Hi all,

I'm currently evaluating the use of a TS in our network
had have the following situation:

NT4 DOMAIN
W2K 2000 TS server
I need 5 clients to connect, clients run W2K pro

Because we have to open 4 new branch offices, which need
some funcionality on a server on our central office, I
have to deploy a Terminal Server. On the TS we will only
run 3 special applications that we have client licences
for, all other applications will run on the local client
itself. Because of the new offices the upgrade to a w2k3
domain has been prosponed.

(The 3 applications run on w2k TS, havn't tested them on a
w2k3 TS yet)

If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS has
to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet (I
do have 2000 and 2003 member servers available)

Here's the sollution I think of:

- W2k3 TS server and licensing server on one machine
- Install 5 TS CAL on it
- Deploy the TS client to the 5 workstations

I have the following questions:

1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?
2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?
3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients, is
it machine based or user based?
4 - Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
installing the TS client on workstations?
5 - Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
the TS?

I hope someone can answer my questions or give me a better
sollution if mine is a bogus one

Regards,

Danee de Kruyff
the Netherlands

Hi Danee,

I will try to answer your questions the best I can,
keeping in mind I am from the USA and I am not sure if
Microsofts licensing is different in other contries.

1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?
(You do not have to upgrade these machines to run TS on,
unless you have another reason for upgrading such as the
machine are too slow etc..

2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?
(I am fuzzy on this one, but I think MS provide 1
administrator login per server. But if you connect from a
client with Win2K or XP you needn't worry, since Win2k and
WinXp OSs have built-in TS CALS.

3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients, is
it machine based or user based?
(MS Terminal Server comes with both of the models you
mentioned above. The catch? You can only use one. You must
decide whether you want to supply licenses per machine
(which means you must use that machine in specific to
connect.) Or you can license you server per conncurrent
connections. Which means anyone can connect to the server
up to the number of licenses you have. Since your clients
have WIN2k they do NOT need Terminal Services CALS, since
Win2k and XP have them built in.


If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS has
to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet
(To be short, TS Licensing does not have to be installed
on a domain controller. Now that is the short version.
Depending on your network setup etc that could be wrong
for your instance here. But TS Licensing can be setup on
the same machine as the Terminal Server if you would like.)

Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
installing the TS client on workstations?
(Termianl Logons can be controlled via the local user
account. On the Terminal Server open up a user account.
Within the user properties there is a tab called Terminal
Services Profile. Under that tab you can simply uncheck
the ALLOW LOGIN TO TERMINAL SERVER check box to stop a
person from login to the server. By default the box is
checked allowing the user to login.)


Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
the TS?
(You will need the correct number of WIN2k Server CALS for
the number of users you plan on allowing access to this
server. The WIN2k CALS allow access to other server
functions such as file and print processes.)

If you plan to upgrade to WIN2k3 I suggest you test your
applications first with it to make sure they run, before
purchasingz it.

Also note that WIN2k and XP clients are eligible for
Terminal Services CALS without cost to you for your WIN2k3
server. There is however an automated process you must go
through to get these CAL numbers from Microsoft's website.
Simply put, you eneter WIN2k or XP serial numbers and MS
will send you TS CAL serial numbers via email.

I hope this helps you..


Kevin



>-----Original Message-----
>Hi all,
>
>I'm currently evaluating the use of a TS in our network
>had have the following situation:
>
>NT4 DOMAIN
>W2K 2000 TS server
>I need 5 clients to connect, clients run W2K pro
>
>Because we have to open 4 new branch offices, which need
>some funcionality on a server on our central office, I
>have to deploy a Terminal Server. On the TS we will only
>run 3 special applications that we have client licences
>for, all other applications will run on the local client
>itself. Because of the new offices the upgrade to a w2k3
>domain has been prosponed.
>
>(The 3 applications run on w2k TS, havn't tested them on
a
>w2k3 TS yet)
>
>If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS
has
>to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet
(I
>do have 2000 and 2003 member servers available)
>
>Here's the sollution I think of:
>
>- W2k3 TS server and licensing server on one machine
>- Install 5 TS CAL on it
>- Deploy the TS client to the 5 workstations
>
>I have the following questions:
>
>1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?
>2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?
>3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients,
is
>it machine based or user based?
>4 - Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
>installing the TS client on workstations?
>5 - Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
>the TS?
>
>I hope someone can answer my questions or give me a
better
>sollution if mine is a bogus one
>
>Regards,
>
>Danee de Kruyff
>the Netherlands
>
>.
>

answers inline.

