My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not state which files
can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error checking, both completed
successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors but after checking MS Help and
support they don't seem to be the problem.

Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so badly that they
can't be defragged or a way to force defragmentation of these files.

larryo

How much free space is on your hard drive?

Defrag & Free Space

[[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to completely and
adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file
fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free space, defrag will only
partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a volume, delete
unneeded files or move them to another disk. ]]
Defrag
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx

[[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment volumes that
have less than 15 percent free space, for best results delete unneeded files
or move them to another volume to increase the free space to at least 15
percent. You can also use the Disk Cleanup tool to delete unnecessary
files. For more information about Disk Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional
Help.]]
Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp

[[After you defragment a volume, you can view the defragmentation report to
see the results. The report includes a list of files that remain fragmented
(having two or more fragments). Some reasons that a file might remain
fragmented include:

* The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment all files.
Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk space to completely
defragment a volume.]]
From...
Files That You Cannot Defragment
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not state which
> files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error checking, both
> completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors but after
> checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be the problem.
>
> Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so badly that they
> can't be defragged or a way to force defragmentation of these files.
>
> larryo

Thanks for replying Wesley,

I have more than 60% (over 5 gigs) free space on C:. So I don't believe
that to be the problem. I have tried running the service several times
sequentially to see if perhaps it would do a little more each time. No luck.
It always seems to hit around the 49% defrag mark before it quits and gives
the message that "some files can't be defragged".
I have two hard drives, partitioned into several virtual drives, and use c
only for the operating system (XP pro) and associated files. All other
programs that can be, are put on a seperate drive (f) documents and settings
(d)....etc.
At this time it doesn't seem to be causing a real problem, but I just did a
clean install of the operating system and would like to resolve this issue
before it gets worse.
I reviewed the links you provided but didn't see anything that answers my
questions. (Although I did mark them for future use to learn more about XP.)
Thanks Again
larryo

"Wesley Vogel" wrote:

> How much free space is on your hard drive?
>
> Defrag & Free Space
>
> [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to completely and
> adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a sorting area for file
> fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free space, defrag will only
> partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a volume, delete
> unneeded files or move them to another disk. ]]
> Defrag
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
>
> [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment volumes that
> have less than 15 percent free space, for best results delete unneeded files
> or move them to another volume to increase the free space to at least 15
> percent. You can also use the Disk Cleanup tool to delete unnecessary
> files. For more information about Disk Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional
> Help.]]
> Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
>
> [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the defragmentation report to
> see the results. The report includes a list of files that remain fragmented
> (having two or more fragments). Some reasons that a file might remain
> fragmented include:
>
> * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment all files.
> Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk space to completely
> defragment a volume.]]
> From...
> Files That You Cannot Defragment
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
>
> --
> Hope this helps. Let us know.
>
> Wes
> MS-MVP Windows Shell/User
>
> In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
> larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not state which
> > files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error checking, both
> > completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors but after
> > checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be the problem.
> >
> > Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so badly that they
> > can't be defragged or a way to force defragmentation of these files.
> >
> > larryo
>
>

Wesley,

Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
requirement?
I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many months ago, I
got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to defrag.
I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow since it
apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't remember
how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.

Regards,

Pop`


In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> How much free space is on your hard drive?
>
> Defrag & Free Space
>
> [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to
> completely
> and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a
> sorting
> area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free
> space,
> defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase the free
> space
> on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another
> disk. ]]
> Defrag
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
>
> [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment
> volumes
> that have less than 15 percent free space, for best results
> delete
> unneeded files or move them to another volume to increase the
> free
> space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the Disk
> Cleanup tool
> to delete unnecessary files. For more information about Disk
> Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
> Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
>
> [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
> defragmentation
> report to see the results. The report includes a list of files
> that
> remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some reasons
> that a
> file might remain fragmented include:
>
> * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment
> all
> files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk
> space
> to completely defragment a volume.]]
> From...
> Files That You Cannot Defragment
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
>
>
> In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
> larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not
> > state
> > which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error
> > checking,
> > both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors
> > but
> > after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be the
> > problem.
> >
> > Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so
> > badly
> > that they can't be defragged or a way to force
> > defragmentation of
> > these files.
> >
> > larryo

Pop,

> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
> requirement?

It may be, but I do not use anything Norton/Symantec.

If you notice the addresses for the links I posted say www.microsoft.com not
Norton or Symantec.

