when he/she is logged on? [sorry i dont know the specific
terminology of this locked dirs].

this is all information i have learnt while researching my problem so if
anyone has any great hints or tips to try or that i have missed please feel
free to enlighten me..

mumbles27 wrote:
> to all
>
> i see this has been coverd here but if you'd be so kind, i have a fwew more
> questions about it.
>
> My machine is a HP Compaq Notebook NX7010 running XP Pro with new 3 month
> old Hitachi 160Gb HDD.
>
> the boot has failed with the above error on start up after set up screen. I
> have run the Hitachi Disk tool which tells me that the drive is fine. Also i
> know this as i have taken the drive out and exteranlly attached it to another
> machine and i can get most of the files off [except those under my login
> username dir.. please see further down].
>
> my questions are:
>
> if i run FIXMBR, will it overwrite any dat on the drive? do i have a choice
> in the matter?
>
> will FIXBOOT do the same?
>
> which if these 2 should i run first? and what is the difference between the 2?
>
> lastly, if i do need to format and star tagain as i really really want to
> avoid this as i have just completed it migrating everything from the machines
> original disc to this one, how do i copy information from this HDD when it is
> afixed as an external drive on another machine from dirs that have been
> created under users names and these dirs have no access to them except for
> that user when he/she is logged on? [sorry i dont know the specific
> terminology of this locked dirs].
>
> this is all information i have learnt while researching my problem so if
> anyone has any great hints or tips to try or that i have missed please feel
> free to enlighten me..

There is no point in doing all this with your hard drive. If the Hitachi
drive utility tells you that the drive is good - and you did a thorough
test, not just a 90-second test - then the problem is on the
motherboard. Contact HP tech support for repair/replacement since this
is a notebook computer.

Pull your hard drive out as you did before you send the machine back to
them (if you have to do this). You can access your documents from a
different computer with a working install of XP or Vista by taking
ownership of the files.

Take Ownership of a File or Folder in Windows XP [Q308421] -
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=308421
How Do I Get the Security tab in Folder Properties? -
http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_security_tab.htm


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

Thank you Malke,


you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?

and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking ownership",
would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they are
the user profile dir? how would i do that?


Andi

"Malke" wrote:

> mumbles27 wrote:
> > to all
> >
> > i see this has been coverd here but if you'd be so kind, i have a fwew more
> > questions about it.
> >
> > My machine is a HP Compaq Notebook NX7010 running XP Pro with new 3 month
> > old Hitachi 160Gb HDD.
> >
> > the boot has failed with the above error on start up after set up screen. I
> > have run the Hitachi Disk tool which tells me that the drive is fine. Also i
> > know this as i have taken the drive out and exteranlly attached it to another
> > machine and i can get most of the files off [except those under my login
> > username dir.. please see further down].
> >
> > my questions are:
> >
> > if i run FIXMBR, will it overwrite any dat on the drive? do i have a choice
> > in the matter?
> >
> > will FIXBOOT do the same?
> >
> > which if these 2 should i run first? and what is the difference between the 2?
> >
> > lastly, if i do need to format and star tagain as i really really want to
> > avoid this as i have just completed it migrating everything from the machines
> > original disc to this one, how do i copy information from this HDD when it is
> > afixed as an external drive on another machine from dirs that have been
> > created under users names and these dirs have no access to them except for
> > that user when he/she is logged on? [sorry i dont know the specific
> > terminology of this locked dirs].
> >
> > this is all information i have learnt while researching my problem so if
> > anyone has any great hints or tips to try or that i have missed please feel
> > free to enlighten me..
>
> There is no point in doing all this with your hard drive. If the Hitachi
> drive utility tells you that the drive is good - and you did a thorough
> test, not just a 90-second test - then the problem is on the
> motherboard. Contact HP tech support for repair/replacement since this
> is a notebook computer.
>
> Pull your hard drive out as you did before you send the machine back to
> them (if you have to do this). You can access your documents from a
> different computer with a working install of XP or Vista by taking
> ownership of the files.
>
> Take Ownership of a File or Folder in Windows XP [Q308421] -
> http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=308421
> How Do I Get the Security tab in Folder Properties? -
> http://www.dougknox.com/xp/tips/xp_security_tab.htm
>
>
> Malke
> --
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic!"
> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>

mumbles27 wrote:
> Thank you Malke,
>
>
> you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
>
> and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking ownership",
> would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they are
> the user profile dir? how would i do that?

