Website check please, especially images1 page.

www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com

Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.

Trying something a little different.

Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.

Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
(set it and forget it), or none.

Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.

Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the pages
would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am still
waiting for this page to load:
http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders: images and
images 1.
I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages ...
you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
obvious?
Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that many
will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using Publisher,
separate the images from the text and organize these items within tables and
cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
accessible!
Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you wish!
You might want to read some of these tutorials:
http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
Eleanor

"E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Website check please, especially images1 page.
>
> www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
>
> Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
>
> Trying something a little different.
>
> Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
>
> Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> (set it and forget it), or none.
>
> Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
>
> Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

The issue you faces when creating your page basically as a image, is that
the search engines have nothing to index, so unless you do care about search
engines, this is a bad idea.

Your layout can be accomplished using nested tables. Just create a main
table with 8 rows, 1 column, then in rows 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 insert a another
single row table, with the number of columns needed for photos and text.

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Website check please, especially images1 page.
>
> www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
>
> Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
>
> Trying something a little different.
>
> Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
>
> Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> (set it and forget it), or none.
>
> Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
>
> Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

In addition to the other comments - 750px is the maximum width you can use
without causing horizontal scrolling at 8x6 resolution.

Bob Lehmann

"E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Website check please, especially images1 page.
>
> www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
>
> Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
>
> Trying something a little different.
>
> Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
>
> Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> (set it and forget it), or none.
>
> Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
>
> Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

E.T. -

Have to disagree with you. On my DSL line, Images 1 opened instantly. Maybe
there was just some net clog when you tried. Also, I downloaded one of the
images. At 227K, it certainly could be optimized more, but it's not exactly
"HUGE".

I do definitely agree with you about the font size, though. It's very tiny.

Regards,
Craig

"E. T. Culling" wrote:

> When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the pages
> would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am still
> waiting for this page to load:
> http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
> I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders: images and
> images 1.
> I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
> It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages ...
> you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
> Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
> obvious?
> Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that many
> will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using Publisher,
> separate the images from the text and organize these items within tables and
> cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
> accessible!
> Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you wish!
> You might want to read some of these tutorials:
> http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
> Eleanor
>
> "E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > Website check please, especially images1 page.
> >
> > www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
> >
> > Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
> >
> > Trying something a little different.
> >
> > Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> > as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
> >
> > Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> > Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> > (set it and forget it), or none.
> >
> > Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
> >
> > Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> > up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

227K is large for dial-up users.

--

==============================================
Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
http://www.ycoln-resources.com
FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
MS KB Quick Links, etc.
==============================================
To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp

"Craig Schiller" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> E.T. -
>
> Have to disagree with you. On my DSL line, Images 1 opened instantly.
Maybe
> there was just some net clog when you tried. Also, I downloaded one of the
> images. At 227K, it certainly could be optimized more, but it's not
exactly
> "HUGE".
>
> I do definitely agree with you about the font size, though. It's very
tiny.
>
> Regards,
> Craig
>
> "E. T. Culling" wrote:
>
> > When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the pages
> > would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am still
> > waiting for this page to load:
> > http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
> > I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders: images
and
> > images 1.
> > I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
> > It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages
....
> > you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
> > Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
> > obvious?
> > Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that
many
> > will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using
Publisher,
> > separate the images from the text and organize these items within tables
and
> > cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
> > accessible!
> > Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you wish!
> > You might want to read some of these tutorials:
> > http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
> > Eleanor
> >
> > "E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > Website check please, especially images1 page.
> > >
> > > www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
> > >
> > > Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
> > >
> > > Trying something a little different.
> > >
> > > Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> > > as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
> > >
> > > Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> > > Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> > > (set it and forget it), or none.
> > >
> > > Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
> > >
> > > Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> > > up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy
>

Agreed. But "HUGE"?