Best practices
Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_best_practices.htm

To defragment a volume
Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...

hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_defrag.htm

Click on either [+]

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:(E-Mail Removed),
POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> Wesley,
>
> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
> requirement?
> I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many months ago, I
> got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to defrag.
> I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
> XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow since it
> apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't remember
> how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pop`
>
>
> In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>> How much free space is on your hard drive?
>>
>> Defrag & Free Space
>>
>> [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to
>> completely
>> and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a
>> sorting
>> area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free
>> space,
>> defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase the free
>> space
>> on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another
>> disk. ]]
>> Defrag
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
>>
>> [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially defragment
>> volumes
>> that have less than 15 percent free space, for best results
>> delete
>> unneeded files or move them to another volume to increase the
>> free
>> space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the Disk
>> Cleanup tool
>> to delete unnecessary files. For more information about Disk
>> Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
>> Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
>>
>> [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
>> defragmentation
>> report to see the results. The report includes a list of files
>> that
>> remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some reasons
>> that a
>> file might remain fragmented include:
>>
>> * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to defragment
>> all
>> files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free disk
>> space
>> to completely defragment a volume.]]
>> From...
>> Files That You Cannot Defragment
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
>>
>>
>> In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
>> larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>> My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not
>>> state
>>> which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error
>>> checking,
>>> both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors
>>> but
>>> after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be the
>>> problem.
>>>
>>> Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so
>>> badly
>>> that they can't be defragged or a way to force
>>> defragmentation of
>>> these files.
>>>
>>> larryo

Hi larryo,

In a Dual-boot situation, Defragmenting the Hard Drive is simple and
completely done. All files get defragmented, because none of the files are
in use.

Where you only have one operating system, only on the computer, not all
files can be defragmented, because those files are in use.

http://www.raxco.com/products/perfectdisk2k/

http://www.diskeeper.com/landing/lan...FSRFGgodGnc8Og

Have you tried these?


--
thecreator

"larryo" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed)...
> My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not state which
> files
> can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error checking, both completed
> successfully. Event viewer shows a few errors but after checking MS Help
> and
> support they don't seem to be the problem.
>
> Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up" so badly that they
> can't be defragged or a way to force defragmentation of these files.
>
> larryo

Huh; I guess I stand corrected, in a way: It does say 15%.
That's followed by:
"
If a volume has less than 15% free space, Disk Defragmenter will
only partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a
volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another disk.
"
and I can attest to that being the case after further
cogitation<g>. IIRC I ended up turning off GoBack to get back
the 10% space reserved for it, in order to finish the defrag. It
was going very slowly, and was getting even slower as time went
by. Shortly after that I bought a larger external drive for
storage & shipped a lot of things over to it.

Norton, on the other hand, just simply refuses to defrag if the
space goes below 15% available; guess that's what I was
remembering.

Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.

Pop`



In news:%23vE4L$(E-Mail Removed),
Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> Pop,
>
> > Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
> > requirement?
>
> It may be, but I do not use anything Norton/Symantec.
>
> If you notice the addresses for the links I posted say
> www.microsoft.com not Norton or Symantec.
>
> Best practices
> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>
> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_best_practices.htm
>
> To defragment a volume
> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>
> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_defrag.htm
>
> Click on either [+]
>
>
> In news:(E-Mail Removed),
> POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > Wesley,
> >
> > Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
> > requirement?
> > I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many months
> > ago, I
> > got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to
> > defrag.
> > I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
> > XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow since
> > it
> > apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't
> > remember
> > how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Pop`
> >
> >
> > In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
> > Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> > > How much free space is on your hard drive?
> > >
> > > Defrag & Free Space
> > >
> > > [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to
> > > completely
> > > and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a
> > > sorting
> > > area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free
> > > space,
> > > defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase the
> > > free
> > > space
> > > on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another
> > > disk. ]]
> > > Defrag
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
> > >
> > > [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially
> > > defragment
> > > volumes
> > > that have less than 15 percent free space, for best results
> > > delete
> > > unneeded files or move them to another volume to increase
> > > the
> > > free
> > > space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the Disk
> > > Cleanup tool
> > > to delete unnecessary files. For more information about
> > > Disk
> > > Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
> > > Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
> > >
> > > [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
> > > defragmentation
> > > report to see the results. The report includes a list of
> > > files
> > > that
> > > remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some
> > > reasons
> > > that a
> > > file might remain fragmented include:
> > >
> > > * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to
> > > defragment
> > > all
> > > files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free
> > > disk
> > > space
> > > to completely defragment a volume.]]
> > > From...
> > > Files That You Cannot Defragment
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
> > >
> > >
> > > In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
> > > larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and
> > > pecked:
> > > > My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not
> > > > state
> > > > which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error
> > > > checking,
> > > > both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few
> > > > errors
> > > > but
> > > > after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be
> > > > the
> > > > problem.
> > > >
> > > > Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up"
> > > > so
> > > > badly
> > > > that they can't be defragged or a way to force
> > > > defragmentation of
> > > > these files.
> > > >
> > > > larryo

Whatever defrag program that is used is going to need some amount of free
space. It's what they use to park files when shuffling them around.

