I've had enough time this morning to come to some preliminary
conclusions that I'd like to share re these 2 apps.

First off, though, re "wysiwyg": either the term is being misused or
I have not understood it 100%. It always seemed to me, from the time
of the decade change 80s->90s, that wysiwyg meant no more pages of
coding and we got real-time results from anything input in the
computer. So instead of <b>title</b>, we'd type ^b with the title
selected and that was that. However, since so many HTML editors are
claiming to be wysiwyg atually don't behave in this way, I had a
moment's doubt as to what I understood wysiwyg to be. However, since
have come to believe that developers are merely misusing the term.

A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
because they have a preview mode. One still has to hard-code, so to
me, that is _not_ wysiwyg 100%. No editing can be done in that preview
mode, either, and that is the key!

So, I will use the term wysiwyg here in the way it is meant to be
used, in my opinion. User input produces an effect that is
instantaneously seen on the screen and that screen is what the user
works with, not a separate preview one.

With that definition, both TSW Webcoder and ActualDrawing, then, are
wysiwyg. You can make changes directly on an html document and you
can see the page you are working on as it would look if it were in
your browser.

However, there the similarity ends. They are worlds apart.

p.s., ActualDrawing, so very kindly provided by Tiger this morning in
ABF is not available on the net (thank you once again, Tiger!). I did
a search for the file, ActDrwStp_fr.exe, and no hits came up for me at
all in google. So perhaps it's okay that it doesn't come up to
scratch as it would only be available I guess by sharing in this
manner, anyway. It has a few other problems which I go over below
just so that you don't just get a message here that says: it doesn't
work well, so don't bother. Anyone can judge for themselves based on
the points below.

*******************************************************

ActualDrawing v4.1 (no URL)
(below seems true of all versions tried; 4 in total incl this one)

- cannot open all saved html files, for some reason
- No drag-'n-drop support
- files that _do_ open, more often than not display incorrectly and
even have parts missing (which leads me to believe it does not support
CSS very well, if at all. Even true of latest version, btw, I found).
- editing not very easy to do, paragraphs of text are treated like
blocks - i.e., like a graphic in word, it's blocked around - so text
is not always easy to modify. If you add/remove too much, box must be
re-sized.
- not available on the net, anyway

-------------------------------------------

TSW Webcoder 4 (http://www.tsware.net/download.php)

- so far it has opened all files I have tried
- drag-'n-drop supported when interface is in the EDIT tab so I just
dropped the html files in. Each doct. creates tab at the bottom so
very easy to have more than one open that you can toggle to.
- editing is as easy as any worprocessor like WordPerfect or Word.
- it is available on the net even if registerware.
- the options screen is quite comprehensive; exactly the type I like.
All sorts of things can be set in it incl. the folder the app defaults
to. Nice.
- no unwanted code put into documents so far even though it warns of
possibility. Code is clean.

Only drawback found so far is that there are a lot of error codes that
say app may shut down, but it generally doesn't so I don't worry.

Also, it doesn't like the backspace key and brings up an error box.
So I used the cursor to back up and then hit delete, instead.

-------------------------------------------

All in all, TSW Webcoder looks like a winner. It'll get seriously
tested over next few days as I finally can clean up some saved files
that I've collected over last 2 years that I recently was able to
index. I foresee only small amount of editing per file, perhaps, but
large volume of files in total. Just the sort of job one needs a
wysiwyg editor for.

TSW Webcoder may very well be a pricelessware 2005 candidate if it
continues to perform as it has and I see no serious glitches come up
as I start doing other tasks with it. (Thank you, JT, for recommending
this app!).

Will report back.

Thanks to everyone who contributed help with this! Cheers!

fitwell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

> A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
> have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
> because they have a preview mode.

Good write-up. Glad someone finally exposed the WYSIWYG naming con. And
based on your write-up, I'm going to check out TSW Webcoder. That's one
that I've missed.