"Thomas A. Rowe" wrote:

> 227K is large for dial-up users.
>
> --
>
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> ==============================================
> To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
>
> "Craig Schiller" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > E.T. -
> >
> > Have to disagree with you. On my DSL line, Images 1 opened instantly.
> Maybe
> > there was just some net clog when you tried. Also, I downloaded one of the
> > images. At 227K, it certainly could be optimized more, but it's not
> exactly
> > "HUGE".
> >
> > I do definitely agree with you about the font size, though. It's very
> tiny.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig
> >
> > "E. T. Culling" wrote:
> >
> > > When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the pages
> > > would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am still
> > > waiting for this page to load:
> > > http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
> > > I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders: images
> and
> > > images 1.
> > > I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
> > > It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages
> ...
> > > you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
> > > Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
> > > obvious?
> > > Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that
> many
> > > will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using
> Publisher,
> > > separate the images from the text and organize these items within tables
> and
> > > cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
> > > accessible!
> > > Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you wish!
> > > You might want to read some of these tutorials:
> > > http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
> > > Eleanor
> > >
> > > "E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Website check please, especially images1 page.
> > > >
> > > > www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
> > > >
> > > > Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Trying something a little different.
> > > >
> > > > Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> > > > as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
> > > >
> > > > Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> > > > Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> > > > (set it and forget it), or none.
> > > >
> > > > Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
> > > >
> > > > Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> > > > up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy
> >

I'm on a dial up and for us 40 - 50k is the proper target page size. Web
pages will look best if images and text blocks are totally separate entities
within tables. The author should be encouraged to use better techniques
rather than imply that he'd be OK if he re-optimized these large images.
Publisher should play no roll in building web pages .... ever.
Resize/resample is an option in FP that also should never considered. It's
easy but quality will suffer every time.
I would hope that he would now choose the thumbnail route beginning with the
original images optimized properly with his image editing program. Then
Jimco Add-ins Spawn will do the trick for him: www.jimcoaddins.com
Eleanor

"Craig Schiller" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
E.T. -
Have to disagree with you. On my DSL line, Images 1 opened instantly. Maybe
there was just some net clog when you tried. Also, I downloaded one of the
images. At 227K, it certainly could be optimized more, but it's not exactly
"HUGE".
I do definitely agree with you about the font size, though. It's very tiny.
Regards,
Craig
"E. T. Culling" wrote:
When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the pages
would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am still
waiting for this page to load:
http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders: images and
images 1.
I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages ...
you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
obvious?
Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that many
will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using Publisher,
separate the images from the text and organize these items within tables and
cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
accessible!
Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you wish!
You might want to read some of these tutorials:
http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
Eleanor
"E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> Website check please, especially images1 page.
>
> www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
>
> Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
>
> Trying something a little different.
>
> Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
>
> Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> (set it and forget it), or none.
>
> Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
>
> Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be easier.......Izzy

227k is not huge, its HUMONGOUS for DSL and Cable as well.

