I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I might
use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why it
looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them with
the alert box on every page, etc.

I think I came up with a good solution:

using the @import rule like so:
<style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
<style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
will block only nn.

so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it just
serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and usable,
though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so ugly,
so here is what I came up with:

on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
..warning{
display: none;
}

and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put this:

<span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version of this
web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser or the
style sheet failed to load.</span>


so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets served
without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical problem
with the server.

In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the .warning
class thingy was all mine ;-)

I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot easier!

Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.

Chris,

As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web site that
basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical browser
they are using.

Why discriminate?

I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors, since
the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most likely
will move on to another web site and never bother to return. Remember you
only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has what they
are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I might
> use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why it
> looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them with
> the alert box on every page, etc.
>
> I think I came up with a good solution:
>
> using the @import rule like so:
> <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> will block only nn.
>
> so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it just
> serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and usable,
> though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so
ugly,
> so here is what I came up with:
>
> on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> .warning{
> display: none;
> }
>
> and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put this:
>
> <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version of
this
> web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser or
the
> style sheet failed to load.</span>
>
>
> so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets served
> without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
problem
> with the server.
>
> In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
..warning
> class thingy was all mine ;-)
>
> I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot easier!
>
> Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
>
>
>

of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated 2%, I
think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.

I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason that bugs
just love the bug-zapper ;-)

btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page into a
table and id the <td> tags.
but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)

"Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Chris,
>
> As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web site
that
> basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical browser
> they are using.
>
> Why discriminate?
>
> I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors, since
> the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most likely
> will move on to another web site and never bother to return. Remember you
> only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has what
they
> are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
>
> --
>
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> ==============================================
> To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I
might
> > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why it
> > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them
with
> > the alert box on every page, etc.
> >
> > I think I came up with a good solution:
> >
> > using the @import rule like so:
> > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > will block only nn.
> >
> > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it
just
> > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and usable,
> > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so
> ugly,
> > so here is what I came up with:
> >
> > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > .warning{
> > display: none;
> > }
> >
> > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put
this:
> >
> > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version of
> this
> > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser or
> the
> > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> >
> >
> > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets served
> > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
> problem
> > with the server.
> >
> > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> .warning
> > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> >
> > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot easier!
> >
> > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> >
> >
> >
>
>

I've found that if you use CSS-P with absoulute values (i.e. px) instead of
relative (%, em) you can still come up with a usable positioned layout for
NS4. You'll need to do some @import css filtering, but it can be made to
work.

I'll stay off the "Let NS4 die" soapbox today. I think Thomas is tired of
watching me wave that banner. :-)

--
Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP

"chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:ugY$(E-Mail Removed)...
> of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated 2%, I
> think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.
>
> I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason that
bugs
> just love the bug-zapper ;-)
>
> btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page into a
> table and id the <td> tags.
> but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)
>
> "Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Chris,
> >
> > As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web site
> that
> > basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical
browser
> > they are using.
> >
> > Why discriminate?
> >
> > I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors,
since
> > the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most likely
> > will move on to another web site and never bother to return. Remember
you
> > only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has what
> they
> > are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
> >
> > --
> >
> > ==============================================
> > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> > http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> > FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> > MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> > ==============================================
> > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> >
> > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I
> might
> > > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why
it
> > > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them
> with
> > > the alert box on every page, etc.
> > >
> > > I think I came up with a good solution:
> > >
> > > using the @import rule like so:
> > > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > > will block only nn.
> > >
> > > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it
> just
> > > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and
usable,
> > > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so
> > ugly,
> > > so here is what I came up with:
> > >
> > > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > > .warning{
> > > display: none;
> > > }
> > >
> > > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put
> this:
> > >
> > > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version
of
> > this
> > > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser
or
> > the
> > > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> > >
> > >
> > > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets
served
> > > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
> > problem
> > > with the server.
> > >
> > > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> > .warning
> > > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> > >
> > > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot
easier!
> > >
> > > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

