Hi Folks,

We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a heat
issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:

- XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby so
I don't need them anyway)
- it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
- the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you read
the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125

I'll quote the important section of that article:

"An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is upgraded
or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is created,
and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."

So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on a
newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy my
XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking the
specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How do
I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?

Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!

--
Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
www.perlprogrammer.net

If the MB doesn't work correctly, and will not accept the drivers needed to
make it correct, then the MB is defective. There is no differentiation in
the link you provided between "damaged" and "defective," so my HAWO would be
that you are within the limits of the license to replace the MB with one
that works, but only with the same make and model as the one being replaced.

That being said, I had upgraded a defective MB in the past and, after a
phone call to MS, was granted an activation code, even though I was 100%
honest with them about what I was doing. The difference may be that I don't
believe it was an OEM CD; I think it was an upgrade CD I had used to upgrade
from ME to XP.

SC Tom

"kencl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsE73309D-1D54-49D0-91D9-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Folks,
>
> We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
> the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
> with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
> system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
> drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a
> heat
> issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
> considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:
>
> - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby
> so
> I don't need them anyway)
> - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you
> read
> the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
> new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> upgraded
> or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is
> created,
> and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
> replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
> operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement
> must
> be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
> equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."
>
> So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
> Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on
> a
> newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy
> my
> XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
> with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking
> the
> specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How
> do
> I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?
>
> Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!
>
> --
> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
> www.perlprogrammer.net

kencl wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install
> disk and the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and
> authenticated, with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components
> eg PSU). Well, the system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes
> terminate for no reason, some drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI
> bridge). I've ensured it's not a heat issue etc. I want to replace
> the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is considered installing XP
> on a "new computer".

That is a common misperception. It's still the same computer.

> Here are the issues:
>
> - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a
> hobby so I don't need them anyway)

I take it we're talking about a generic OEM CD. Correct?

> - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when
> you read the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to
> create a new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating
> system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the
> motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect
> then a new computer is created, and a new operating system license is
> required. If the motherboard is replaced because of a defect, the
> user does not need to acquire a new operating system license for the
> computer. The motherboard replacement must be the same make and
> model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or equivalent, as
> defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."

Very interesting. And it even looks official (since it's from the
Microsoft site!). But your only concern is with the language contained
within the *EULA itself*. Since the EULA does not specify that changing
the motherboard creates a new computer, your license will still be
valid. Period.

> So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the
> damage.
> Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD
> again on a newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge
> effectively destroy my XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second
> hand Intel socket 478 board with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI
> 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking the specs and reviews for the Intel
> D865GLC, but that's another topic . How do I obtain permission
> from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?

The EULA is all the permission you need. As long as you don't install XP
(using that Product Key) onto another computer, you're fine. That's the
agreement.

> Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!

I'll bet the automatic Internet activation will work just fine, provided
the last time XP was installed on that PC was more than 120 days ago.
Worst case scenario: five minute phone call.

Good luck. :-)

Read the last part: "The motherboard replacement must
be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."

So the key here is the MSI KT880 must be replaced by what
MSI considers to be a replacement or equivalent.

--
JS
http://www.pagestart.com


"kencl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsE73309D-1D54-49D0-91D9-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Folks,
>
> We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
> the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
> with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
> system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
> drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a
> heat
> issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
> considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:
>
> - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby
> so
> I don't need them anyway)
> - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you
> read
> the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
> new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> upgraded
> or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is
> created,
> and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
> replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
> operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement
> must
> be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
> equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."
>
> So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
> Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on
> a
> newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy
> my
> XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
> with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking
> the
> specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How
> do
> I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?
>
> Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!
>
> --
> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
> www.perlprogrammer.net

If your OEM copy of win is locked to origonal mobo, you would need to obtain
a compatible replacemet from the PC Maker
"kencl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsE73309D-1D54-49D0-91D9-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Folks,
>
> We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
> the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
> with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
> system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
> drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a
> heat
> issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
> considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:
>
> - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby
> so
> I don't need them anyway)
> - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you
> read
> the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
> new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> upgraded
> or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is
> created,
> and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
> replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
> operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement
> must
> be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
> equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."
>
> So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
> Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on
> a
> newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy
> my
> XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
> with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking
> the
> specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How
> do
> I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?
>
> Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!
>
> --
> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
> www.perlprogrammer.net