Just curious, why use Goback when XP has System Restore?

> Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.

Pop, if one doesn't know the answer, there is no such thing. Not wasting my
time, I have quite a bit of it. ;-)

BTW..
[[Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Microsoft Windows XP, and Microsoft Windows
2000 include a tool for disk defragmentation. The Windows Disk Defragmenter
tool is a limited version of the Diskeeper program from Diskeeper
Corporation. Disk Defragmenter does not include all the features available
in the full version of Diskeeper.]]
http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;130539

Diskeeper Corporation used to be Executive Software International. You just
can't keep up with the names of companies in any industry anymore. I think
that Diskeeper Corp. just changed their name. Everyone else seems to get
bought out.

dfrgfat.exe Disk Defragmenter FAT File System Module ©2001 Microsoft
Corp. and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.

dfrgntfs.exe Disk Defragmenter NTFS Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp. and
Executive Software Int'l, Inc.

dfrgres.dll Disk Defragmenter Resource Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp. and
Executive Software Int'l, Inc.

dfrgsnap.dll Disk Defragmenter Snap-in Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp. and
Executive Software Int'l, Inc.

dfrgui.dll Disk Defragmenter UI Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp. and Executive
Software Int'l, Inc.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:Ojyc5p%(E-Mail Removed),
POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> Huh; I guess I stand corrected, in a way: It does say 15%.
> That's followed by:
> "
> If a volume has less than 15% free space, Disk Defragmenter will
> only partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a
> volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another disk.
> "
> and I can attest to that being the case after further
> cogitation<g>. IIRC I ended up turning off GoBack to get back
> the 10% space reserved for it, in order to finish the defrag. It
> was going very slowly, and was getting even slower as time went
> by. Shortly after that I bought a larger external drive for
> storage & shipped a lot of things over to it.
>
> Norton, on the other hand, just simply refuses to defrag if the
> space goes below 15% available; guess that's what I was
> remembering.
>
> Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.
>
> Pop`
>
>
>
> In news:%23vE4L$(E-Mail Removed),
> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>> Pop,
>>
>>> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
>>> requirement?
>>
>> It may be, but I do not use anything Norton/Symantec.
>>
>> If you notice the addresses for the links I posted say
>> www.microsoft.com not Norton or Symantec.
>>
>> Best practices
>> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>>
>> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_best_practices.htm
>>
>> To defragment a volume
>> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>>
>> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_defrag.htm
>>
>> Click on either [+]
>>
>>
>> In news:(E-Mail Removed),
>> POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>> Wesley,
>>>
>>> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not an XP
>>> requirement?
>>> I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many months
>>> ago, I
>>> got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to
>>> defrag.
>>> I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
>>> XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow since
>>> it
>>> apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't
>>> remember
>>> how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Pop`
>>>
>>>
>>> In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
>>> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>>> How much free space is on your hard drive?
>>>>
>>>> Defrag & Free Space
>>>>
>>>> [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag to
>>>> completely
>>>> and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as a
>>>> sorting
>>>> area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15% free
>>>> space,
>>>> defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase the
>>>> free
>>>> space
>>>> on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another
>>>> disk. ]]
>>>> Defrag
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
>>>>
>>>> [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially
>>>> defragment
>>>> volumes
>>>> that have less than 15 percent free space, for best results
>>>> delete
>>>> unneeded files or move them to another volume to increase
>>>> the
>>>> free
>>>> space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the Disk
>>>> Cleanup tool
>>>> to delete unnecessary files. For more information about
>>>> Disk
>>>> Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
>>>> Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
>>>>
>>>> [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
>>>> defragmentation
>>>> report to see the results. The report includes a list of
>>>> files
>>>> that
>>>> remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some
>>>> reasons
>>>> that a
>>>> file might remain fragmented include:
>>>>
>>>> * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to
>>>> defragment
>>>> all
>>>> files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent free
>>>> disk
>>>> space
>>>> to completely defragment a volume.]]
>>>> From...
>>>> Files That You Cannot Defragment
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
>>>> larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and
>>>> pecked:
>>>>> My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does not
>>>>> state
>>>>> which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and error
>>>>> checking,
>>>>> both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a few
>>>>> errors
>>>>> but
>>>>> after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to be
>>>>> the
>>>>> problem.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a way to determine which files are "messed up"
>>>>> so
>>>>> badly
>>>>> that they can't be defragged or a way to force
>>>>> defragmentation of
>>>>> these files.
>>>>>
>>>>> larryo