The only time I don't see an issue with developing web site with all of the
latest technologies is when working within a intranet environment where the
browser of choice has be defined as a corporate standard, etc.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"Jack Brewster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've found that if you use CSS-P with absoulute values (i.e. px) instead
of
> relative (%, em) you can still come up with a usable positioned layout for
> NS4. You'll need to do some @import css filtering, but it can be made to
> work.
>
> I'll stay off the "Let NS4 die" soapbox today. I think Thomas is tired of
> watching me wave that banner. :-)
>
> --
> Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ugY$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated 2%, I
> > think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.
> >
> > I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason that
> bugs
> > just love the bug-zapper ;-)
> >
> > btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page into a
> > table and id the <td> tags.
> > but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)
> >
> > "Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web
site
> > that
> > > basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical
> browser
> > > they are using.
> > >
> > > Why discriminate?
> > >
> > > I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors,
> since
> > > the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most
likely
> > > will move on to another web site and never bother to return. Remember
> you
> > > only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has what
> > they
> > > are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ==============================================
> > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> > > http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> > > FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> > > MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> > > ==============================================
> > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> > >
> > > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I
> > might
> > > > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why
> it
> > > > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them
> > with
> > > > the alert box on every page, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I think I came up with a good solution:
> > > >
> > > > using the @import rule like so:
> > > > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > > > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > > > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > > > will block only nn.
> > > >
> > > > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it
> > just
> > > > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and
> usable,
> > > > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's
so
> > > ugly,
> > > > so here is what I came up with:
> > > >
> > > > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > > > .warning{
> > > > display: none;
> > > > }
> > > >
> > > > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put
> > this:
> > > >
> > > > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version
> of
> > > this
> > > > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser
> or
> > > the
> > > > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets
> served
> > > > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
> > > problem
> > > > with the server.
> > > >
> > > > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> > > .warning
> > > > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> > > >
> > > > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot
> easier!
> > > >
> > > > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

but the warning trick, it's cool. I also noticed that when I was browsing
the different pages here:
http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/
that occasionally a style sheet failed to load. I'm sure that without the
nn issue, a certain number of people with "good" browsers will fail to get
the sheet. I think it's a good idea to put something like this on every
page that relies on an external style sheet, that way when something
inevitably goes wrong it doesn't look like you've got an unformatted site
because you like that sort of thing.
IMHO
"Jack Brewster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've found that if you use CSS-P with absoulute values (i.e. px) instead
of
> relative (%, em) you can still come up with a usable positioned layout for
> NS4. You'll need to do some @import css filtering, but it can be made to
> work.
>
> I'll stay off the "Let NS4 die" soapbox today. I think Thomas is tired of
> watching me wave that banner. :-)
>
> --
> Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:ugY$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated 2%, I
> > think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.
> >
> > I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason that
> bugs
> > just love the bug-zapper ;-)
> >
> > btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page into a
> > table and id the <td> tags.
> > but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)
> >
> > "Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Chris,
> > >
> > > As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web
site
> > that
> > > basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical
> browser
> > > they are using.
> > >
> > > Why discriminate?
> > >
> > > I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors,
> since
> > > the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most
likely
> > > will move on to another web site and never bother to return. Remember
> you
> > > only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has what
> > they
> > > are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > ==============================================
> > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> > > http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> > > FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> > > MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> > > ==============================================
> > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> > >
> > > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I
> > might
> > > > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why
> it
> > > > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them
> > with
> > > > the alert box on every page, etc.
> > > >
> > > > I think I came up with a good solution:
> > > >
> > > > using the @import rule like so:
> > > > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > > > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > > > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > > > will block only nn.
> > > >
> > > > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it
> > just
> > > > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and
> usable,
> > > > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's
so
> > > ugly,
> > > > so here is what I came up with:
> > > >
> > > > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > > > .warning{
> > > > display: none;
> > > > }
> > > >
> > > > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put
> > this:
> > > >
> > > > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version
> of
> > > this
> > > > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser
> or
> > > the
> > > > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets
> served
> > > > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
> > > problem
> > > > with the server.
> > > >
> > > > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> > > .warning
> > > > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> > > >
> > > > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot
> easier!
> > > >
> > > > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Chris,
Can you use it to load different style sheets??
One that is nn compatible for nn
and one that is IE compatible for IE??
imho that would be great.!!
--
using 2k PRO but....95isalive
This site is best viewed............
........................with a computer

"chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> but the warning trick, it's cool. I also noticed that when I was browsing
> the different pages here:
> http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/
> that occasionally a style sheet failed to load. I'm sure that without the
> nn issue, a certain number of people with "good" browsers will fail to get
> the sheet. I think it's a good idea to put something like this on every
> page that relies on an external style sheet, that way when something
> inevitably goes wrong it doesn't look like you've got an unformatted site
> because you like that sort of thing.
> IMHO
> "Jack Brewster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I've found that if you use CSS-P with absoulute values (i.e. px) instead
> of
> > relative (%, em) you can still come up with a usable positioned layout
for
> > NS4. You'll need to do some @import css filtering, but it can be made
to
> > work.
> >
> > I'll stay off the "Let NS4 die" soapbox today. I think Thomas is tired
of
> > watching me wave that banner. :-)
> >
> > --
> > Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP
> >
> > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:ugY$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated 2%,
I
> > > think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.
> > >
> > > I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason that
> > bugs
> > > just love the bug-zapper ;-)
> > >
> > > btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page into
a
> > > table and id the <td> tags.
> > > but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)
> > >
> > > "Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Chris,
> > > >
> > > > As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web
> site
> > > that
> > > > basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical
> > browser
> > > > they are using.
> > > >
> > > > Why discriminate?
> > > >
> > > > I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site visitors,
> > since
> > > > the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most
> likely
> > > > will move on to another web site and never bother to return.
Remember
> > you
> > > > only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has
what
> > > they
> > > > are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > >
> > > > ==============================================
> > > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> > > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> > > > http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> > > > FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> > > > MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> > > > ==============================================
> > > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> > > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> > > >
> > > > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how
I
> > > might
> > > > > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people
why
> > it
> > > > > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit
them
> > > with
> > > > > the alert box on every page, etc.
> > > > >
> > > > > I think I came up with a good solution:
> > > > >
> > > > > using the @import rule like so:
> > > > > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > > > > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > > > > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > > > > will block only nn.
> > > > >
> > > > > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x
it
> > > just
> > > > > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and
> > usable,
> > > > > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY
it's
> so
> > > > ugly,
> > > > > so here is what I came up with:
> > > > >
> > > > > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > > > > .warning{
> > > > > display: none;
> > > > > }
> > > > >
> > > > > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page)
put
> > > this:
> > > > >
> > > > > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted
version
> > of
> > > > this
> > > > > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old
browser
> > or
> > > > the
> > > > > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets
> > served
> > > > > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a
technical
> > > > problem
> > > > > with the server.
> > > > >
> > > > > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> > > > .warning
> > > > > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> > > > >
> > > > > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot
> > easier!
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

I think so. I'm not sure exactly how but I'm delving into the @ rules.
apparently you can specify different sheets for different media like print,
screen, mobile, etc.
If I figure out how I'll let you know. Maybe someone will be kind enough to
post the answer ;-)

"Steve Easton" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Chris,
> Can you use it to load different style sheets??
> One that is nn compatible for nn
> and one that is IE compatible for IE??
> imho that would be great.!!
> --
> using 2k PRO but....95isalive
> This site is best viewed............
> .......................with a computer
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > but the warning trick, it's cool. I also noticed that when I was
browsing
> > the different pages here:
> > http://www.mezzoblue.com/zengarden/alldesigns/
> > that occasionally a style sheet failed to load. I'm sure that without
the
> > nn issue, a certain number of people with "good" browsers will fail to
get
> > the sheet. I think it's a good idea to put something like this on every
> > page that relies on an external style sheet, that way when something
> > inevitably goes wrong it doesn't look like you've got an unformatted
site
> > because you like that sort of thing.
> > IMHO
> > "Jack Brewster" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > I've found that if you use CSS-P with absoulute values (i.e. px)
instead
> > of
> > > relative (%, em) you can still come up with a usable positioned layout
> for
> > > NS4. You'll need to do some @import css filtering, but it can be made
> to
> > > work.
> > >
> > > I'll stay off the "Let NS4 die" soapbox today. I think Thomas is
tired
> of
> > > watching me wave that banner. :-)
> > >
> > > --
> > > Jack Brewster - Microsoft FrontPage MVP
> > >
> > > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:ugY$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > of course you're right but with nn 4.x accounting for an estimated
2%,
> I
> > > > think my little warning trick is more than they deserve.
> > > >
> > > > I don't know why I'm drawn to the .css (p), maybe the same reason
that
> > > bugs
> > > > just love the bug-zapper ;-)
> > > >
> > > > btw, it'd be a lot easier and more stable to just smack the page
into
> a
> > > > table and id the <td> tags.
> > > > but then it wouldn't be -P ;-)
> > > >
> > > > "Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > Chris,
> > > > >
> > > > > As a web developer there is no reason that you can not build a web
> > site
> > > > that
> > > > > basically looks the same for all users, not matter which graphical
> > > browser
> > > > > they are using.
> > > > >
> > > > > Why discriminate?
> > > > >
> > > > > I think as a web developer/site owner, you will loose site
visitors,
> > > since
> > > > > the visitor's first impression would be one of negative, and most
> > likely
> > > > > will move on to another web site and never bother to return.
> Remember
> > > you
> > > > > only have a few seconds to the impress the user that the site has
> what
> > > > they
> > > > > are looking for, so you need to use it wisely.
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > >
> > > > > ==============================================
> > > > > Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> > > > > WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> > > > > http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> > > > > FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> > > > > MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> > > > > ==============================================
> > > > > To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support
see:
> > > > > http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
> > > > >
> > > > > "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > > > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about
how
> I
> > > > might
> > > > > > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people
> why
> > > it
> > > > > > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit
> them
> > > > with
> > > > > > the alert box on every page, etc.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think I came up with a good solution:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > using the @import rule like so:
> > > > > > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > > > > > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > > > > > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > > > > > will block only nn.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with
nn4.x
> it
> > > > just
> > > > > > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and
> > > usable,
> > > > > > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY
> it's
> > so
> > > > > ugly,
> > > > > > so here is what I came up with:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > > > > > .warning{
> > > > > > display: none;
> > > > > > }
> > > > > >
> > > > > > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page)
> put
> > > > this:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted
> version
> > > of
> > > > > this
> > > > > > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old
> browser
> > > or
> > > > > the
> > > > > > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets
> > > served
> > > > > > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a
> technical
> > > > > problem
> > > > > > with the server.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but
the
> > > > > .warning
> > > > > > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot
> > > easier!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>

