Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark I
downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have designed.
Yuck.

What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
browser?

jeb

noticed the same thing when testing some .css stuff. I think they have a
newsgroup and some kind of an anomaly list. you should check their site.
don't forget the mozilla firebird.
http://www.mozilla.org/products/firebird/
it's a little closer to rendering like internet explorer. it's not a bad
browser and there are some cool plug-ins for it if you're into .css and
whatnot.

<John Brandt> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark I
> downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have designed.
> Yuck.
>
> What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> browser?
>
> jeb

<John Brandt> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...

<snip>
| What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for
this
| browser?
</snip>

In some cases Opera displays a page correctly when IE doesn't,
even though IE's version looks better!

It's not really a "workaround", just make sure that your html and
css validate. That will eliminate quite a few cross-browser
compatibility problems. You can validate your pages at W3C's
site:

HTML Validator
http://validator.w3.org/

CSS Validator
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/

Also, if you'd like to see what your site looks like on Apple's
Safari browser on an Apple iMac check out iCapture at
http://www.danvine.com/icapture/ (it's free).

hth
--
Chet
(E-Mail Removed) (remove NO.....SPAM)

Hi John,

Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less than 2%
--
Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
http://www.websunlimited.com
Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible


<John Brandt> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark I
> downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have designed.
> Yuck.
>
> What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> browser?
>
> jeb

That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.

The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
(e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
be able to use your site at all.

The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of years
ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours to
make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.


"MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> Hi John,
>
> Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
than 2%
> --
> Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> http://www.websunlimited.com
> Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
>
http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
>
>
> <John Brandt> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark
I
> > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
designed.
> > Yuck.
> >
> > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> > browser?
> >
> > jeb
>
>

I found a nice way to make it so the "warning" is displayed to "old"
browsers and not to new.
the trick is to use an @ import rule to keep nn 4.x from seeing it.
then at the foot of each page <span class="warning">Notice! you're seeing
an unformatted version of this site........blah, blah, blah</span>
then on the style sheet i just have the span class "warning" set as display
none.
works like a charm and no need for detection scripts or any of that.

"David Baxter" <spam-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
> Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
> sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
> sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.
>
> The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
> my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
> (e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
> because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
> be able to use your site at all.
>
> The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of years
> ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours to
> make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
> worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
> says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
> as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
> usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.
>
>
> "MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
> than 2%
> > --
> > Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> > http://www.websunlimited.com
> > Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
> >
> http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> > FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
> >
> >
> > <John Brandt> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark
> I
> > > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
> designed.
> > > Yuck.
> > >
> > > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> > > browser?
> > >
> > > jeb
> >
> >
>
>

David,

I've been promoting this position for some time now especially with regard
to NS 4.x. Major website, www.espn.com , are also adopting this philosophy.

--
Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
http://www.websunlimited.com
Try RunASP - Run ASP pages without a web server.
http://www.websunlimited.com/order/p...asp/runasp.htm
FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible


"David Baxter" <spam-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
> Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
> sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
> sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.
>
> The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
> my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
> (e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
> because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
> be able to use your site at all.
>
> The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of years
> ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours to
> make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
> worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
> says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
> as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
> usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.
>
>
> "MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Hi John,
> >
> > Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
> than 2%
> > --
> > Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> > http://www.websunlimited.com
> > Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
> >
> http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> > FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
> >
> >
> > <John Brandt> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark
> I
> > > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
> designed.
> > > Yuck.
> > >
> > > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> > > browser?
> > >
> > > jeb
> >
> >
>
>

Chris,

I don't understand what your doing here. Can you provide an example?

--
Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
http://www.websunlimited.com
Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible


"chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> I found a nice way to make it so the "warning" is displayed to "old"
> browsers and not to new.
> the trick is to use an @ import rule to keep nn 4.x from seeing it.
> then at the foot of each page <span class="warning">Notice! you're seeing
> an unformatted version of this site........blah, blah, blah</span>
> then on the style sheet i just have the span class "warning" set as
display
> none.
> works like a charm and no need for detection scripts or any of that.
>
> "David Baxter" <spam-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
> > Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
> > sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
> > sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.
> >
> > The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
> > my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
> > (e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
> > because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
> > be able to use your site at all.
> >
> > The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of years
> > ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours to
> > make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
> > worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
> > says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
> > as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
> > usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.
> >
> >
> > "MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
> > than 2%
> > > --
> > > Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> > > http://www.websunlimited.com
> > > Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
> > >
> > http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> > > FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
> > >
> > >
> > > <John Brandt> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark
> > I
> > > > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
> > designed.
> > > > Yuck.
> > > >
> > > > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> > > > browser?
> > > >
> > > > jeb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Absolutely!
I'm glad someone with the experience you've got would be interested in my
"stupid trick".
basically what I've done is put a line on every page that, if the style
sheet is loaded, gets the display property of "none", not hidden (taking up
space).
then instead of a "regular" style sheet link I'm linking in a way that old
browsers can't comprehend and therefore don't load the sheet thereby
exposing my not usually displayed warning.
you can look at my source here: http://nedp.net where you'll see the style
sheet link and you can download the style sheet to see it how the span
..warning is written.

"MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> Chris,
>
> I don't understand what your doing here. Can you provide an example?
>
> --
> Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> http://www.websunlimited.com
> Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
> http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
>
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I found a nice way to make it so the "warning" is displayed to "old"
> > browsers and not to new.
> > the trick is to use an @ import rule to keep nn 4.x from seeing it.
> > then at the foot of each page <span class="warning">Notice! you're
seeing
> > an unformatted version of this site........blah, blah, blah</span>
> > then on the style sheet i just have the span class "warning" set as
> display
> > none.
> > works like a charm and no need for detection scripts or any of that.
> >
> > "David Baxter" <spam-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
> > > Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
> > > sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
> > > sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.
> > >
> > > The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
> > > my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
> > > (e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
> > > because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
> > > be able to use your site at all.
> > >
> > > The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of
years
> > > ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours
to
> > > make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
> > > worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
> > > says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
> > > as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
> > > usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.
> > >
> > >
> > > "MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Hi John,
> > > >
> > > > Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
> > > than 2%
> > > > --
> > > > Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> > > > http://www.websunlimited.com
> > > > Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot
controls.
> > > >
> > >
http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> > > > FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <John Brandt> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a
lark
> > > I
> > > > > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
> > > designed.
> > > > > Yuck.
> > > > >
> > > > > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for
this
> > > > > browser?
> > > > >
> > > > > jeb
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I've always wished everyone who made a website would do it with absolute
disregard to "old" browsers. that way the users of these dinosaurs would
finally get new ones. I've always thought when looking at my stuff with nn
4.07 that if it's messed up on my site it's gotta be messed up at other
sites. so I guess I don't look "comparatively" worse than others ;-)

"MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> David,
>
> I've been promoting this position for some time now especially with regard
> to NS 4.x. Major website, www.espn.com , are also adopting this
philosophy.
>
> --
> Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> http://www.websunlimited.com
> Try RunASP - Run ASP pages without a web server.
> http://www.websunlimited.com/order/p...asp/runasp.htm
> FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
>
>
> "David Baxter" <spam-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > That's a good point... in fact, most web stats will tell you that
> > Internet Explorer accounts for at least 90% of visitors, and on many
> > sites it's as high as 95%. That means that ALL other browsers are
> > sharing the remaining 5 - 10%.
> >
> > The decision really depends on who you believe your market is - and in
> > my opinion making sure that other browsers can at least use your site
> > (e.g., don't use navigation scripts that won't work in Netscape 4.x
> > because there are a few people still using that browser who then won't
> > be able to use your site at all.
> >
> > The question really is one of "diminishing returns" - a couple of years
> > ago, I made the decision to stop trying to work all those extra hours to
> > make my site look pretty in NS4.7 (I keep a copy of that around as a
> > worst case scenario). Instead, a put a little notice on each page that
> > says "this page is optimized for Internet Explorer and may not display
> > as intended in other browsers", but then I also make sure the site is
> > usable in NS4.7 - it ain't pretty but it's usable.
> >
> >
> > "MD WebsUnlimited.com" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Hi John,
> > >
> > > Do you really need Opera support? I understand that it is used less
> > than 2%
> > > --
> > > Mike -- FrontPage MVP '97-'02
> > > http://www.websunlimited.com
> > > Need to add Meta Tags to your web pages NOW with Google Bot controls.
> > >
> > http://www.websunlimited.com/order/P...2_help_dir.htm
> > > FrontPage Add-ins Since '97 2003 / 2002 / 2000 Compatible
> > >
> > >
> > > <John Brandt> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Until recently I had not paid much attention to Opera, but on a lark
> > I
> > > > downloaded and took a look at some of the pages that I have
> > designed.
> > > > Yuck.
> > > >
> > > > What's the scoop? Any insights or workarounds for designed for this
> > > > browser?
> > > >
> > > > jeb
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>