You're a virtual library of good information<g>. Inline if you
care to read; nothing earth shaking there, just ramblings and an
overly long answer:

In news:%23I93B7%(E-Mail Removed),
Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
....
>
> Just curious, why use Goback when XP has System Restore?

IMO only: ymmv of course. I find that GoBack is sometimes
preferable in a few situations. I'm not sure what you refer to
with "System Restore", whether you mean System State or, more
likely Restore Points, but in general GoBack is a more literal
application; sort of a cross between Restore and an imaging
program.
GoBack provides a roll-back to -exactly- what the sytem was on
the date/time you choose, but in whole or in part, where Restore
only brings back your -system- in which case some things may
break. GoBack keeps track of changes on whatever drives you tell
it to monitor - and that's what you get back when you Go Back to
a point in time.

Usually if I'm having trouble, especially if it's a system
problem, I'll first try a Restore point or two. If that doesn't
work, or Restore has been damaged, or it breaks something I wish
it hadn't, one of which seems to happen too often, then if
restore fails or doesn't get me what I want, I try GoBack.
GoBack is a little slower and anything that didn't exist at the
date chosen to go back to, won't exist anymore, but ... you can
do a Post-Restore Rescue of files with it to put those things
back after all. Almost all the time, GoBack will succeed. The
Post-Restore files can be a pain to recover if they're system
files though; not for the faint of heart.
I also use it for -test- installs and whenever I may want to
back out something I restored or installed or fiddled with too
much<g>. It also came in handy a couple of times for getting rid
of a virus, too, since it's rolls back to the exact files on the
entire monitored drive/s. In theory GoBack sees every file
change and so can roll back to any saved date/time. And it
automatically records new points whenever anything is
installed/uninstalled, at each boot, etc. etc..
If that should fail, then I fall back to my imaging
program<g>. It runs an incremental every night so as long as
power is on, I've always got at most data up to yesterday.

On the downside, GoBack wants ten percent of your disk space.
You can set it much lower if you want, but you give up how many
restore dates it can keep then, of course. Most times I seem to
have about a month and a half of restore dates.
Now that I have lots of drive space plus an external for Ghost
backups, and a pretty well tuned/protected system, I have a lot
less use of them, thankfully.
I guess I'm sort of a fanatic over data recovery, but I don't
mind. I even go so far as to give my sister a monthly DVD set of
my backups but rely on the external drive otherwise. So far it's
worked well.
I'm using Ghost 10 for imaging and like it with one exception:
When it does overnight backups, it doesn't seem to create an
error log should errors pop up. Either that or I haven't been
able to find it, which I find more likely. That can be important
if Shadow Copy for instance gets screwed, which happened
recently. So, you do still have to do your own due diligence, I
guess.
I looked at Bootit and True Image too but ended up choosing
Ghost for its bells & whistles and feature set. I think True
IMage would be my second choice if I had to make another
decision.

>
> > Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.
>
> Pop, if one doesn't know the answer, there is no such thing.
> Not
> wasting my time, I have quite a bit of it. ;-)

Sounds like a bird of a feather there! Mine's not by choice, but
it's OK. One just has to learn to revise their goals and
priorities.

Good list BTW: I'm going to check some of those out but so far
window's defrag seems to be the most reliable. I tried Speed
Disk to see if it'd make defrags have to be done less often;
didn't see many diffs, so went back to defrag for most of the
time, especially the system drive. Speed Disk does seem to excel
on data drives though, for getting good access speeds, especially
when I'm doing video editing; it wants huge contiguous amounts of
space on the drive<g>; speed disk's just the ticket there because
it'll let me put files into specific areas.
I haven't tried disk keeper; so far haven't looked at it
though.