No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
have your data backed up first.

Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
"disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
be wrong.

As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
before all this happened.

Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:

a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
dialog box.


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

thank you again Malke..

taking your points in order:

the HP forum arent too bad, HP tech support are terrible so i wontgo near
them. Nothing on the HP forums on this.

I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the DOS
commands.

the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.

the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
[the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk error
occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".

these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user profile
creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless you
specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
machine if you have multi users on one machine. When you plug that drive in
to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it looks
at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?. Does that
make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on this
drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst files
which is why i need access to it.

"Malke" wrote:

> mumbles27 wrote:
> > Thank you Malke,
> >
> >
> > you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
> >
> > and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking ownership",
> > would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they are
> > the user profile dir? how would i do that?
>
> No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
> solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
> easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
> issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
> have your data backed up first.
>
> Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
> first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
> know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
> got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
> "disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
> system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
> be wrong.
>
> As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
> when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
> don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
> which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
> you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
> encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
> them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
> before all this happened.
>
> Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
> in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:
>
> a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
> b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
> c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
> d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
> dialog box.
>
>
> Malke
> --
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic!"
> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>

thank you again Malke..

taking your points in order:

the HP forum arent too bad, HP tech support are terrible so i wontgo near
them. Nothing on the HP forums on this.

I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the DOS
commands.

the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.

the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
[the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk error
occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".

these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user profile
creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless you
specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
machine if you have multi users on one machine. When you plug that drive in
to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it looks
at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?. Does that
make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on this
drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst files
which is why i need access to it.

"Malke" wrote:

> mumbles27 wrote:
> > Thank you Malke,
> >
> >
> > you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
> >
> > and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking ownership",
> > would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they are
> > the user profile dir? how would i do that?
>
> No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
> solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
> easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
> issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
> have your data backed up first.
>
> Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
> first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
> know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
> got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
> "disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
> system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
> be wrong.
>
> As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
> when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
> don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
> which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
> you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
> encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
> them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
> before all this happened.
>
> Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
> in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:
>
> a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
> b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
> c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
> d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
> dialog box.
>
>
> Malke
> --
> Elephant Boy Computers
> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> "Don't Panic!"
> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>

mumbles27 wrote:

Comments inline:

> I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
> files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the DOS
> commands.

Good, then you don't have to worry.

>
> the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.

The age of the hard drive is irrelevant. Hardware will usually fail
either quite soon or go for years. One of the computer science kids at
my son's school (Carnegie Mellon) calls it the "bathtub" curve. The
laptop isn't terribly old, but the motherboard could certainly be going.
It would be sad but not unusual.

> the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
> the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
> [the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
> screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk error
> occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".

OK, this sounds to me that the error occurs before the operating system
is booted. This means that either the hard drive can't be read (fault
lying with the hard drive) or that the drive controller on the
motherboard isn't working properly because it can't read/find the hard
drive, or even both. It could also be that the power supply isn't
providing enough "juice" to get the hard drive up and spinning. The
bottom line is that this is hardware and since you have a laptop, you
can't swap out parts (except for the hard drive and RAM) to test. You're
stuck dealing with HP or a local professional who can do hardware
testing for you. Again, please understand that you shouldn't take my
"diagnosis" as definitive since I can't see your machine or test it
myself. But that's my opinion from what you're describing.

> these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
> what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user profile
> creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless you
> specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
> folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
> machine if you have multi users on one machine. When you plug that drive in
> to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it looks
> at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?. Does that
> make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
> with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on this
> drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst files
> which is why i need access to it.

