is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run internet
application 24/5?
Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from outlet).
Possible hardware issues, wear?

On 9/27/2011 7:51 AM, Grinder wrote:
> On 9/27/2011 9:39 AM, dinoz wrote:
>> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
>> internet application 24/5?
>> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
>> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear?
>
> Notebooks are, in general, more prone to heat issues...
>
> I have no epidemiology to back me up, but it's been my anecdotal
> experience that notebook motherboard failure is significantly more
> common than for desktops. That may be a function of the heat issue.

I've seen old notebooks repurposed as webservers etc running 24/7, but
those were usually sitting on some kind of riser with added airflow for
cooling.



--
"**** this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me mother****er?"
Jim “Dandy� Mangrum

dinoz wrote:
> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
> internet application 24/5?
> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear?

I've been running mine since yesterday, with the battery removed and
operating from the wall adapter, and the fan doesn't seem to be
running during downloading.

If you were using a gaming notebook (powerful graphics), then the
fan on that might be operating most of the time. Over a period of
three years or so, the fan could wear out.

In terms of temperature effects:

1) Higher temperatures are bad for electrolytic capacitors.

2) By calculation, a high temperature over a long period of time,
should affect reliability of some of the chips (Arrhenius modeling).
But in practice, on a couple of occasions, I see no field data to
back this up. The model is quite pessimistic. The chips do not
appear to be "dropping like flies".

3) A real effect, is solder ball reliability on large ball grid
array chips. The GPU has such an array on the bottom. The chipset
chips are pretty large too. What affects them, is temperature cycling.
For example, if you have the gaming laptop, and play a game, stop and read
your email, play a game, the GPU temperature might go from 60C to 110C back
to 60C over and over again. The thermal coefficient of expansion of the
materials, places stress on the solder balls, and sometimes a solder joint
will snap. This has been mitigated to some extent, by the usage of underfill.

If the laptop runs cool enough, when the screen is off, to not use the fan,
you should be in pretty good shape. Chances are, temperature variation won't
be as large as if you were gaming and reading email alternately. And by not
using the GPU, at least for modern GPU chips, they can save a fair bit of
power when down-clocked.

I've heard of one corner of a laptop "melting", but it was while the
unit was unattended and doing something like "Folding @ Home" 100% CPU
program. Downloading isn't nearly as CPU intensive, so things aren't
likely to get hot enough to melt.

Paul

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:j5tdct$3gk$(E-Mail Removed)...
> dinoz wrote:
>> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
>> internet application 24/5?
>> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
>> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear?
>
> I've been running mine since yesterday, with the battery removed and
> operating from the wall adapter, and the fan doesn't seem to be
> running during downloading.
>
> If you were using a gaming notebook (powerful graphics), then the
> fan on that might be operating most of the time. Over a period of
> three years or so, the fan could wear out.
>
> In terms of temperature effects:
>
> 1) Higher temperatures are bad for electrolytic capacitors.
>
> 2) By calculation, a high temperature over a long period of time,
> should affect reliability of some of the chips (Arrhenius modeling).
> But in practice, on a couple of occasions, I see no field data to
> back this up. The model is quite pessimistic. The chips do not
> appear to be "dropping like flies".
>
> 3) A real effect, is solder ball reliability on large ball grid
> array chips. The GPU has such an array on the bottom. The chipset
> chips are pretty large too. What affects them, is temperature cycling.
> For example, if you have the gaming laptop, and play a game, stop and
> read
> your email, play a game, the GPU temperature might go from 60C to 110C
> back
> to 60C over and over again. The thermal coefficient of expansion of the
> materials, places stress on the solder balls, and sometimes a solder
> joint
> will snap. This has been mitigated to some extent, by the usage of
> underfill.
>
> If the laptop runs cool enough, when the screen is off, to not use the
> fan,
> you should be in pretty good shape. Chances are, temperature variation
> won't
> be as large as if you were gaming and reading email alternately. And by
> not
> using the GPU, at least for modern GPU chips, they can save a fair bit of
> power when down-clocked.
>
> I've heard of one corner of a laptop "melting", but it was while the
> unit was unattended and doing something like "Folding @ Home" 100% CPU
> program. Downloading isn't nearly as CPU intensive, so things aren't
> likely to get hot enough to melt.
>
> Paul
-------
not gaming notebook, just run MetaTrader4 application to monitor market
information.