Regards,

Pop`


>
> BTW..
> [[Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Microsoft Windows XP, and
> Microsoft
> Windows 2000 include a tool for disk defragmentation. The
> Windows
> Disk Defragmenter tool is a limited version of the Diskeeper
> program
> from Diskeeper Corporation. Disk Defragmenter does not include
> all
> the features available in the full version of Diskeeper.]]
> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;130539
>
> Diskeeper Corporation used to be Executive Software
> International.
> You just can't keep up with the names of companies in any
> industry
> anymore. I think that Diskeeper Corp. just changed their name.
> Everyone else seems to get bought out.
>
> dfrgfat.exe Disk Defragmenter FAT File System Module ©2001
> Microsoft Corp. and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>
> dfrgntfs.exe Disk Defragmenter NTFS Module ©2001 Microsoft
> Corp. and
> Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>
> dfrgres.dll Disk Defragmenter Resource Module ©2001 Microsoft
> Corp.
> and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>
> dfrgsnap.dll Disk Defragmenter Snap-in Module ©2001 Microsoft
> Corp.
> and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>
> dfrgui.dll Disk Defragmenter UI Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp.
> and
> Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>
>
> In news:Ojyc5p%(E-Mail Removed),
> POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > Huh; I guess I stand corrected, in a way: It does say 15%.
> > That's followed by:
> > "
> > If a volume has less than 15% free space, Disk Defragmenter
> > will
> > only partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a
> > volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another disk.
> > "
> > and I can attest to that being the case after further
> > cogitation<g>. IIRC I ended up turning off GoBack to get
> > back
> > the 10% space reserved for it, in order to finish the defrag.
> > It
> > was going very slowly, and was getting even slower as time
> > went
> > by. Shortly after that I bought a larger external drive for
> > storage & shipped a lot of things over to it.
> >
> > Norton, on the other hand, just simply refuses to defrag if
> > the
> > space goes below 15% available; guess that's what I was
> > remembering.
> >
> > Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.
> >
> > Pop`
> >
> >
> >
> > In news:%23vE4L$(E-Mail Removed),
> > Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> > > Pop,
> > >
> > > > Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not
> > > > an XP
> > > > requirement?
> > >
> > > It may be, but I do not use anything Norton/Symantec.
> > >
> > > If you notice the addresses for the links I posted say
> > > www.microsoft.com not Norton or Symantec.
> > >
> > > Best practices
> > > Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
> > >
> > > hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_best_practices.htm
> > >
> > > To defragment a volume
> > > Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
> > >
> > > hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_defrag.htm
> > >
> > > Click on either [+]
> > >
> > >
> > > In news:(E-Mail Removed),
> > > POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> > > > Wesley,
> > > >
> > > > Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not
> > > > an XP
> > > > requirement?
> > > > I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many
> > > > months
> > > > ago, I
> > > > got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to
> > > > defrag.
> > > > I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
> > > > XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow
> > > > since
> > > > it
> > > > apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't
> > > > remember
> > > > how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.
> > > >
> > > > Regards,
> > > >
> > > > Pop`
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
> > > > Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> > > > > How much free space is on your hard drive?
> > > > >
> > > > > Defrag & Free Space
> > > > >
> > > > > [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag
> > > > > to
> > > > > completely
> > > > > and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as
> > > > > a
> > > > > sorting
> > > > > area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15%
> > > > > free
> > > > > space,
> > > > > defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase
> > > > > the
> > > > > free
> > > > > space
> > > > > on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to
> > > > > another
> > > > > disk. ]]
> > > > > Defrag
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
> > > > >
> > > > > [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially
> > > > > defragment
> > > > > volumes
> > > > > that have less than 15 percent free space, for best
> > > > > results
> > > > > delete
> > > > > unneeded files or move them to another volume to
> > > > > increase
> > > > > the
> > > > > free
> > > > > space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the
> > > > > Disk
> > > > > Cleanup tool
> > > > > to delete unnecessary files. For more information
> > > > > about
> > > > > Disk
> > > > > Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
> > > > > Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
> > > > > defragmentation
> > > > > report to see the results. The report includes a list
> > > > > of
> > > > > files
> > > > > that
> > > > > remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some
> > > > > reasons
> > > > > that a
> > > > > file might remain fragmented include:
> > > > >
> > > > > * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to
> > > > > defragment
> > > > > all
> > > > > files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent
> > > > > free
> > > > > disk
> > > > > space
> > > > > to completely defragment a volume.]]
> > > > > From...
> > > > > Files That You Cannot Defragment
> > > > >
> > >
> http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > In
> > > > > news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
> > > > > larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and
> > > > > pecked:
> > > > > > My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > state
> > > > > > which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and
> > > > > > error
> > > > > > checking,
> > > > > > both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a
> > > > > > few
> > > > > > errors
> > > > > > but
> > > > > > after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > problem.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Is there a way to determine which files are "messed
> > > > > > up"
> > > > > > so
> > > > > > badly
> > > > > > that they can't be defragged or a way to force
> > > > > > defragmentation of
> > > > > > these files.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > larryo

