On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:16:31 GMT, Gary L. <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 07:22:43 -0500, George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>
>>>As far as I can tell, the Python script has to do with the "Rapid
>>>Restore" utility. Rapid Restore loads as a service by default and that
>>>may run the Python script. You can do a clean install using the OS
>>>packaged with the recovery disks (read the thread on thinkpads.com),
>>>but it is a real PITA. I simply used an OEM XP disk I have from
>>>another system and the product code on the ThinkPad's sticker to get a
>>>clean install.
>>
>>Ah good and thanks for the info - I've wondered if you could do that... use
>>any WinXP install and the code from another disk.
>
>I think it has to be an *OEM* disk to match the OEM activation code on
>the ThinkPad's sticker. Based on what I've read, I believe that you
>can't use a retail version disk with an OEM code and vice-versa, but I
>haven't actually tested this. The pre-load XP that comes with the
>machine uses an activation code in a file on the recovery disk and
>this doesn't require activation at all, but I think that the machine
>type in the BIOS has to match or else the installation is aborted.
>
>Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
>CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
>I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
>packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
>thinkpads.com if you're interested.

Yeah, like everybody else I was ****ed about not getting any install CD
with those Thinkpads. Making the recovery disks, all 6 or so CDs, is a
PITA as well; in fact the earlier ones have no way to make a recovery disk
at all. I keep meaning to use BartPE to make an "installable" CD from the
i386 folder but I'll take a look at thinkpads.com.

--
Rgds, George Macdonald

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 23:13:08 GMT, Gary L. <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:37:01 GMT, "(E-Mail Removed)"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>>>Ah good and thanks for the info - I've wondered if you could do that... use
>>>>any WinXP install and the code from another disk.
>>>
>>>I think it has to be an *OEM* disk to match the OEM activation code on
>>>the ThinkPad's sticker. Based on what I've read, I believe that you
>>>can't use a retail version disk with an OEM code and vice-versa, but I
>>>haven't actually tested this. The pre-load XP that comes with the
>>>machine uses an activation code in a file on the recovery disk and
>>>this doesn't require activation at all, but I think that the machine
>>>type in the BIOS has to match or else the installation is aborted.
>>>
>>>Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
>>>CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
>>>I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
>>>packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
>>>thinkpads.com if you're interested.
>>
>>Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
>>on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy ....
>
>[snip]
>
>I'm not an expert on the Microsoft EULA, but I doubt that using a
>"non-IBM OEM CD" is a violation of the Agreement. The issue is whether
>you have a license for the software that you install. In this case,
>the ThinkPad comes with a license for one copy of XP Pro, and the
>activation code for that license may be found on the sticker on the
>bottom of the computer. The particular install media used (backup copy
>on hard disk, a recovery CD set, or a generic OEM XP Pro CD) is
>irrelevant to the licensing issue. I think you are within your rights
>to use any install media as long as you have a proper license.
>
> I dislike the Microsoft product activation and I am not worried about
>whether the richest man in the world gets even richer. But my
>suggestion was merely an idea of getting a clean install without the
>extra utilities getting installed. It was not a suggestion as to how
>to circumvent Windows licensing and activation.

Same here. AFAIK someplace in EULA in small print you'll find that
you can use this OEM disk only in conjunction with the particular
piece of hardware it was acquired together with (you need to buy a PC
or at least something like a harddrive or a motherboard to be eligible
to buy OEM XP). So in the books of laws you may be in violation. But
IMHO you already paid for Windows when you bought the laptop, so, if
that Windows is screwed up by some 'value added' junkware, you have
every right to make it straight, and you should be free to use any
tool you find convenient, be it OEM disk you've bought with some other
piece of hardware, or a corporate version you've downloaded or
borrowed from work. It's just that to me, corporate version is the
easiest to install.

NNN

"Felger Carbon" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:g06nf.3035$Tg2.2307
@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net:

> "z" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:Xns9729C1A82FE0Dzyadayadayada@216.196.97.131...
>> George Macdonald <fammacd=!SPAM^(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>> news:(E-Mail Removed):
>>
>> > Quoted from PCWorld's latest Reliability & Service survey:
>> > http://www.pcworld.com/reviews/artic...09,pg,1,00.asp.
> I
>> > hadn't realized how far things had gone here: e.g. on its low-end
>> > systems, they have a 90-day warranty and for ~$25. you can get it
>> > extended to 1-year.... is that nuts or what? Makes ya wonder how
> many
>> > bad capacitors it'd take to sink the company; when you stretch the
>> > elastic that far, the snap-back can be vicious.:-)
>> >
>>
>> I just beefed up this old dell optiplex pentium III (450 mhz or
>> something) we've been using as a linux file server in the office.
>>
>> I was amazed how well built it was compared to the new ones they
> sell.
>> The case was heavy, the drive bays were heavy duty and easy to
> access.
>> The CD rom slid in with clips, there was room for 4 HDs (in a
> desktop
>> case). I plugged in a 300 gig drive and the bios didn't have a cow.
>> This old thing has been running 24/7 for 3 or 4 years, and now with
> the
>> extra drives etc I expect it to continue being a very usefull device
> for
>> a long time to come.
>>
>> I'd had to deal with some newer dells and ya .. they suck ass.
>>
>> At one time Dell really did make good stuff though. If I see any of
>> those old PIII optiplexes i'd buy another one in a heart beat.
>
> Why don't you dig up the old invoice or sales slip and let us know how
> much you paid for that 450MHz PIII Dell Optiplex in 2005 dollars.
> Would you be willing to pay that much, today, for a replacement
> computer? You gets what you is willin' to pay for. ;-)