Chris,
or another way to hide styles from NN4 is to use double comments. For
example -
<style type="text/css">
#nn4{
color:red
}
#nn4{
/*/*/display:none/* */
}
</style>
<div id="nn4"> You have Netscape 4</div>

Only NN4 users would see the div - all other browsers will read the
display:none. I find this easier than using @import - but its personal
preference


--
Jon
Microsoft MVP - FP


"chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I might
> use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why it
> looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them with
> the alert box on every page, etc.
>
> I think I came up with a good solution:
>
> using the @import rule like so:
> <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> will block only nn.
>
> so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it just
> serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and usable,
> though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so
ugly,
> so here is what I came up with:
>
> on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> .warning{
> display: none;
> }
>
> and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put this:
>
> <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version of
this
> web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser or
the
> style sheet failed to load.</span>
>
>
> so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets served
> without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
problem
> with the server.
>
> In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
..warning
> class thingy was all mine ;-)
>
> I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot easier!
>
> Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
>
>
>

that's very cool. the reason I wanted to hide it all from the 4.x versions
is because it looked so bad it's actually better with them not getting
anything. ;-), but that tip got dragged to the "tips folder".

now, if there was only a way you could make a div display it's content
(center, middle) like a table cell, that'd be just what I need.

"jon spivey" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:#(E-Mail Removed)...
> Chris,
> or another way to hide styles from NN4 is to use double comments. For
> example -
> <style type="text/css">
> #nn4{
> color:red
> }
> #nn4{
> /*/*/display:none/* */
> }
> </style>
> <div id="nn4"> You have Netscape 4</div>
>
> Only NN4 users would see the div - all other browsers will read the
> display:none. I find this easier than using @import - but its personal
> preference
>
>
> --
> Jon
> Microsoft MVP - FP
>
>
> "chris leeds" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > I am currently working on a .css layout and was thinking about how I
might
> > use a browser detection script and a pop-up to tell nn4.x people why it
> > looks so crappy but it'd have to have a cookie so it didn't hit them
with
> > the alert box on every page, etc.
> >
> > I think I came up with a good solution:
> >
> > using the @import rule like so:
> > <style type="text/css"> @import "1.css"; </style>
> > will block nn4.x AND ie4, using it like this:
> > <style type="text/css"> @import (1.css); </style>
> > will block only nn.
> >
> > so that's got me to a point where when I view the page with nn4.x it
just
> > serves a non-css page. which is fine. it's still readable and usable,
> > though ugly but it didn't solve my problem of telling them WHY it's so
> ugly,
> > so here is what I came up with:
> >
> > on my style sheet I made a class called .warning:
> > .warning{
> > display: none;
> > }
> >
> > and just after the body tag (before everything else on the page) put
this:
> >
> > <span class="warning">WARNING: You're seeing an unformatted version of
> this
> > web. The reason for this is you are either using a very old browser or
> the
> > style sheet failed to load.</span>
> >
> >
> > so what you've got is a warning that only shows if the page gets served
> > without the style sheet, either due to an old browser or a technical
> problem
> > with the server.
> >
> > In all fairness I picked up the @import trick from a book, but the
> .warning
> > class thingy was all mine ;-)
> >
> > I think it's a better answer than JavaScript and it's sure a lot easier!
> >
> > Hope someone else can benefit from the trick.
> >
> >
> >
>
>