Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
make the cheap part?

Tony

On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
>to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
>could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
>make the cheap part?
>
>Tony

Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz Celeron *today*, and
with a one year warranty, no less.

Next question.

On Tue, 14 Feb 2006 23:01:32 -0500, daytripper wrote:

> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
>>to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
>>could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
>>make the cheap part?
>>
>>Tony
>
> Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz Celeron *today*, and
> with a one year warranty, no less.
>
> Next question.

LOL! I wuz going to sell him a sample from my M1 collection. ...I think
I still have one around somewhere. ...or maybe an 80C51FC (hey, they were
$250 each when I bought 'em). ;-)

--
Keith

"daytripper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
>>to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
>>could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
>>make the cheap part?
>>
>>Tony
>
> Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz Celeron *today*, and
> with a one year warranty, no less.

That's only until the stock runs out I imagine. The question I was asking was for high
volume commercial production.

Tony

In article <qSEIf.30304$(E-Mail Removed)>,
(E-Mail Removed) says...
>
> "daytripper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
> >
> >>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
> >>to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
> >>could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
> >>make the cheap part?
> >>
> >>Tony
> >
> > Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz Celeron *today*, and
> > with a one year warranty, no less.
>
> That's only until the stock runs out I imagine. The question I was asking was for high
> volume commercial production.

Then, no. The pins cost more than that.

--
Keith

tony wrote:
> "daytripper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
>>On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably not even VIA)
>>>to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet appliance" machine (from Walmart?)
>>>could use one of those. Can't someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and
>>>make the cheap part?
>>>
>>>Tony
>>
>>Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz Celeron *today*, and
>>with a one year warranty, no less.
>
>
> That's only until the stock runs out I imagine. The question I was asking was for high
> volume commercial production.
>
> Tony
>
>
"Yes, I think it can be easily done..." r. zimmerman

But it would have to be intel or one of their cross licensee's. Pick
your favorite old time vintage 180 nm part and build something similar
in 90 nm, being sure to get the pins down so the substrate is also
cheap. Solder directly to board to save socket cost.

The trick is finding someone to put up the millions of dollars of nre to
get the cost of the part down.

--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

Keith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> (E-Mail Removed) says...
>> "daytripper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>> > On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>> >>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably
>> >>not even VIA) to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet
>> >>appliance" machine (from Walmart?) could use one of those. Can't
>> >>someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and make the cheap part?

>> > Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz
>> > Celeron *today*, and with a one year warranty, no less.

>> That's only until the stock runs out I imagine. The question
>> I was asking was for high volume commercial production.

> Then, no. The pins cost more than that.

Why do you say that? 10c/pin? The 486 has 168 pins, and I'm
fairly certain could be produced for under $10. Use modern tech
and not bleeding-edge process, it should be clockable around 1 GHz.
I don't even think that much would be needed with decent software.

It wouldn't even come close to VIA C3, but with enough memory
it'd be enough to run a web browser appliance. A web toaster.
Buy at WalMart. Plug into cable & TV (svideo). IR kbd/trakball
& go. Calls into the mfr website for flash EEPROM updates.

After all, some of these 200 MHz ARM cellphones have browsers!

-- Robert


>

Robert Redelmeier wrote:
> Keith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
>
>>(E-Mail Removed) says...
>>
>>>"daytripper" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>>
>>>>On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 03:41:38 GMT, "tony" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably
>>>>>not even VIA) to produce a $10 or $20 processor? The "internet
>>>>>appliance" machine (from Walmart?) could use one of those. Can't
>>>>>someone go back to old technology (not 45nm!) and make the cheap part?
>
>
>>>>Heck, for $10 and free shipping you can get a new 500mhz
>>>>Celeron *today*, and with a one year warranty, no less.
>
>
>>>That's only until the stock runs out I imagine. The question
>>>I was asking was for high volume commercial production.
>
>
>
>>Then, no. The pins cost more than that.
>
>
> Why do you say that? 10c/pin? The 486 has 168 pins, and I'm
> fairly certain could be produced for under $10. Use modern tech
> and not bleeding-edge process, it should be clockable around 1 GHz.
> I don't even think that much would be needed with decent software.
>
> It wouldn't even come close to VIA C3, but with enough memory
> it'd be enough to run a web browser appliance. A web toaster.
> Buy at WalMart. Plug into cable & TV (svideo). IR kbd/trakball
> & go. Calls into the mfr website for flash EEPROM updates.
>
> After all, some of these 200 MHz ARM cellphones have browsers!
>
> -- Robert
>
>
>
Don't need pins. Put on solder bumps and solder down. Are you building
a "thin client" or a PC? And what else do you need? It would surprise
me if the parts cost of one of those Dell 299 PC boxes is over 100
bucks, but maybe that isn't what you want. What is the parts cost of a
webtv box? Isn't that what you are advocating?



--
Del Cecchi
"This post is my own and doesn’t necessarily represent IBM’s positions,
strategies or opinions.”

In article <SpxIf.30251$(E-Mail Removed)>,
tony <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>Is it possible for some company (not Intel or AMD of course, probably
>not even VIA) to produce a $10 or $20 processor?

The $100 laptop people ( http://www.laptop.org/ ) like the the
AMD Geode GX500. At least in significant volume it must be in
that pricing ballpark.
--
Jim Prescott - Computing and Networking Group (E-Mail Removed)
School of Engineering and Applied Sciences, University of Rochester, NY

Del Cecchi <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
> Robert Redelmeier wrote:
>> Keith <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in part:
>>>Then, no. The pins cost more than that.
>>
>> Why do you say that? 10c/pin? The 486 has 168 pins, and I'm
>> fairly certain could be produced for under $10. Use modern tech
>> and not bleeding-edge process, it should be clockable around 1 GHz.
>> I don't even think that much would be needed with decent software.
>>
>> It wouldn't even come close to VIA C3, but with enough memory
>> it'd be enough to run a web browser appliance. A web toaster.
>> Buy at WalMart. Plug into cable & TV (svideo). IR kbd/trakball
>> & go. Calls into the mfr website for flash EEPROM updates.
>>
>> After all, some of these 200 MHz ARM cellphones have browsers!

> Don't need pins. Put on solder bumps and solder down.

BGA is only marginally cheaper than pins. You still have to
connect chip pads with something bigger. Flip chip helps.

> Are you building a "thin client" or a PC?

Appliance PCs are more like smart clients. They're a full PC
as far as external machines are concerned. No troublesome
extra support required. No forced portals or render farms.
But with very limited local functionality.

> It would surprise me if the parts cost of one of those
> Dell 299 PC boxes is over 100 bucks,

AFIAK, MS-WinXP costs Dell ~$80, support ???. Price the parts out,
I don't think you can build for less than $150. Look at XBox1.

These toasters could be build around $100, or $50 in quantity:
No drives. Ultra cheap CPU (maybe not x86), 128 MB RAM (maybe
less), 64 MB flash video & sound, built in DOCSIS or DSL modem.
IR kbd/tb. Sealed box. Maybe with USB for expansion/drives.

> What is the parts cost of a webtv box?
> Isn't that what you are advocating?

I don't think so. AFAIK, webTV is reliant on WebTV render servers.
You're tied to them, and I don't think peope like being tied.
For those that do, AOL could give away (bundle) a customized box.

Svideo renders 640x480 surprisingly well even on NTSC TVs.
The real problem is that people may not want to browse/email in
a group.

-- Robert