Hi group,

I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times in the past 6 months
because of a corrupted MBR.

Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and a running
FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of months only to have the
same problem happen again.

Thinking it was the hard drive, I took it back to the manufacturer for
a warranty replacement. Now the problem seems to be happening again on
the new drive and only 1 month of having it.

Just wondering what could be the problem source of the problem.

There are a few things that I think could be the problem, you might be
able to shed some light on this.

1. Windows XP x64 -I might have a bodgy copy of the O/S, although I
highly doubt it as it's a volume license version.
2. The SATA/IDE bus is somehow not working and therefore corrupting
the hard drive.

The problem seems to pop it's head up straight after a reboot. Either
because the machine has frozen or I get "BSoD".

Is there anyway of testing the SATA/IDE bus or are there other areas
that could be the problem?

Thanks in advanced,
Bernard

Bernard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote

> Hi group,

Lo groupy,

> I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
> in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.

> Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console
> and a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple
> of months only to have the same problem happen again.

> Thinking it was the hard drive,

Thats unlikely if only the MBR was affected.

> I took it back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement.
> Now the problem seems to be happening again on the new
> drive and only 1 month of having it.

> Just wondering what could be the problem source of the problem.

Something else in the hard drive subsystem, or its a software problem.

Most likely a software problem.

> There are a few things that I think could be the problem,
> you might be able to shed some light on this.

> 1. Windows XP x64 -I might have a bodgy copy of the O/S,
> although I highly doubt it as it's a volume license version.

It wont be that.

> 2. The SATA/IDE bus is somehow not working
> and therefore corrupting the hard drive.

Very unlikely to JUST corrupt the MBR.

> The problem seems to pop it's head up straight after a reboot.

Thats important.

> Either because the machine has frozen or I get "BSoD".

That doesnt normally corrupt the MBR.

> Is there anyway of testing the SATA/IDE bus

It wont be that, if that was the problem, it wouldnt JUST corrupt the MBR.

> or are there other areas that could be the problem?

Yep, it could be in a wide variety of areas.

Most likely something is causing the freeze and BSODs and when that has happened,
the MBR is corrupted when the system attempts to boot after that problem has shown up.
That might be due to bad caps. These are the usually blue or black plastic covered post
like things that stick up vertically from the motherboard surface. The tops should be flat.
If any have bulged or have leaked, thats likely the problem.

Is there any commonality in what produces the freeze or BSOD ?

Thanks for the quick reply Rod.

Regarding the BSoD, that only happened once. The common denominator
here seems to be a reboot while the hard drive is "doing something".
For example, the last time the hard drive "screwed up", the BSoD was
dumping the physicals and this took around 1hr. So I got impatient and
restarted the machine. While another time, the system just froze up
and the hard drive I/O light was on, so I restarted and BANG. Same
problem.

As for the only the MBR being affected, I forgot to mention on the
original post that the while doing CHKDSK, there were a lot of index,
USN journal fixes, orphan files and also it did a step I've never seen
before "Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap".
The CHKDSK errors happen every time this problem pops up.

Does this sound more like an onboard controller fault?

Are there any utilities I can use to test the motherboard/chipset and
the controllers?

I thought something that would send large amounts of data to the hard
drive (therefore via the SATA/IDE controller) and checks whether the
data was received as expected.

Thanks again,
Bernard

On Mar 31, 3:39 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bernard <bernard.her...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> > Hi group,
>
> Lo groupy,
>
> > I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
> > in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.
> > Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console
> > and a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple
> > of months only to have the same problem happen again.
> > Thinking it was the hard drive,
>
> Thats unlikely if only the MBR was affected.
>
> > I took it back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement.
> > Now the problem seems to be happening again on the new
> > drive and only 1 month of having it.
> > Just wondering what could be the problem source of the problem.
>
> Something else in the hard drive subsystem, or its a software problem.
>
> Most likely a software problem.
>
> > There are a few things that I think could be the problem,
> > you might be able to shed some light on this.
> > 1. Windows XP x64 -I might have a bodgy copy of the O/S,
> > although I highly doubt it as it's a volume license version.
>
> It wont be that.
>
> > 2. The SATA/IDE bus is somehow not working
> > and therefore corrupting the hard drive.
>
> Very unlikely to JUST corrupt the MBR.
>
> > The problem seems to pop it's head up straight after a reboot.
>
> Thats important.
>
> > Either because the machine has frozen or I get "BSoD".
>
> That doesnt normally corrupt the MBR.
>
> > Is there anyway of testing the SATA/IDE bus
>
> It wont be that, if that was the problem, it wouldnt JUST corrupt the MBR.
>
> > or are there other areas that could be the problem?
>
> Yep, it could be in a wide variety of areas.
>
> Most likely something is causing the freeze and BSODs and when that has happened,
> the MBR is corrupted when the system attempts to boot after that problem has shown up.
> That might be due to bad caps. These are the usually blue or black plastic covered post
> like things that stick up vertically from the motherboard surface. The tops should be flat.
> If any have bulged or have leaked, thats likely the problem.
>
> Is there any commonality in what produces the freeze or BSOD ?