Regards

"Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:j5v6ht$jb$(E-Mail Removed)...
> dinoz wrote:
>>
>> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
>> news:j5tdct$3gk$(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> dinoz wrote:
>>>> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
>>>> internet application 24/5?
>>>> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
>>>> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear?
>>>
>>> I've been running mine since yesterday, with the battery removed and
>>> operating from the wall adapter, and the fan doesn't seem to be
>>> running during downloading.
>>>
>>> If you were using a gaming notebook (powerful graphics), then the
>>> fan on that might be operating most of the time. Over a period of
>>> three years or so, the fan could wear out.
>>>
>>> In terms of temperature effects:
>>>
>>> 1) Higher temperatures are bad for electrolytic capacitors.
>>>
>>> 2) By calculation, a high temperature over a long period of time,
>>> should affect reliability of some of the chips (Arrhenius modeling).
>>> But in practice, on a couple of occasions, I see no field data to
>>> back this up. The model is quite pessimistic. The chips do not
>>> appear to be "dropping like flies".
>>>
>>> 3) A real effect, is solder ball reliability on large ball grid
>>> array chips. The GPU has such an array on the bottom. The chipset
>>> chips are pretty large too. What affects them, is temperature
>>> cycling.
>>> For example, if you have the gaming laptop, and play a game, stop and
>>> read
>>> your email, play a game, the GPU temperature might go from 60C to
>>> 110C back
>>> to 60C over and over again. The thermal coefficient of expansion of
>>> the
>>> materials, places stress on the solder balls, and sometimes a solder
>>> joint
>>> will snap. This has been mitigated to some extent, by the usage of
>>> underfill.
>>>
>>> If the laptop runs cool enough, when the screen is off, to not use the
>>> fan,
>>> you should be in pretty good shape. Chances are, temperature variation
>>> won't
>>> be as large as if you were gaming and reading email alternately. And by
>>> not
>>> using the GPU, at least for modern GPU chips, they can save a fair bit
>>> of
>>> power when down-clocked.
>>>
>>> I've heard of one corner of a laptop "melting", but it was while the
>>> unit was unattended and doing something like "Folding @ Home" 100% CPU
>>> program. Downloading isn't nearly as CPU intensive, so things aren't
>>> likely to get hot enough to melt.
>>>
>>> Paul
>> -------
>> not gaming notebook, just run MetaTrader4 application to monitor market
>> information.
>>
>> Regards
>
> So then the CPU runs 100% all the time ? If so, on my laptop, that would
> cause the fan to run maybe 30% of the time. And like any computer, the
> fan can become worn.
>
> In some situations, the disk drive can be parked while the machine is
> idle. If the Metatrader application makes a lot of references to files
> on the hard drive, that can increase the amount of work required of the
> hard drive.
>
> As long as you can find a replacement fan, or a replacement hard drive
> when
> needed, I don't see a reason to worry.
>
> The battery should be unplugged while you're doing this. In terms of
> preserving battery life, it should be stored with about 50% charge on it.
> Every once in a while (every couple months), you should install the
> battery for a short while, and verify it is still charged to 50%
> or so. The battery will not last forever in any case, so maintaining
> the battery in this way, will only increase it's life by a percentage.
>
> Another option would be an SSD drive. Such a kind of hard drive,
> has no rotating parts. It can be read from, as much as desired.
> Where the lifetime is limited, is in terms of total data writes
> to the drive. If the Metatrader program doesn't write too many
> gigabytes of data per day, it might make a better kind of hard
> drive for this usage, than the regular rotating hard drive type.
>
> Paul
-------

No Metatrader terminal not use much CPU, and dont write data on hard drive,
only program settings.