--
Cheers,
jason

fitwell wrote:

> TSW Webcoder 4 (http://www.tsware.net/download.php)
>
> - it is available on the net even if registerware.

So you're saying you can try it before registering? It's letting me
download, but I hope it doesn't hit me for a password after installing.

--
Cheers,
jason

On 22 Nov 2003 17:36:27 GMT, jason <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>fitwell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
>> have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
>> because they have a preview mode.
>
>Good write-up. Glad someone finally exposed the WYSIWYG naming con. And
>based on your write-up, I'm going to check out TSW Webcoder. That's one
>that I've missed.

Great, Jason! It'll be good to see what others think. I haven't used
it enough for people to base its value on my opinion alone, but if
several people give it a try and also find it good esp. over long
term, then it'll have passed the test. D

On 22 Nov 2003 17:45:00 GMT, jason <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>fitwell wrote:
>
>> TSW Webcoder 4 (http://www.tsware.net/download.php)
>>
>> - it is available on the net even if registerware.
>
>So you're saying you can try it before registering? It's letting me
>download, but I hope it doesn't hit me for a password after installing.

No, you _can_ most definitely try it out. You just get a 6 second
delay screen before you can use the app. Also, forgot to mention, it
seems you could use as is that way; it's not crippleware or anything.
You'd just live with that 6-second nag screen forever. I hate delay
with a passion, so I accepted registering.

Sorry 'bout that, what I said could and was misinterpreted. My fault.
D

fitwell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
news:(E-Mail Removed):

<snip>

> A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
> have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
> because they have a preview mode. One still has to hard-code, so to
> me, that is _not_ wysiwyg 100%. No editing can be done in that preview
> mode, either, and that is the key!

> -------------------------------------------
>
> TSW Webcoder 4 (http://www.tsware.net/download.php)
>
> - so far it has opened all files I have tried
> - drag-'n-drop supported when interface is in the EDIT tab so I just
> dropped the html files in. Each doct. creates tab at the bottom so
> very easy to have more than one open that you can toggle to.
> - editing is as easy as any worprocessor like WordPerfect or Word.
> - it is available on the net even if registerware.
> - the options screen is quite comprehensive; exactly the type I like.
> All sorts of things can be set in it incl. the folder the app defaults
> to. Nice.
> - no unwanted code put into documents so far even though it warns of
> possibility. Code is clean.
>
> Only drawback found so far is that there are a lot of error codes that
> say app may shut down, but it generally doesn't so I don't worry.
>
> Also, it doesn't like the backspace key and brings up an error box.
> So I used the cursor to back up and then hit delete, instead.
>
<snip>

I downloaded Webcoder and played around with it at home. It does a very
good job...too bad no word wrap! Also, I did not have any of the error
problems you reported on my Win2K box.

In regards to "true" WYSIWYG, FPE is just as you describe. It looks
kinda like MS Word and you make all your changes like a word processor.
You can move to a code view if you want, but it produces some UGLY code.
I usually have a lot of cleaning to do.

Anyhoo...I plan on keeping webcoder to do WYSIWYG work if I need to.
Thanx for the tips.

I also found that the other program called home (4.3 version) and I do
not like that.

--
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
El Gee

Did you hear the one about the dyslexic, agnostic, insomniac?
He would stay up late every night and wonder if there was a dog.
Remove yourhat to reply ... but it
may take a while. Best to go to www (dot) mistergeek (dot) com and
reply from there.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