Thanks Franc,

The reason I run FIXMBR is because recovery console doesn't recognise
the drive. Once I run FIXMBR and restart, the drive becomes available
for me to run CHKDSK.

Cheers,
Bernard

On Mar 31, 5:44 pm, Franc Zabkar <fzab...@iinternode.on.net> wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:27:38 -0700 (PDT), Bernard
> <bernard.her...@gmail.com> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> >I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times in the past 6 months
> >because of a corrupted MBR.
>
> >Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and a running
> >FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of months only to have the
> >same problem happen again.
>
> I can't understand why your OS or your software would want to write to
> the MBR, unless you were repartitioning the disc or intentionally
> refreshing the MBR code. Instead I suspect that your drive is
> developing bad sectors.
>
> If you believe that the MBR code is corrupt because FIXMBR is telling
> you so, then be aware of the following bug (it is also present in Win
> XP Home's recovery console).
>
> ====================================================================
> Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/
>
> SYMPTOMS
>
> When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows
> 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following
> error message:
>
> This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot
> record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed. This
> could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to become
> inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing your drive, do
> not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?
>
> RESOLUTION
>
> Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of this
> article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.
>
> STATUS
>
> Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
> products that are listed at the beginning of this article.
>
> MORE INFORMATION
>
> The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your
> computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state
> of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
> ====================================================================
>
> - Franc Zabkar
> --
> Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

Bernard <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> Thanks for the quick reply Rod.

Unfortunately this one took longer |-(

> Regarding the BSoD, that only happened once.

Thats even worse, freezes can be due to a hell of a lot of things.

> The common denominator here seems to be a reboot while the hard drive is "doing something".

OK, then it may not actually be a freeze at all, just the drive retrying on a bad.

Post the Everest SMART report on the drive.
http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181

> For example, the last time the hard drive "screwed up", the BSoD was
> dumping the physicals and this took around 1hr. So I got impatient and
> restarted the machine. While another time, the system just froze up and
> the hard drive I/O light was on, so I restarted and BANG. Same problem.

> As for the only the MBR being affected, I forgot to mention on the
> original post that the while doing CHKDSK, there were a lot of index,
> USN journal fixes, orphan files and also it did a step I've never seen
> before "Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap".
> The CHKDSK errors happen every time this problem pops up.

OK, thats an important difference.

> Does this sound more like an onboard controller fault?

No, just that you do have a problem with the hard drive subsystem.

> Are there any utilities I can use to test the motherboard/chipset and the controllers?

No, not in the sense that you can readily check what ends up on the platters.

> I thought something that would send large amounts of data
> to the hard drive (therefore via the SATA/IDE controller)
> and checks whether the data was received as expected.

There isnt anything much like that thats free.

You can obviously do a copy and compare at the file level using a cmd file.


> Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
>> Bernard <bernard.her...@gmail.com> wrote
>>
>>> Hi group,
>>
>> Lo groupy,
>>
>>> I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
>>> in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.
>>> Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console
>>> and a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple
>>> of months only to have the same problem happen again.
>>> Thinking it was the hard drive,
>>
>> Thats unlikely if only the MBR was affected.
>>
>>> I took it back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement.
>>> Now the problem seems to be happening again on the new
>>> drive and only 1 month of having it.
>>> Just wondering what could be the problem source of the problem.
>>
>> Something else in the hard drive subsystem, or its a software
>> problem.
>>
>> Most likely a software problem.
>>
>>> There are a few things that I think could be the problem,
>>> you might be able to shed some light on this.
>>> 1. Windows XP x64 -I might have a bodgy copy of the O/S,
>>> although I highly doubt it as it's a volume license version.
>>
>> It wont be that.
>>
>>> 2. The SATA/IDE bus is somehow not working
>>> and therefore corrupting the hard drive.
>>
>> Very unlikely to JUST corrupt the MBR.
>>
>>> The problem seems to pop it's head up straight after a reboot.
>>
>> Thats important.
>>
>>> Either because the machine has frozen or I get "BSoD".
>>
>> That doesnt normally corrupt the MBR.
>>
>>> Is there anyway of testing the SATA/IDE bus
>>
>> It wont be that, if that was the problem, it wouldnt JUST corrupt
>> the MBR.
>>
>>> or are there other areas that could be the problem?
>>
>> Yep, it could be in a wide variety of areas.
>>
>> Most likely something is causing the freeze and BSODs and when that
>> has happened,
>> the MBR is corrupted when the system attempts to boot after that
>> problem has shown up. That might be due to bad caps. These are the
>> usually blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick up
>> vertically from the motherboard surface. The tops should be flat. If
>> any have bulged or have leaked, thats likely the problem.
>>
>> Is there any commonality in what produces the freeze or BSOD ?