Regards

dinoz wrote:
>
> "Paul" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:j5tdct$3gk$(E-Mail Removed)...
>> dinoz wrote:
>>> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
>>> internet application 24/5?
>>> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
>>> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear?
>>
>> I've been running mine since yesterday, with the battery removed and
>> operating from the wall adapter, and the fan doesn't seem to be
>> running during downloading.
>>
>> If you were using a gaming notebook (powerful graphics), then the
>> fan on that might be operating most of the time. Over a period of
>> three years or so, the fan could wear out.
>>
>> In terms of temperature effects:
>>
>> 1) Higher temperatures are bad for electrolytic capacitors.
>>
>> 2) By calculation, a high temperature over a long period of time,
>> should affect reliability of some of the chips (Arrhenius modeling).
>> But in practice, on a couple of occasions, I see no field data to
>> back this up. The model is quite pessimistic. The chips do not
>> appear to be "dropping like flies".
>>
>> 3) A real effect, is solder ball reliability on large ball grid
>> array chips. The GPU has such an array on the bottom. The chipset
>> chips are pretty large too. What affects them, is temperature cycling.
>> For example, if you have the gaming laptop, and play a game, stop
>> and read
>> your email, play a game, the GPU temperature might go from 60C to
>> 110C back
>> to 60C over and over again. The thermal coefficient of expansion of
>> the
>> materials, places stress on the solder balls, and sometimes a
>> solder joint
>> will snap. This has been mitigated to some extent, by the usage of
>> underfill.
>>
>> If the laptop runs cool enough, when the screen is off, to not use the
>> fan,
>> you should be in pretty good shape. Chances are, temperature variation
>> won't
>> be as large as if you were gaming and reading email alternately. And
>> by not
>> using the GPU, at least for modern GPU chips, they can save a fair bit of
>> power when down-clocked.
>>
>> I've heard of one corner of a laptop "melting", but it was while the
>> unit was unattended and doing something like "Folding @ Home" 100% CPU
>> program. Downloading isn't nearly as CPU intensive, so things aren't
>> likely to get hot enough to melt.
>>
>> Paul
> -------
> not gaming notebook, just run MetaTrader4 application to monitor market
> information.
>
> Regards

So then the CPU runs 100% all the time ? If so, on my laptop, that would
cause the fan to run maybe 30% of the time. And like any computer, the
fan can become worn.

In some situations, the disk drive can be parked while the machine is
idle. If the Metatrader application makes a lot of references to files
on the hard drive, that can increase the amount of work required of the
hard drive.

As long as you can find a replacement fan, or a replacement hard drive when
needed, I don't see a reason to worry.

The battery should be unplugged while you're doing this. In terms of
preserving battery life, it should be stored with about 50% charge on it.
Every once in a while (every couple months), you should install the
battery for a short while, and verify it is still charged to 50%
or so. The battery will not last forever in any case, so maintaining
the battery in this way, will only increase it's life by a percentage.

Another option would be an SSD drive. Such a kind of hard drive,
has no rotating parts. It can be read from, as much as desired.
Where the lifetime is limited, is in terms of total data writes
to the drive. If the Metatrader program doesn't write too many
gigabytes of data per day, it might make a better kind of hard
drive for this usage, than the regular rotating hard drive type.

Paul

On 9/28/2011 5:06 AM, dinoz wrote:
> is standard notebook suitable for continuous working mode, say run
> internet application 24/5?
> Or even 6-7 hours continuous mode without turn off? (however, from
> outlet). Possible hardware issues, wear? -------

> not gaming notebook, just run MetaTrader4 application to monitor market
> information.

I'd say you should be OK for this with a few precautions:

1) Clean out the dust in the laptop regularly.

If there aren't specific dust cleaning instructions for your laptop,
there are many generic ways posted on the Internet. Search "clean dust
out of laptop".

2) Make sure that there is unobstructed airflow around it, and
specifically that any intake and exhaust ports/grills are clear. It's
best if the laptop is raised up at least ½ inch/12mm from the shelf/desk
with suitable spacers.

3) Most laptops use the keyboard area as a heat radiator (to some
degree), so blocking the lid/screen up about 15-20° helps.

--
"**** this is it, all the pieces do fit.
We're like that crazy old man jumping
out of the alleyway with a baseball bat,
saying, "Remember me mother****er?"
Jim “Dandy� Mangrum