On 22 Nov 2003 18:22:36 GMT, El Gee <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>fitwell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>news:(E-Mail Removed):
>
><snip>
>
>> A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
>> have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
>> because they have a preview mode. One still has to hard-code, so to
>> me, that is _not_ wysiwyg 100%. No editing can be done in that preview
>> mode, either, and that is the key!
>
>> -------------------------------------------
>>
>> TSW Webcoder 4 (http://www.tsware.net/download.php)
>>
>> - so far it has opened all files I have tried
>> - drag-'n-drop supported when interface is in the EDIT tab so I just
>> dropped the html files in. Each doct. creates tab at the bottom so
>> very easy to have more than one open that you can toggle to.
>> - editing is as easy as any worprocessor like WordPerfect or Word.
>> - it is available on the net even if registerware.
>> - the options screen is quite comprehensive; exactly the type I like.
>> All sorts of things can be set in it incl. the folder the app defaults
>> to. Nice.
>> - no unwanted code put into documents so far even though it warns of
>> possibility. Code is clean.
>>
>> Only drawback found so far is that there are a lot of error codes that
>> say app may shut down, but it generally doesn't so I don't worry.
>>
>> Also, it doesn't like the backspace key and brings up an error box.
>> So I used the cursor to back up and then hit delete, instead.
>>
><snip>
>
>I downloaded Webcoder and played around with it at home. It does a very
>good job...too bad no word wrap! Also, I did not have any of the error
>problems you reported on my Win2K box.

Well, I have word wrap just fine, so it's a puzzle. However, I'd be
using it primarily in QUICKEDIT mode, anway, so no problems for me.

>
>In regards to "true" WYSIWYG, FPE is just as you describe. It looks
>kinda like MS Word and you make all your changes like a word processor.
>You can move to a code view if you want, but it produces some UGLY code.
> I usually have a lot of cleaning to do.

Didn't happen to me at all, as I mentioned, but it's good to know.
But I'm not doing anything complicated, I need wysiwig strictly for
text editing/formatting. For the rest I'd probably do it hardcode-way
for precision anyway since I know how to do things that way that I'd
have to stop and figure out in TSW.

>Anyhoo...I plan on keeping webcoder to do WYSIWYG work if I need to.

Same here.

>Thanx for the tips.

Welcome <g>!

>I also found that the other program called home (4.3 version) and I do
>not like that.

True. But I suspect it's from wanting to ftp upload or something (?).
I just forbid it access via my firewall. It had too much else wrong
with it anyway to worry about.

Cheers!

http://www.mirageone.net/freeware/

Actual Drwaing 4.1 Free
"fitwell" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On 22 Nov 2003 17:36:27 GMT, jason <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
> >fitwell <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >> A vast majority of the html editors out there, freeware or not, that I
> >> have tried and that claim to be wysiwyg are just glorifed editors
> >> because they have a preview mode.
> >
> >Good write-up. Glad someone finally exposed the WYSIWYG naming con. And
> >based on your write-up, I'm going to check out TSW Webcoder. That's one
> >that I've missed.
>
> Great, Jason! It'll be good to see what others think. I haven't used
> it enough for people to base its value on my opinion alone, but if
> several people give it a try and also find it good esp. over long
> term, then it'll have passed the test. D
>

Thanks for the preliminary info; I downloaded it last night following
Dennis's post, and opened up one of my pages, which seemed fine.

However, the warning notices put the wind up me, and it was late, so I
didn't mess with my site, but I shall want to do some new pages for xmas,
so I'll give it a try, after your encouraging report.

Particularly good that it does clean code, although I learned a lot
cleaning up after FPE! (but it _had_ got me published)

mike r

>
>TSW Webcoder may very well be a pricelessware 2005 candidate if it
>continues to perform as it has and I see no serious glitches come up
>as I start doing other tasks with it. (Thank you, JT, for recommending
>this app!).
>
>Will report back.
>
>Thanks to everyone who contributed help with this! Cheers!
an interesting thing about the TSW site...I went there in Opera 6, and
found it was cut off at the bottom of the page....that is, Opera gave no
scroll bar. I could reduce the display size and see stuff below, but not
get to everything, including the registration box...
So, on a hunch, I switched to Mozilla and it loaded & displayed fine
and I did everything I needed to.

Opera usually has no problems, but perhaps if TSW's page is made with
TSW..(seems likely!) there might be some sort of code incompatibility,
and it bears being careful... I haven't had time to install & test it,
but hope it's a minor issue.....

thanks for the review