No, I can't say as the above makes any sense to me. You should be able
to get that data from another machine UNLESS the hard drive is
physically damaged where those files are. The whole point of taking
ownership is that you don't need to be the user who created the files on
the target drive. You change the ownership of those files to a user with
administrative privileges on the host machine and that causes this user
to now own the files. The only other exception I can think of is if you
encrypted those files with third-party software such as TrueCrypt or the
like. You would know if you did this. If you did, then you need to
contact the tech support people of that third-party software for help.

Another way of retrieving data on a hard drive is to boot into a live CD
rescue system such as Knoppix or a Bart's PE. I'll give you the basic
instructions for using Knoppix, but if you did use third-party
encryption that's probably not going to help.

You will need a computer with two cd drives, one of which is a cd/dvd-rw
OR a usb thumb drive with enough capacity to hold your data OR an
external usb/firewire hard drive formatted FAT32 (not NTFS). To get
Knoppix, you need a computer with a fast Internet connection and
third-party burning software. Download the Knoppix .iso and create your
bootable cd. Then boot with it and it will be able to see the Windows
files. If you are using the usb thumb drive or the external hard drive,
right-click on its icon (on the Desktop) to get its properties and
uncheck the box that says "Read Only". Then click on it to open it. Note
that the default mouse action in the window manager used by Knoppix
(KDE) is a single click to open instead of the traditional MS Windows'
double-click. Otherwise, use the K3b burning program to burn the files
to cd/dvd-r's.

http://www.knoppix.net
http://www.nu2.nu/pebuilder/ - Bart's PE Builder


Malke
--
Elephant Boy Computers
www.elephantboycomputers.com
"Don't Panic!"
MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User

"mumbles27" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:A98DEBA8-B7C1-4EB6-B89A-(E-Mail Removed)...
> thank you again Malke..
>
> taking your points in order:
>
> the HP forum arent too bad, HP tech support are terrible so i wontgo near
> them. Nothing on the HP forums on this.
>
> I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
> files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the
> DOS
> commands.
>
> the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.
>
> the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
> the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
> [the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
> screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk
> error
> occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".
>
> these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
> what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user
> profile
> creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless
> you
> specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
> folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
> machine if you have multi users on one machine.

This is normally a simple permissions issue, dealt with by Taking Ownership.
And it doesn't matter if you have multiple users, the question is NTFS or
FAT.

One of the ways to deal with this without altering the drive is to take an
image of the drive, for example with teh Acronis TrueImage trial, then
mounting the image and taking ownership.

> When you plug that drive in
> to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it
> looks
> at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?.

No, this is not what happens. At most, you have to Take Ownership of the
files.

However, there is one context where you *must* log on, and that's if you
have XP Pro and have invoked encryption. If that's the case, the data is
not accessible outside the account unless the account credentials are
imported.


> Does that
> make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
> with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on
> this
> drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst
> files
> which is why i need access to it.

Unless you encrypted them, accessing them should be easy. Google Take
Ownership XP, get a USB2 drive case for the laptop drive, and connect the
drive to another XP system. You'll be done in no time.

HTH
-pk


>
> "Malke" wrote:
>
>> mumbles27 wrote:
>> > Thank you Malke,
>> >
>> >
>> > you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
>> >
>> > and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking
>> > ownership",
>> > would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they
>> > are
>> > the user profile dir? how would i do that?
>>
>> No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
>> solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
>> easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
>> issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
>> have your data backed up first.
>>
>> Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
>> first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
>> know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
>> got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
>> "disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
>> system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
>> be wrong.
>>
>> As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
>> when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
>> don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
>> which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
>> you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
>> encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
>> them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
>> before all this happened.
>>
>> Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
>> in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:
>>
>> a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
>> b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
>> c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
>> d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
>> dialog box.
>>
>>
>> Malke
>> --
>> Elephant Boy Computers
>> www.elephantboycomputers.com
>> "Don't Panic!"
>> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
>>

than kyou all again for your help here..

further info from last nights efforts:

as discussed FIXBOOT and FIXMBR didnt do a lot, as you all said.

i managed to take ownership of the files i need thank you. I didnt know you
could do that.

the drive, i took out the problem drive and put in my old drive that i had
replaced and that drive worls and boots up fine. Should that have happened?
as i understand it, the boot is on the drive and drive specific so this
should have happended should it not? And/Or does this indicate that the
motherboard is ok or that the motherboard cannot take the new bigger drive?
or neither?