I know some things. ;-)

> I'm not sure what you refer to
> with "System Restore", whether you mean System State or, more
> likely Restore Points

System Restore overview
Start | Run | Paste the following line and click OK...

hh sysrestore.chm::/app_system_restore_HSS_overview.htm

Understanding System Restore
Start | Run | Paste the following line and click OK...

hh sysrestore.chm::/app_system_restore_HSS_understanD.htm

I do not use System Restore. I use both of these...

NTREGOPT NT Registry Optimizer
ERUNT The Emergency Recovery Utility NT
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

Direct download links (the zip files just need unzipping and dropping on the
drive. {Thank you, Jim}
http://aumha.org/downloads/erunt.zip

http://aumha.org/downloads/ntregopt.zip

ERUNT [[Note: The "Export registry" function in Regedit is USELESS (!) to
make a complete backup of the registry. Neither does it export the whole
registry (for example, no information from the "SECURITY" hive is
saved), nor can the exported file be used later to replace the current
registry with the old one. Instead, if you re-import the file, it is
merged with the current registry, leaving you with an absolute mess of
old and new registry keys.]]
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-on...runt/erunt.txt

NTREGOPT [[Similar to Windows 9x/Me, the registry files in an NT-based
system can become fragmented over time, occupying more space on your hard
disk than necessary and decreasing overall performance. You should
use the NTREGOPT utility regularly, but especially after installing
or uninstalling a program, to minimize the size of the registry files
and optimize registry access.

The program works by recreating each registry hive "from scratch",
thus removing any slack space that may be left from previously
modified or deleted keys.

Note that the program does NOT change the contents of the registry in
any way, nor does it physically defrag the registry files on the drive
(as the PageDefrag program from SysInternals does). The optimization
done by NTREGOPT is simply compacting the registry hives to the
minimum size possible.]]
http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-on...t/ntregopt.txt

Installing & Using ERUNT
http://www.silentrunners.org/sr_eruntuse.html

To see an illustrated registry restore procedure
http://www.silentrunners.org/sr_erdntuse.html

Take a complete registry backup using ERUNT
http://www.winxptutor.com/regback.htm

I won't have anything Norton/Symantec on my machine.

--
Hope this helps. Let us know.