On Apr 27, 6:24*pm, "Daave" <dcwashNOS...@myrealboxXYZ.invalid> wrote:
> kencl wrote:
> > Hi Folks,
>
> > We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> > Harddrive totally dead. *Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install
> > disk and the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and
> > authenticated, with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components
> > eg PSU). *Well, the system is unstable. *It's flakey. *Processes
> > terminate for no reason, some drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI
> > bridge). *I've ensured it's not a heat issue etc. *I want to replace
> > the motherboard and CPU. *This, however, is considered installing XP
> > on a "new computer".
>
> That is a common misperception. It's still the same computer.
>
> > Here are the issues:
>
> > - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a
> > hobby so I don't need them anyway)
>
> I take it we're talking about a generic OEM CD. Correct?
>
>
>
> > - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> > - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when
> > you read the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> >http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> > I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> > "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to
> > create a new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating
> > system software cannot be transferred from another computer. If the
> > motherboard is upgraded or replaced for reasons other than a defect
> > then a new computer is created, and a new operating system license is
> > required. If the motherboard is replaced because of a defect, the
> > user does not need to acquire a new operating system license for the
> > computer. The motherboard replacement must be the same make and
> > model, or the same manufacturer’s replacement or equivalent, as
> > defined by that manufacturer’s warranty."
>
> Very interesting. And it even looks official (since it's from the
> Microsoft site!). But your only concern is with the language contained
> within the *EULA itself*. Since the EULA does not specify that changing
> the motherboard creates a new computer, your license will still be
> valid. Period.
>
> > So, what do I do? *The current system is unusable because of the
> > damage.
> > Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD
> > again on a newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge
> > effectively destroy my XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second
> > hand Intel socket 478 board with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI
> > 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking the specs and reviews for the Intel
> > D865GLC, but that's another topic . *How do I obtain permission
> > from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?
>
> The EULA is all the permission you need. As long as you don't install XP
> (using that Product Key) onto another computer, you're fine. That's the
> agreement.
>
> > Your thoughts are appreciated. *Wish me luck!
>
> I'll bet the automatic Internet activation will work just fine, provided
> the last time XP was installed on that PC was more than 120 days ago.
> Worst case scenario: five minute phone call.
>
> Good luck. :-)

This still needs more clarification. Nowhere in the ELUA for the OEM
version has clearly stated what qualifies as a "new PC." It has been
generally accepted that most PCs are considered to be based off the
motherboard. Microsoft's own Product Activation system looks at
several components on the motherboard in order to build the "product
activation" tokens for the "activation" process.

"kencl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
newsE73309D-1D54-49D0-91D9-(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi Folks,
>
> We inherited a pc system that had been knocked out by a power surge.
> Harddrive totally dead. Included was the OEM XP Home SP2 install disk and
> the COA, so I managed to get the system up and running, and authenticated,
> with a new harddrive (plus a few other new components eg PSU). Well, the
> system is unstable. It's flakey. Processes terminate for no reason, some
> drivers won't install (eg AGP to PCI bridge). I've ensured it's not a
> heat
> issue etc. I want to replace the motherboard and CPU. This, however, is
> considered installing XP on a "new computer". Here are the issues:
>
> - XP CD is OEM but the OEM is out of business (I assemble PC's as a hobby
> so
> I don't need them anyway)
> - it's an old mobo (MSI KT880 Delta with an 1.25 GHz AMD CPU)
> - the mobo is damaged, not defective, which makes a difference when you
> read
> the conditions at the bottom of this KB article:
> http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx/kb/824125
>
> I'll quote the important section of that article:
>
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
> new personal computer. Therefore, Microsoft OEM operating system software
> cannot be transferred from another computer. If the motherboard is
> upgraded
> or replaced for reasons other than a defect then a new computer is
> created,
> and a new operating system license is required. If the motherboard is
> replaced because of a defect, the user does not need to acquire a new
> operating system license for the computer. The motherboard replacement
> must
> be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
> equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."
>
> So, what do I do? The current system is unusable because of the damage.
> Can I get permission from Microsoft to use the XP installation CD again on
> a
> newer, more powerful mobo/cpu, or did that power surge effectively destroy
> my
> XP license as well? (I'd like to grab a second hand Intel socket 478 board
> with around a 2.8 GHz CPU, maybe an MSI 865 PE Neo2 or I'm kinda liking
> the
> specs and reviews for the Intel D865GLC, but that's another topic . How
> do
> I obtain permission from Microsoft, or at least attempt to obtain it?
>
> Your thoughts are appreciated. Wish me luck!
>
> --
> Contract Web Programmer / E-commerce Technologist
> www.perlprogrammer.net

First, if electrical events fried the hard disk, it's quite possible for the
motherboard (including components such as CPU and memory) and power supply
to be damaged as well. And, it can be hard to tell what *isn't* damaged.