"Thomas A. Rowe" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:%(E-Mail Removed)...
> 227K is large for dial-up users.
>
> --
>
> ==============================================
> Thomas A. Rowe (Microsoft MVP - FrontPage)
> WEBMASTER Resources(tm)
> http://www.ycoln-resources.com
> FrontPage Resources, Forums, WebCircle,
> MS KB Quick Links, etc.
> ==============================================
> To assist you in getting the best answers for FrontPage support see:
> http://www.net-sites.com/sitebuilder/newsgroups.asp
>
> "Craig Schiller" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > E.T. -
> >
> > Have to disagree with you. On my DSL line, Images 1 opened instantly.
> Maybe
> > there was just some net clog when you tried. Also, I downloaded one of
the
> > images. At 227K, it certainly could be optimized more, but it's not
> exactly
> > "HUGE".
> >
> > I do definitely agree with you about the font size, though. It's very
> tiny.
> >
> > Regards,
> > Craig
> >
> > "E. T. Culling" wrote:
> >
> > > When I first saw this message I had to immediately assume that the
pages
> > > would be very slow to load.. and it is so ... As I write this I am
still
> > > waiting for this page to load:
> > > http://www.naturalworldandfarawaypla...s1/images1.htm
> > > I think you also need to reorganize your thinking about folders:
images
> and
> > > images 1.
> > > I've now had to give up on that images 1 page ... it refuses to load.
> > > It is best to not involve Publisher in any way when building web pages
> ...
> > > you have produced image sizes that are HUGE!
> > > Also, are you sure you want the sections of the frame sets to be that
> > > obvious?
> > > Finally I have a page to look at and I see very, very small text that
> many
> > > will not be able to read. I suggest that you forget about using
> Publisher,
> > > separate the images from the text and organize these items within
tables
> and
> > > cells on your page. As the material is presented now it really isn't
> > > accessible!
> > > Sorry to rain on your idea... get back to me for more help if you
wish!
> > > You might want to read some of these tutorials:
> > > http://www.eleanorstravels.com/suggestedresources.htm
> > > Eleanor
> > >
> > > "E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > > news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> > > > Website check please, especially images1 page.
> > > >
> > > > www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com
> > > >
> > > > Comments, critiques, suggestions, etc.
> > > >
> > > > Trying something a little different.
> > > >
> > > > Combined images and text in publisher, then resaved it
> > > > as a .jpg so I could work with it (primarily for resizing) in PS.
> > > >
> > > > Designed for a horizontal res of 800 (actually 770 to 800).
> > > > Want to keep the horizontal scrolling to a minimum
> > > > (set it and forget it), or none.
> > > >
> > > > Have updates scheduled weekly (one page at a time) thru Dec 21.
> > > >
> > > > Setting up the image pages that way, may be a little more work
> > > > up front, but I'm thinking that maintenance might be
easier.......Izzy
> >
>
>

Thanks all for the fast replies.

Image size and download time is definitely a problem.
Knew that going in but hoped it wouldn't be quite as bad
as it is. We're also on a dial-up and 126+ seconds (images1)
as opposed to 60 something for images 4
(the other 2 were 45 and change) isn't acceptable to us either.

Text size is also a problem but I think we got that cleared up with the
Dec 21 update. That's as far as we went with the pending's. Basically
two full cycles (images1, images2, images3, images4) x 2 at a
rate of one page a week.

Someone mentioned using nested tables to lay out the pages.

We do use tables (though not nested ones). The problem though
(as you can see in the images 2, 3, & 4 pages as well as the index),
is that as long as your using IE to view the site you don't see the borders.
View the site with Netscape though, and there they are. That's the other
reason for looking at the "collage" method as an alternative to the separate
"images and text" method. Granted! It doesn't clear the problem for the
index page, or the link bars at the top and bottom of the image pages, but
it does clear the problem for the body of the image pages, where the images
are.

In fact! Were it not for that problem. We might not've considered the
collage format at all.

As for search engines not having something to index on. How big a problem
is that really. The image page is basically a template, and it's the same
for all four pages. You've got the link bars at the top and bottom, and
they're
always there.

What changes are the dates of publication, and the content
(images and text) between the bars.

There was also something about 750 pixels being the maximum width
for a screen res of 800x600. I just rechecked the update for Dec21st
(pending) which is currently the last one using the collage format.
Looked at it in three different editors. They all showed 770 as the width.

Previewed it in both IE and Netscape. Neither required horizontal
scrolling.

As for 40 or 50k being the proper target for page size. That may be the
ideal in theory, but how realistic is it ?

Let's assume that we go back to our normal format after that Dec 21st
update. As long as we keep the number of images on a page down to
no more than 4 or 5, we can make that bogie. If we go to 6, 7, or 8, which
we sometimes do. We're over. Sure! We can lower the quality on the
displayed images. But!! That quality is fairly low to begin with, and we
really don't want to go any lower.

Basically, we think the idea of what we're trying to accomplish here is
a good one. The problem is with the execution. As we see it there're
four issues.

1. Size in kb (of the collage)

2. Download time

3. Browser Compatibility

4. Text size

We think we've got "text size" taken care of with that Dec21st update.
Question is. How do we resolve the other three......Izzy




> "E. Schultz" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> > www.naturalworldandfarawayplaces.com