Should i still get a diagnostics check from HP? i assume that if i format
the drive [again my last last option] and reinstall everything, whatever has
happended here could happen again


Andi

"Patrick Keenan" wrote:

> "mumbles27" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:A98DEBA8-B7C1-4EB6-B89A-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > thank you again Malke..
> >
> > taking your points in order:
> >
> > the HP forum arent too bad, HP tech support are terrible so i wontgo near
> > them. Nothing on the HP forums on this.
> >
> > I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
> > files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the
> > DOS
> > commands.
> >
> > the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.
> >
> > the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
> > the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
> > [the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
> > screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk
> > error
> > occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".
> >
> > these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
> > what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user
> > profile
> > creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless
> > you
> > specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
> > folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
> > machine if you have multi users on one machine.
>
> This is normally a simple permissions issue, dealt with by Taking Ownership.
> And it doesn't matter if you have multiple users, the question is NTFS or
> FAT.
>
> One of the ways to deal with this without altering the drive is to take an
> image of the drive, for example with teh Acronis TrueImage trial, then
> mounting the image and taking ownership.
>
> > When you plug that drive in
> > to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it
> > looks
> > at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?.
>
> No, this is not what happens. At most, you have to Take Ownership of the
> files.
>
> However, there is one context where you *must* log on, and that's if you
> have XP Pro and have invoked encryption. If that's the case, the data is
> not accessible outside the account unless the account credentials are
> imported.
>
>
> > Does that
> > make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
> > with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on
> > this
> > drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst
> > files
> > which is why i need access to it.
>
> Unless you encrypted them, accessing them should be easy. Google Take
> Ownership XP, get a USB2 drive case for the laptop drive, and connect the
> drive to another XP system. You'll be done in no time.
>
> HTH
> -pk
>
>
> >
> > "Malke" wrote:
> >
> >> mumbles27 wrote:
> >> > Thank you Malke,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
> >> >
> >> > and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking
> >> > ownership",
> >> > would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they
> >> > are
> >> > the user profile dir? how would i do that?
> >>
> >> No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
> >> solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
> >> easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
> >> issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
> >> have your data backed up first.
> >>
> >> Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
> >> first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
> >> know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
> >> got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
> >> "disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
> >> system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
> >> be wrong.
> >>
> >> As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
> >> when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
> >> don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
> >> which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
> >> you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
> >> encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
> >> them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
> >> before all this happened.
> >>
> >> Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
> >> in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:
> >>
> >> a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
> >> b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
> >> c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
> >> d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
> >> dialog box.
> >>
> >>
> >> Malke
> >> --
> >> Elephant Boy Computers
> >> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> >> "Don't Panic!"
> >> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
> >>
>
>
>

thank you all again for your help here..

further info from last nights efforts:

as discussed FIXBOOT and FIXMBR didnt do a lot, as you all said.

i managed to take ownership of the files i need thank you. I didnt know you
could do that.

the drive, i took out the problem drive and put in my old drive that i had
replaced and that drive worls and boots up fine. Should that have happened?
as i understand it, the boot is on the drive and drive specific so this
should have happended should it not? And/Or does this indicate that the
motherboard is ok or that the motherboard cannot take the new bigger drive?
or neither?

Should i still get a diagnostics check from HP? i assume that if i format
the drive [again my last last option] and reinstall everything, whatever has
happended here could happen again


Andi

"Patrick Keenan" wrote:

> "mumbles27" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:A98DEBA8-B7C1-4EB6-B89A-(E-Mail Removed)...
> > thank you again Malke..
> >
> > taking your points in order:
> >
> > the HP forum arent too bad, HP tech support are terrible so i wontgo near
> > them. Nothing on the HP forums on this.
> >
> > I have ll data from this drive backed up apart from these hidden/locked
> > files [see explanation later], thats my overriding worry before i try the
> > DOS
> > commands.
> >
> > the machine is 3 years old, but hard drive is 3 months old.
> >
> > the exact text of the error is, that when the machine boots up, just after
> > the HP logo screen and the screen where you can press f10 to access setup
> > [the boot screen i assume?] and before it flicks on to the XP pr loading
> > screen with the XP logo, a line of text comes up and simply says "disk
> > error
> > occurred/press ctrl alt del to restart".
> >
> > these "locked files" are not the hidden files or system files. i dont know
> > what to call them but when you create a user profile in XP, that user
> > profile
> > creates a folder of that username under "documents and settings". Unless
> > you
> > specifically change the settings of this folder, to which i havent, this
> > folder and its subsequent files are not accessable to thjer users of the
> > machine if you have multi users on one machine.
>
> This is normally a simple permissions issue, dealt with by Taking Ownership.
> And it doesn't matter if you have multiple users, the question is NTFS or
> FAT.
>
> One of the ways to deal with this without altering the drive is to take an
> image of the drive, for example with teh Acronis TrueImage trial, then
> mounting the image and taking ownership.
>
> > When you plug that drive in
> > to another machine as a hard drive it wont read that dir as i assume it
> > looks
> > at the user and login and sees its not the same user or machine?.
>
> No, this is not what happens. At most, you have to Take Ownership of the
> files.
>
> However, there is one context where you *must* log on, and that's if you
> have XP Pro and have invoked encryption. If that's the case, the data is
> not accessible outside the account unless the account credentials are
> imported.
>
>
> > Does that
> > make sense? i generally unlock this locked dir as i have had major problem
> > with it before but as i have just completed reinstalling everything on
> > this
> > drive, i hadnt got around to it. It holds my 5 substancial outlook pst
> > files
> > which is why i need access to it.
>
> Unless you encrypted them, accessing them should be easy. Google Take
> Ownership XP, get a USB2 drive case for the laptop drive, and connect the
> drive to another XP system. You'll be done in no time.
>
> HTH
> -pk
>
>
> >
> > "Malke" wrote:
> >
> >> mumbles27 wrote:
> >> > Thank you Malke,
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > you dont think FIXBOOT or FIXMBR would do any good?
> >> >
> >> > and with regard to getting hold of the files i need, "taking
> >> > ownership",
> >> > would that solve this problem i have of the files being hidden as they
> >> > are
> >> > the user profile dir? how would i do that?
> >>
> >> No I don't think running software commands on your hard drive would
> >> solve the problem but certainly you can try it. It would be quicker and
> >> easier than dealing with HP tech support and would rule out hardware
> >> issues. You should not lose data but naturally it would be stupid not to
> >> have your data backed up first.
> >>
> >> Of course my opinion is based on the information you gave me in your
> >> first post. You didn't quote the exact text of the error message and I
> >> know nothing about the recent history of the machine, its age, etc. I
> >> got the impression that the hard drive had a problem since you mentioned
> >> "disk error" and not something about not being able to find an operating
> >> system. Since I can't see your computer, my impression could certainly
> >> be wrong.
> >>
> >> As for taking ownership of the files, you are not making yourself clear
> >> when you say "files being hidden as they are the user profile dir". I
> >> don't know what that means. If you set the host computer (the one to
> >> which you've attached your laptop hard drive) to see all hidden files,
> >> you should have no problem taking ownership of the files. If you used
> >> encryption (EFS), you will still be able to see the files and transfer
> >> them but you should have backed up your encryption key to removal media
> >> before all this happened.
> >>
> >> Make sure you are able to see all hidden files and extensions (View tab
> >> in Folder Options). In XP, there are four checkboxes to deal with:
> >>
> >> a. Check "Display the contents of system folders".
> >> b. Check "Show hidden files and folders".
> >> c. Uncheck "Hide extensions for known file types".
> >> d. Uncheck "Hide protected operating system files" and click "OK" to the
> >> dialog box.
> >>
> >>
> >> Malke
> >> --
> >> Elephant Boy Computers
> >> www.elephantboycomputers.com
> >> "Don't Panic!"
> >> MS-MVP Windows - Shell/User
> >>
>
>
>