"Danee" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:b32201c3b8e7$8bfe7090
$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hi all,
>
> I'm currently evaluating the use of a TS in our network
> had have the following situation:
>
> NT4 DOMAIN
> W2K 2000 TS server
> I need 5 clients to connect, clients run W2K pro
>
> Because we have to open 4 new branch offices, which need
> some funcionality on a server on our central office, I
> have to deploy a Terminal Server. On the TS we will only
> run 3 special applications that we have client licences
> for, all other applications will run on the local client
> itself. Because of the new offices the upgrade to a w2k3
> domain has been prosponed.
>
> (The 3 applications run on w2k TS, havn't tested them on a
> w2k3 TS yet)
>
> If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS has
> to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet (I
> do have 2000 and 2003 member servers available)

That's generally true, but the exception is when the W2K TS is a
member of a workgroup or an NT 4.0 domain. In those cases, you can
install and run the W2K TS Licensing Service on the W2K member
server (on the TS itself). You'll have to hardcode the address of
the LS into the registry of the TS. Check:

261110 - Windows 2000 Terminal Services in Windows NT 4.0 Domain
Cannot Find Windows 2000 Terminal Services Licensing Server
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=261110

> Here's the sollution I think of:
>
> - W2k3 TS server and licensing server on one machine
> - Install 5 TS CAL on it
> - Deploy the TS client to the 5 workstations
>
> I have the following questions:
>
> 1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?

No. no need for that.

> 2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?

If you install Windows 2003 Terminal Services (which is equivalent
to W2K TS in Application mode), then you need a TS CAL for every
user or workstation that starts a TS session, including
administrators. If you only enable 2003 Remote Desktop for
Administration (equivalent to W2K TS in Remote Administration
mode), then you don't need TS Licensing at all, but have only 2
concurrent connections (+ the console connection).

> 3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients, is
> it machine based or user based?

With 2003 TS, you can choose. Buy either "Per User" or "Per
Device" TS CALs.

> 4 - Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
> installing the TS client on workstations?

You can define which users will be allowed to connect. In
combination with "Per User" TS CALs, this will do what you want.
Rejecting unwanted workstations is not a native function (but
there are 3th party rdp clients which do this).

> 5 - Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
> the TS?

You will need 2003 server CALs as well for every workstation that
connects. Also these come in "Per User" and "Per Device" mode.

> I hope someone can answer my questions or give me a better
> sollution if mine is a bogus one

No, this is perfectly possible. There are some more details that
you need to know, though:

Per User TS CALs were build-in to the OS in a very late stage.
The 2003 TS Licensing server cannot handle them correctly, so
currently Per User CALs are unmanaged.
This means that when a TS server is set to accept User CALs it
will look to the license server to make sure that one is available
but it will not be decremented from the database.
It is your responsibility to have a valid User CAL for every user
that uses the terminal server.
Check this article, it explains that even after you have
switched licensing mode on the TS, your User CALs count will not
be decremented:

822134 - The Function of Terminal Server CALs in Windows Server
2003
http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=822134

If you buy "Per User" TS CALs, then the Terminal Server (not the
Licensing Server!) must be set to use "Per User" licensing. The
default is "Per Device".
You can check this from Administrative Tools - Terminal Services
Configuration - Server Settings
If it's set to Per Device mode, it will look for a Device TS CAL
and will not issue your Per User TS CALs.

You might also want to read the
Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...licensing/pric
licfaq.mspx

> Regards,

Vriendelijke groeten,

> Danee de Kruyff
> the Netherlands

Vera, Zweden (maar met Nederlands als m'n moerstaal :-)
--
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
http://hem.fyristorg.com/vera/IT
--- please respond in newsgroup ---

I'm sorry, but some of the information in this post is incorrect.
comments inline.

--
Vera Noest
MCSE, CCEA, Microsoft MVP - Terminal Server
http://hem.fyristorg.com/vera/IT
--- please respond in newsgroup ---

<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in news:042701c3b913
$4e8a9cd0$(E-Mail Removed):

> Hi Danee,
>
> I will try to answer your questions the best I can,
> keeping in mind I am from the USA and I am not sure if
> Microsofts licensing is different in other contries.
>
> 1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?
> (You do not have to upgrade these machines to run TS on,
> unless you have another reason for upgrading such as the
> machine are too slow etc..
>
> 2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?
> (I am fuzzy on this one, but I think MS provide 1
> administrator login per server. But if you connect from a
> client with Win2K or XP you needn't worry, since Win2k and
> WinXp OSs have built-in TS CALS.

2 concurrent connections on W2K TS, 3 (2 + 1 console connection)
on 2003 TS.
Note: *no* operating system comes with a build-in TS CAL. Even if
you have W2K Pro or XP Pro clients, you still need to install and
activate a TS Licensing server, since the free TS CAL for W2K Pro
and XP Pro clients is issued by the Licensing server.
Note also that these clients only get a free TS CAL when the TS is
running W2K, not 2003!