You'd have to hire contract lawyers for a legal opinion on the true meaning
of the terms of the EULA and how your local laws affect it, but doing that
would probably cost you more than a complete new PC.

In *technical* terms, however, unless the XP install CD is of an OEM type
that looks for a specific BIOS signature (i.e., it's a Dell), and if you
have the install CD and a COA that matches it, you will not likely be
prevented from installing or activating or passing WGA.

In the event that online activation fails and you had to actually phone in
for activation, which would really only be needed if you had activated just
prior to the electrical event, you only have to say that you had to
re-install, and that the install is to one PC. That's the extent of the
skill-testing questions.

So there are two aspects here, one legal, which may be unclear or
inapplicable or voided; and one technical, which is very likely to work By
'work', I mean that you will be able to successfully install, activate
online or by phone, and pass WGA tests.

To further muddy the legal situation, successfully activating and passing
WGA may (or may not) indicate acceptance of the new configuration by MS.

You don't need to obtain permission in advance, and I'm not sure you can.
In the very worst case, you will go to the store and buy another XP license
and enter the new key if activation fails.

You can, if you wish, reinstall with the new license to make sure the key is
accepted properly. That would only be necessary if you shifted from an OEM
to a Retail license.

This kind of question, however, is a reason why home builders may not always
save money in the long run with OEM licenses. A Retail version, even an
Upgrade, does not have this kind of limitation.

However, as cost-justification information, I will mention that it's very
possible to purchase used name brand (I've been purchasing them as HPs) 3gHz
P4 systems, with XP Pro licenses and a gig or two of RAM and 40 to 80 gig
SATA drives, in really pretty good condition, for under CDN$200 (no
keyboard, mouse, or monitor). How much will the motherboard cost you, and
have you kept in mind that the power suppy and memory may be damaged and
require replacement, too?

In other words, you may be much farther ahead to scrap that system and
replace it with a used, superior system, for a few dollars more than the
parts to fix and old and inadequate system.

HTH
-pk

In article <DE73309D-1D54-49D0-91D9-(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
> "An upgrade or a replacement of the motherboard is considered to create a
> new personal computer.
>

Any "Motherboard" change because of a FAILED MOTHERBOARD is completely
permitted for OEM. If you were just "Upgrading" the motherboard then it
was not permitted.

In this case, you can REPAIR the computer by REPLACING A DEFECTIVE
motherboard, and as long as the OEM install CD is not BIOS locked, you
might have to do a Phone Activation at the worst.


--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)

In article <bfa97bbb-1e32-458e-a6c9-
(E-Mail Removed)>, (E-Mail Removed) says...
> This still needs more clarification. Nowhere in the ELUA for the OEM
> version has clearly stated what qualifies as a "new PC." It has been
> generally accepted that most PCs are considered to be based off the
> motherboard. Microsoft's own Product Activation system looks at
> several components on the motherboard in order to build the "product
> activation" tokens for the "activation" process.
>

On the OEM system builders site, for as long as one could access it,
OEM's can replace the motherboard because of failure, and still activate
and maintain their licensing. Key word is failure.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)

In article <(E-Mail Removed)>, "JS" <@> says...
> Read the last part: "The motherboard replacement must
> be the same make and model, or the same manufacturer's replacement or
> equivalent, as defined by that manufacturer's warranty."
>
> So the key here is the MSI KT880 must be replaced by what
> MSI considers to be a replacement or equivalent.
>

No, it does not, it can be ANY motherboard as long as it's to replace a
defective one. When the same board is no longer available it can be ANY
board.

--
- Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum.
- Calling an illegal alien an "undocumented worker" is like calling a
drug dealer an "unlicensed pharmacist"
(E-Mail Removed) (remove 999 for proper email address)