Yes good point. They weren't that cheap. We ususally build our own
machines with quality parts that do cost more than your average DELL.

I think we got this one used in the first place

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:37:01 GMT, "(E-Mail Removed)"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:16:31 GMT, Gary L. <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>Someone on thinkpads.com figured out a way to make a bootable install
>>CD using the pre-load activation code and the install files in the
>>I386 directory, but skipping the installation of the drivers and the
>>packaged utilities (Norton AV, etc.) Take a look at the thread on
>>thinkpads.com if you're interested.
>
>Since, from legal standpoint, using that IBM-specific activation code
>on non-IBM OEM CD is as much a violation as any piracy, it's even

I don't believe that is the case. Microsoft's EULA is, generally
speaking, for the license of Windows, not for the physical media on
which it's obtained. The Certificate of Authenticity (aka Product
Key) is what really matters, not what disk you use to install Windows
with.

As a bit of a side note though, this whole deal with install disks is
one of the things that HPaq did right (for their business systems).
Every Compaq/HP business system I've seen in the past 3-5 years comes
with a bone-stock OEM WinXP disk. The recommended procedure for the
systems is to install using their Restore disk, however if you want a
straight WinXP install with no drivers or bundled software, the
Operating System disk will do the trick for you, no questions asked.

-------------
Tony Hill
hilla <underscore> 20 <at> yahoo <dot> ca

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 15:32:17 GMT, "(E-Mail Removed)"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> While the risk of destruction of the state of Israel is real, it's
>still regarded low enough to justify the fabs, especially with the
>perks and slacks Israeli government cuts to Intel (look much like
>Communism when the decision to build the fab is made by government's
>politically motivated handout, not the free market).

Note that the same government concessions are used pretty much
anywhere that a fab is built.

Intel builds new fabs in Oregon, Arizona, and Ireland, but not in
California, due in part to the willingness of the local governments to
work with them on such things. Considering a fab, once built, will be
in production for a minimum of 10 years and is not easily outsourced
(like software, for instance), it's a pretty good investment in the
state's or nation's economic infrastructure.


--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:32:06 -0500, George Macdonald
<fammacd=!SPAM^(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Yeah, like everybody else I was ****ed about not getting any install CD
>with those Thinkpads. Making the recovery disks, all 6 or so CDs, is a
>PITA as well; in fact the earlier ones have no way to make a recovery disk
>at all. I keep meaning to use BartPE to make an "installable" CD from the
>i386 folder but I'll take a look at thinkpads.com.

My dad's latest Dell didn't come with recovery disks or a way to make
them - it was on a hidden partition, which is not much good if your HD
dies.

I made a True Image (www.acronis.com) copy of the as-delivered setup,
and then again when we got all his software loaded and configured (as
well as automated daily backups). It's hard to beat that for fast
recovery, and it's independent of the vendors.


--
Neil Maxwell - I don't speak for my employer

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 11:18:04 -0800, Neil Maxwell <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 22:32:06 -0500, George Macdonald
><fammacd=!SPAM^(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Yeah, like everybody else I was ****ed about not getting any install CD
>>with those Thinkpads. Making the recovery disks, all 6 or so CDs, is a
>>PITA as well; in fact the earlier ones have no way to make a recovery disk
>>at all. I keep meaning to use BartPE to make an "installable" CD from the
>>i386 folder but I'll take a look at thinkpads.com.
>
>My dad's latest Dell didn't come with recovery disks or a way to make
>them - it was on a hidden partition, which is not much good if your HD
>dies.
>
>I made a True Image (www.acronis.com) copy of the as-delivered setup,
>and then again when we got all his software loaded and configured (as
>well as automated daily backups). It's hard to beat that for fast
>recovery, and it's independent of the vendors.

Yeah that's a good way to handle it too. I've used BootitNG's image copy
feature -- also has a great partition manager which boots off a floppy,
CD-R or thumb drive -- and of course, now with DVD+/-R it's nice that it
fits on a single disk. Maybe I'm old-fashioned but I still also like to
use a "proper" backup program like BackupMyPC for ongoing safety.:-)

--
Rgds, George Macdonald