> 3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients, is
> it machine based or user based?
> (MS Terminal Server comes with both of the models you
> mentioned above. The catch? You can only use one.

No, you can use both (provided that we are only talking 2003 here.
W2K has only one type of TS CALs, which is per device). It's
difficult to manage, though, but perfectly possible.
Check:
Windows Server 2003 Pricing and Licensing FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...licensing/pric
licfaq.mspx

Windows Server 2003 Terminal Server Licensing White paper
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...overview/terms
ervlic.mspx

> You must
> decide whether you want to supply licenses per machine
> (which means you must use that machine in specific to
> connect.) Or you can license you server per conncurrent
> connections.

TS CALs are *not* concurrent! There are per user or per device,
but not concurrent.

> Which means anyone can connect to the server
> up to the number of licenses you have. Since your clients
> have WIN2k they do NOT need Terminal Services CALS, since
> Win2k and XP have them built in.

See above. This applies only to W2K, and even then, it is not true
strictly speaking.

> If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS has
> to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet
> (To be short, TS Licensing does not have to be installed
> on a domain controller. Now that is the short version.
> Depending on your network setup etc that could be wrong
> for your instance here. But TS Licensing can be setup on
> the same machine as the Terminal Server if you would like.)
>
> Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
> installing the TS client on workstations?
> (Termianl Logons can be controlled via the local user
> account. On the Terminal Server open up a user account.
> Within the user properties there is a tab called Terminal
> Services Profile. Under that tab you can simply uncheck
> the ALLOW LOGIN TO TERMINAL SERVER check box to stop a
> person from login to the server. By default the box is
> checked allowing the user to login.)
>
>
> Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
> the TS?
> (You will need the correct number of WIN2k Server CALS for
> the number of users you plan on allowing access to this
> server. The WIN2k CALS allow access to other server
> functions such as file and print processes.)
>
> If you plan to upgrade to WIN2k3 I suggest you test your
> applications first with it to make sure they run, before
> purchasingz it.
>
> Also note that WIN2k and XP clients are eligible for
> Terminal Services CALS without cost to you for your WIN2k3
> server.

The free 2003 TS CALs are only available for XP Pro clients that
you owned at the date of release of Windows 2003 (24 april 2003).
You cannot apply for such a free TS CAL for a W2K Pro clients.
Check:

Terminal Server CAL Transition Plan FAQ
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserv...licensing/tsca
ltransfaq.mspx

> There is however an automated process you must go
> through to get these CAL numbers from Microsoft's website.
> Simply put, you eneter WIN2k or XP serial numbers and MS
> will send you TS CAL serial numbers via email.
>
> I hope this helps you..
>
>
> Kevin
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>Hi all,
>>
>>I'm currently evaluating the use of a TS in our network
>>had have the following situation:
>>
>>NT4 DOMAIN
>>W2K 2000 TS server
>>I need 5 clients to connect, clients run W2K pro
>>
>>Because we have to open 4 new branch offices, which need
>>some funcionality on a server on our central office, I
>>have to deploy a Terminal Server. On the TS we will only
>>run 3 special applications that we have client licences
>>for, all other applications will run on the local client
>>itself. Because of the new offices the upgrade to a w2k3
>>domain has been prosponed.
>>
>>(The 3 applications run on w2k TS, havn't tested them on
> a
>>w2k3 TS yet)
>>
>>If i'm not mistaking the licensing server for a w2k TS
> has
>>to be installed on a DC, but I have no 2000/2003 DC yet
> (I
>>do have 2000 and 2003 member servers available)
>>
>>Here's the sollution I think of:
>>
>>- W2k3 TS server and licensing server on one machine
>>- Install 5 TS CAL on it
>>- Deploy the TS client to the 5 workstations
>>
>>I have the following questions:
>>
>>1 - Do I have to upgrade the workstations?
>>2 - Do I need a TS CAL for adminitrative use?
>>3 - How do the TS CAL's get distributed to the clients,
> is
>>it machine based or user based?
>>4 - Can I avoid 'unallowed' TS access other than not
>>installing the TS client on workstations?
>>5 - Do I need any other form of licences for the use of
>>the TS?
>>
>>I hope someone can answer my questions or give me a
> better
>>sollution if mine is a bogus one
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Danee de Kruyff
>>the Netherlands

Kevin, thanks

Vera, Bedankt.

I took a look at your site Vera and found some
interresting reading material! well done!

Vriendelijke groeten,

Danee