Wes
MS-MVP Windows Shell/User

In news:(E-Mail Removed),
POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
> You're a virtual library of good information<g>. Inline if you
> care to read; nothing earth shaking there, just ramblings and an
> overly long answer:
>
> In news:%23I93B7%(E-Mail Removed),
> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
> ...
>>
>> Just curious, why use Goback when XP has System Restore?
>
> IMO only: ymmv of course. I find that GoBack is sometimes
> preferable in a few situations. I'm not sure what you refer to
> with "System Restore", whether you mean System State or, more
> likely Restore Points, but in general GoBack is a more literal
> application; sort of a cross between Restore and an imaging
> program.
> GoBack provides a roll-back to -exactly- what the sytem was on
> the date/time you choose, but in whole or in part, where Restore
> only brings back your -system- in which case some things may
> break. GoBack keeps track of changes on whatever drives you tell
> it to monitor - and that's what you get back when you Go Back to
> a point in time.
>
> Usually if I'm having trouble, especially if it's a system
> problem, I'll first try a Restore point or two. If that doesn't
> work, or Restore has been damaged, or it breaks something I wish
> it hadn't, one of which seems to happen too often, then if
> restore fails or doesn't get me what I want, I try GoBack.
> GoBack is a little slower and anything that didn't exist at the
> date chosen to go back to, won't exist anymore, but ... you can
> do a Post-Restore Rescue of files with it to put those things
> back after all. Almost all the time, GoBack will succeed. The
> Post-Restore files can be a pain to recover if they're system
> files though; not for the faint of heart.
> I also use it for -test- installs and whenever I may want to
> back out something I restored or installed or fiddled with too
> much<g>. It also came in handy a couple of times for getting rid
> of a virus, too, since it's rolls back to the exact files on the
> entire monitored drive/s. In theory GoBack sees every file
> change and so can roll back to any saved date/time. And it
> automatically records new points whenever anything is
> installed/uninstalled, at each boot, etc. etc..
> If that should fail, then I fall back to my imaging
> program<g>. It runs an incremental every night so as long as
> power is on, I've always got at most data up to yesterday.
>
> On the downside, GoBack wants ten percent of your disk space.
> You can set it much lower if you want, but you give up how many
> restore dates it can keep then, of course. Most times I seem to
> have about a month and a half of restore dates.
> Now that I have lots of drive space plus an external for Ghost
> backups, and a pretty well tuned/protected system, I have a lot
> less use of them, thankfully.
> I guess I'm sort of a fanatic over data recovery, but I don't
> mind. I even go so far as to give my sister a monthly DVD set of
> my backups but rely on the external drive otherwise. So far it's
> worked well.
> I'm using Ghost 10 for imaging and like it with one exception:
> When it does overnight backups, it doesn't seem to create an
> error log should errors pop up. Either that or I haven't been
> able to find it, which I find more likely. That can be important
> if Shadow Copy for instance gets screwed, which happened
> recently. So, you do still have to do your own due diligence, I
> guess.
> I looked at Bootit and True Image too but ended up choosing
> Ghost for its bells & whistles and feature set. I think True
> IMage would be my second choice if I had to make another
> decision.
>
>>
>>> Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.
>>
>> Pop, if one doesn't know the answer, there is no such thing.
>> Not
>> wasting my time, I have quite a bit of it. ;-)
>
> Sounds like a bird of a feather there! Mine's not by choice, but
> it's OK. One just has to learn to revise their goals and
> priorities.
>
> Good list BTW: I'm going to check some of those out but so far
> window's defrag seems to be the most reliable. I tried Speed
> Disk to see if it'd make defrags have to be done less often;
> didn't see many diffs, so went back to defrag for most of the
> time, especially the system drive. Speed Disk does seem to excel
> on data drives though, for getting good access speeds, especially
> when I'm doing video editing; it wants huge contiguous amounts of
> space on the drive<g>; speed disk's just the ticket there because
> it'll let me put files into specific areas.
> I haven't tried disk keeper; so far haven't looked at it
> though.
>
> Regards,
>
> Pop`
>
>
>>
>> BTW..
>> [[Microsoft Windows Server 2003, Microsoft Windows XP, and
>> Microsoft
>> Windows 2000 include a tool for disk defragmentation. The
>> Windows
>> Disk Defragmenter tool is a limited version of the Diskeeper
>> program
>> from Diskeeper Corporation. Disk Defragmenter does not include
>> all
>> the features available in the full version of Diskeeper.]]
>> http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;130539
>>
>> Diskeeper Corporation used to be Executive Software
>> International.
>> You just can't keep up with the names of companies in any
>> industry
>> anymore. I think that Diskeeper Corp. just changed their name.
>> Everyone else seems to get bought out.
>>
>> dfrgfat.exe Disk Defragmenter FAT File System Module ©2001
>> Microsoft Corp. and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>>
>> dfrgntfs.exe Disk Defragmenter NTFS Module ©2001 Microsoft
>> Corp. and
>> Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>>
>> dfrgres.dll Disk Defragmenter Resource Module ©2001 Microsoft
>> Corp.
>> and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>>
>> dfrgsnap.dll Disk Defragmenter Snap-in Module ©2001 Microsoft
>> Corp.
>> and Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>>
>> dfrgui.dll Disk Defragmenter UI Module ©2001 Microsoft Corp.