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:27:38 -0700 (PDT), Bernard
<(E-Mail Removed)> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times in the past 6 months
>because of a corrupted MBR.
>
>Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and a running
>FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of months only to have the
>same problem happen again.

I can't understand why your OS or your software would want to write to
the MBR, unless you were repartitioning the disc or intentionally
refreshing the MBR code. Instead I suspect that your drive is
developing bad sectors.

If you believe that the MBR code is corrupt because FIXMBR is telling
you so, then be aware of the following bug (it is also present in Win
XP Home's recovery console).

====================================================================
Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/

SYMPTOMS

When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows
2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following
error message:

This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot
record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed. This
could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to become
inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing your drive, do
not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?

RESOLUTION

Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of this
article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.

STATUS

Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
products that are listed at the beginning of this article.

MORE INFORMATION

The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your
computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state
of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
====================================================================

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:39:39 -0700 (PDT), Bernard
<(E-Mail Removed)> put finger to keyboard and composed:

>Are there any utilities I can use to test the motherboard/chipset and
>the controllers?
>
>I thought something that would send large amounts of data to the hard
>drive (therefore via the SATA/IDE controller) and checks whether the
>data was received as expected.

Check your drive for bad sectors with your HD manufacturer's
diagnostic software. For example, Seagate supplies SeaTools.

If you suspect that something is wrong at the motherboard end, then
stick your drive in an external USB enclosure and test it from a USB
port.

Otherwise you could copy 1GB .VOB files from one location on your hard
drive to another and then compare the source and destination files.

The following Windows commands copy 10GB of data and compare each of
the copies with the original.

for %i in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do copy test.vob test%i.vob
for %i in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do fc /b test.vob test%i.vob

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

The hard drive is stuffed, I've already had 3 different 1's with the
same problems. So I'd like to know what the source of the problem is.

I might just buy a SATA PCI controller and see how I go.

I just don't want to invest more time in rebuilding the system,
installing all the programs and updates for it to then go down again.

I'll let you know how I go with the Everest test. I'm also going to
use Hot CPU Tester to test the chipset and motherboard. I'll let you
know soon.

Cheers,
Bernard

On Mar 31, 5:43 pm, "Rod Speed" <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote:
> Bernard <bernard.her...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Thanks for the quick reply Rod.
>
> Unfortunately this one took longer |-(
>
> > Regarding the BSoD, that only happened once.
>
> Thats even worse, freezes can be due to a hell of a lot of things.
>
> > The common denominator here seems to be a reboot while the hard drive is "doing something".
>
> OK, then it may not actually be a freeze at all, just the drive retrying on a bad.
>
> Post the Everest SMART report on the drive.http://www.majorgeeks.com/download.php?det=4181
>
> > For example, the last time the hard drive "screwed up", the BSoD was
> > dumping the physicals and this took around 1hr. So I got impatient and
> > restarted the machine. While another time, the system just froze up and
> > the hard drive I/O light was on, so I restarted and BANG. Same problem.
> > As for the only the MBR being affected, I forgot to mention on the
> > original post that the while doing CHKDSK, there were a lot of index,
> > USN journal fixes, orphan files and also it did a step I've never seen
> > before "Correcting errors in the Volume Bitmap".
> > The CHKDSK errors happen every time this problem pops up.
>
> OK, thats an important difference.
>
> > Does this sound more like an onboard controller fault?
>
> No, just that you do have a problem with the hard drive subsystem.
>
> > Are there any utilities I can use to test the motherboard/chipset and the controllers?
>
> No, not in the sense that you can readily check what ends up on the platters.
>
> > I thought something that would send large amounts of data
> > to the hard drive (therefore via the SATA/IDE controller)
> > and checks whether the data was received as expected.
>
> There isnt anything much like that thats free.
>
> You can obviously do a copy and compare at the file level using a cmd file.
>
> > Rod Speed <rod.speed....@gmail.com> wrote
> >> Bernard <bernard.her...@gmail.com> wrote
>
> >>> Hi group,
>
> >> Lo groupy,
>
> >>> I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times
> >>> in the past 6 months because of a corrupted MBR.
> >>> Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console
> >>> and a running FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple
> >>> of months only to have the same problem happen again.
> >>> Thinking it was the hard drive,
>
> >> Thats unlikely if only the MBR was affected.
>
> >>> I took it back to the manufacturer for a warranty replacement.
> >>> Now the problem seems to be happening again on the new
> >>> drive and only 1 month of having it.
> >>> Just wondering what could be the problem source of the problem.
>
> >> Something else in the hard drive subsystem, or its a software
> >> problem.
>
> >> Most likely a software problem.
>
> >>> There are a few things that I think could be the problem,
> >>> you might be able to shed some light on this.
> >>> 1. Windows XP x64 -I might have a bodgy copy of the O/S,
> >>> although I highly doubt it as it's a volume license version.
>
> >> It wont be that.
>
> >>> 2. The SATA/IDE bus is somehow not working
> >>> and therefore corrupting the hard drive.
>
> >> Very unlikely to JUST corrupt the MBR.
>
> >>> The problem seems to pop it's head up straight after a reboot.
>
> >> Thats important.
>
> >>> Either because the machine has frozen or I get "BSoD".
>
> >> That doesnt normally corrupt the MBR.
>
> >>> Is there anyway of testing the SATA/IDE bus
>
> >> It wont be that, if that was the problem, it wouldnt JUST corrupt
> >> the MBR.
>
> >>> or are there other areas that could be the problem?
>
> >> Yep, it could be in a wide variety of areas.
>
> >> Most likely something is causing the freeze and BSODs and when that
> >> has happened,
> >> the MBR is corrupted when the system attempts to boot after that
> >> problem has shown up. That might be due to bad caps. These are the
> >> usually blue or black plastic covered post like things that stick up
> >> vertically from the motherboard surface. The tops should be flat. If
> >> any have bulged or have leaked, thats likely the problem.
>
> >> Is there any commonality in what produces the freeze or BSOD ?