>> and
>> Executive Software Int'l, Inc.
>>
>>
>> In news:Ojyc5p%(E-Mail Removed),
>> POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>> Huh; I guess I stand corrected, in a way: It does say 15%.
>>> That's followed by:
>>> "
>>> If a volume has less than 15% free space, Disk Defragmenter
>>> will
>>> only partially defragment it. To increase the free space on a
>>> volume, delete unneeded files or move them to another disk.
>>> "
>>> and I can attest to that being the case after further
>>> cogitation<g>. IIRC I ended up turning off GoBack to get
>>> back
>>> the 10% space reserved for it, in order to finish the defrag.
>>> It
>>> was going very slowly, and was getting even slower as time
>>> went
>>> by. Shortly after that I bought a larger external drive for
>>> storage & shipped a lot of things over to it.
>>>
>>> Norton, on the other hand, just simply refuses to defrag if
>>> the
>>> space goes below 15% available; guess that's what I was
>>> remembering.
>>>
>>> Sorry about the misinformed question & wasting your time.
>>>
>>> Pop`
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In news:%23vE4L$(E-Mail Removed),
>>> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>>> Pop,
>>>>
>>>>> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not
>>>>> an XP
>>>>> requirement?
>>>>
>>>> It may be, but I do not use anything Norton/Symantec.
>>>>
>>>> If you notice the addresses for the links I posted say
>>>> www.microsoft.com not Norton or Symantec.
>>>>
>>>> Best practices
>>>> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>>>>
>>>> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_best_practices.htm
>>>>
>>>> To defragment a volume
>>>> Paste the following line into Start | Run and click OK...
>>>>
>>>> hh DKconcepts.chm::/defrag_defrag.htm
>>>>
>>>> Click on either [+]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In news:(E-Mail Removed),
>>>> POP <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and pecked:
>>>>> Wesley,
>>>>>
>>>>> Isn't that 15% a Norton Speed disk requirement and not
>>>>> an XP
>>>>> requirement?
>>>>> I feel pretty sure I'm right because not so many
>>>>> months
>>>>> ago, I
>>>>> got that message on a drive Speed Disk was called on to
>>>>> defrag.
>>>>> I think there was about 9% free IIRC.
>>>>> XP's Defrag worked fine on it, although pretty slow
>>>>> since
>>>>> it
>>>>> apparently had to work in pretty small chunks. I don't
>>>>> remember
>>>>> how slow, but it was measured in hours <g>.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Pop`
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> In news:O%(E-Mail Removed),
>>>>> Wesley Vogel <(E-Mail Removed)> typed:
>>>>>> How much free space is on your hard drive?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Defrag & Free Space
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [[A volume must have at least 15% free space for defrag
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> completely
>>>>>> and adequately defragment it. Defrag uses this space as
>>>>>> a
>>>>>> sorting
>>>>>> area for file fragments. If a volume has less than 15%
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> space,
>>>>>> defrag will only partially defragment it. To increase
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> space
>>>>>> on a volume, delete unneeded files or move them to
>>>>>> another
>>>>>> disk. ]]
>>>>>> Defrag
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...us/defrag.mspx
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [[Although the defragmentation tools can partially
>>>>>> defragment
>>>>>> volumes
>>>>>> that have less than 15 percent free space, for best
>>>>>> results
>>>>>> delete
>>>>>> unneeded files or move them to another volume to
>>>>>> increase
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> space to at least 15 percent. You can also use the
>>>>>> Disk
>>>>>> Cleanup tool
>>>>>> to delete unnecessary files. For more information
>>>>>> about
>>>>>> Disk
>>>>>> Cleanup, see Windows XP Professional Help.]]
>>>>>> Before Using the Disk Defragmentation Tools
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/tre...d_tro_oegv.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>> [[After you defragment a volume, you can view the
>>>>>> defragmentation
>>>>>> report to see the results. The report includes a list
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> files
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> remain fragmented (having two or more fragments). Some
>>>>>> reasons
>>>>>> that a
>>>>>> file might remain fragmented include:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> * The volume lacks adequate contiguous free space to
>>>>>> defragment
>>>>>> all
>>>>>> files. Disk Defragmenter requires at least 15 percent
>>>>>> free
>>>>>> disk
>>>>>> space
>>>>>> to completely defragment a volume.]]
>>>>>> From...
>>>>>> Files That You Cannot Defragment
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>
http://www.microsoft.com/resources/d...d_tro_ldtg.asp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In
>>>>>> news:E60E4F5E-A4EC-4904-9F50-(E-Mail Removed),
>>>>>> larryo <(E-Mail Removed)> hunted and
>>>>>> pecked:
>>>>>>> My C: drive will not defrag completely. The log does
>>>>>>> not
>>>>>>> state
>>>>>>> which files can not be defragged. Have run sfc and
>>>>>>> error
>>>>>>> checking,
>>>>>>> both completed successfully. Event viewer shows a
>>>>>>> few
>>>>>>> errors
>>>>>>> but
>>>>>>> after checking MS Help and support they don't seem to
>>>>>>> be
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> problem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is there a way to determine which files are "messed
>>>>>>> up"
>>>>>>> so
>>>>>>> badly
>>>>>>> that they can't be defragged or a way to force
>>>>>>> defragmentation of
>>>>>>> these files.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> larryo