Franc Zabkar wrote in news:(E-Mail Removed)
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 22:39:39 -0700 (PDT), Bernard
> <(E-Mail Removed)> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> > Are there any utilities I can use to test the motherboard/chipset and
> > the controllers?
> >
> > I thought something that would send large amounts of data to the hard
> > drive (therefore via the SATA/IDE controller) and checks whether the
> > data was received as expected.

> Check your drive for bad sectors

Bad sectors don't 'corrupt' the MBR.

> with your HD manufacturer's diagnostic software.
> For example, Seagate supplies SeaTools.
>
> If you suspect that something is wrong at the motherboard end, then
> stick your drive in an external USB enclosure and test it from a USB
> port.
>
> Otherwise you could copy 1GB .VOB files from one location on your hard
> drive to another and then compare the source and destination files.
>
> The following Windows commands copy 10GB of data and compare each of
> the copies with the original.
>
> for %i in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do copy test.vob test%i.vob
> for %i in (0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9) do fc /b test.vob test%i.vob
>
> - Franc Zabkar

Franc Zabkar wrote in news:(E-Mail Removed)
> On Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:27:38 -0700 (PDT), Bernard
> <(E-Mail Removed)> put finger to keyboard and composed:
>
> > I've had to format my hard drive around 6 times in the past 6 months
> > because of a corrupted MBR.
> >
> > Initially, a few runs of CHKDSK in the recovery console and a running
> > FIXMBR has fixed the problem for a couple of months only to have the
> > same problem happen again.

> I can't understand why your OS or your software would want to write
> to the MBR, unless you were repartitioning the disc or intentionally
> refreshing the MBR code.

If I'm not mistaken NT keeps a signature there.

> Instead I suspect that your drive is developing bad sectors.

A corrupt MBR is not a bad sector.
It's a readable one that lost it's expected contents to a certain extend.

>
> If you believe that the MBR code is corrupt because FIXMBR is telling
> you so, then be aware of the following bug (it is also present in Win
> XP Home's recovery console).
>
> ====================================================================
> Error Message When You Run fixmbr Command:
> http://support.microsoft.com/kb/266745/
>
> SYMPTOMS
>
> When you attempt to run the fixmbr command in the Microsoft Windows
> 2000 recovery console, your computer system may display the following
> error message:
>
> This computer appears to have a non-standard or invalid master boot
> record. FIXMBR may damage your partition tables if you proceed. This
> could cause all the partitions on the current hard disk to become
> inaccessible. If you are not having problems accessing your drive, do
> not continue. Are you sure you want to write a new MBR?
>
> RESOLUTION
>
> Ignore the error message described in the "Symptoms" section of this
> article. The fixmbr command can safely rewrite the MBR.
>
> STATUS
>
> Microsoft has confirmed that this is a problem in the Microsoft
> products that are listed at the beginning of this article.
>
> MORE INFORMATION
>
> The fixmbr command causes this error message to be displayed on your
> computer system whenever you run the command, regardless of the state
> of the Master Boot Record (MBR).
> ====================================================================
>
> - Franc Zabkar