I have a laptop and can put a drive in an extra bay. I would like to
have a backup of my primary drive in case it goes bad. I have been
told that an image is better than a clone - so I'm confused. I
thought a clone was an exact duplicate of another drive - so, if I
cloned my primary drive and it went bad, I could just swap it for the
clone and I would be back in business. What is the difference between
that and an image and which is better for what I want to do?

An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system on
the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive can
also be used for other purposes.

A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The second
hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can not
(should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone, you shut
down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer bus and
power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive goes bad.

At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the cloned
drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered exactly the
same as the original drive was jumpered.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"Fruit2O" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>I have a laptop and can put a drive in an extra bay. I would like to
> have a backup of my primary drive in case it goes bad. I have been
> told that an image is better than a clone - so I'm confused. I
> thought a clone was an exact duplicate of another drive - so, if I
> cloned my primary drive and it went bad, I could just swap it for the
> clone and I would be back in business. What is the difference between
> that and an image and which is better for what I want to do?

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
>target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system on
>the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive can
>also be used for other purposes.
>
>A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The second
>hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can not
>(should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone, you shut
>down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer bus and
>power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive goes bad.
>
>At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the cloned
>drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered exactly the
>same as the original drive was jumpered.

Thanks...that means I'm doing the right thing (my objective). Well, I
used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my drive. One day, I decided to test
the clone and I couldn't get past the POST. I got a message that
asked for a password. When I made the ghost, I used all defaults and
didn't even see a place that asked if I wanted a password. Then, I
put the clone in my extra drive bay (laptop) and I got a message that
sais it didn't recognize the drive and, perhaps, it wasn't seated
properly. So, I returned this brand new drive and got a replacement.
The same thing happened with that drive. Was there something else I
was supposed to do to get my notebook to recognize the clone before I
tried to use it? Also, Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
up to date and not have this problem again. Can you help?

I use TrueImage Workstation 9.1. There is a version of TrueImage Home 10.0
(less expensive). It does everything that Ghost does.

It sounds like you didn't jumper the cloned drive correctly. You have to
physically make the cloned drive exactly as the original was, after removing
the original. This would include, I suspect, mounting the drive in the same
compartment in the laptop (I don't use laptops so I am not certain on this).
I am sure others may chime in here to clarify this point.

--

Regards,

Richard Urban
Microsoft MVP Windows Shell/User
(For email, remove the obvious from my address)

Quote from George Ankner:
If you knew as much as you think you know,
You would realize that you don't know what you thought you knew!

"Fruit2O" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
>>target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system
>>on
>>the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive can
>>also be used for other purposes.
>>
>>A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The
>>second
>>hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can not
>>(should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone, you
>>shut
>>down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer bus and
>>power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive goes bad.
>>
>>At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the
>>cloned
>>drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered exactly the
>>same as the original drive was jumpered.
>
> Thanks...that means I'm doing the right thing (my objective). Well, I
> used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my drive. One day, I decided to test
> the clone and I couldn't get past the POST. I got a message that
> asked for a password. When I made the ghost, I used all defaults and
> didn't even see a place that asked if I wanted a password. Then, I
> put the clone in my extra drive bay (laptop) and I got a message that
> sais it didn't recognize the drive and, perhaps, it wasn't seated
> properly. So, I returned this brand new drive and got a replacement.
> The same thing happened with that drive. Was there something else I
> was supposed to do to get my notebook to recognize the clone before I
> tried to use it? Also, Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
> to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
> up to date and not have this problem again. Can you help?

"Fruit2O" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
>>target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system
>>on
>>the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive can
>>also be used for other purposes.
>>
>>A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The
>>second
>>hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can not
>>(should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone, you
>>shut
>>down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer bus and
>>power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive goes bad.
>>
>>At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the
>>cloned
>>drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered exactly the
>>same as the original drive was jumpered.
>
> Thanks...that means I'm doing the right thing (my objective). Well, I
> used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my drive. One day, I decided to test
> the clone and I couldn't get past the POST. I got a message that
> asked for a password. When I made the ghost, I used all defaults and
> didn't even see a place that asked if I wanted a password. Then, I
> put the clone in my extra drive bay (laptop) and I got a message that
> sais it didn't recognize the drive and, perhaps, it wasn't seated
> properly. So, I returned this brand new drive and got a replacement.
> The same thing happened with that drive. Was there something else I
> was supposed to do to get my notebook to recognize the clone before I
> tried to use it? Also, Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
> to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
> up to date and not have this problem again. Can you help?

Supported or not Ghost 2003 will make a clone or image of XP, it also does
Vista 32 and 64 bit. Are you sure that those drives don't have jumpers on
the connectors for slave or master. Laptop drives are usually jumpered to
slave or master on the 4 pins that are next to the string of 44.

> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
>>target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system
>>on the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive
>>can also be used for other purposes.
>>
>>A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The
>>second hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can
>>not (should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone,
>>you shut down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer
>>bus and power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive
>>goes bad.
>>
>>At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the
>>cloned drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered
>>exactly the same as the original drive was jumpered.


"Fruit2O" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> Thanks...that means I'm doing the right thing (my objective). Well, I
> used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my drive. One day, I decided to test
> the clone and I couldn't get past the POST. I got a message that
> asked for a password. When I made the ghost, I used all defaults and
> didn't even see a place that asked if I wanted a password. Then, I
> put the clone in my extra drive bay (laptop) and I got a message that
> sais it didn't recognize the drive and, perhaps, it wasn't seated
> properly. So, I returned this brand new drive and got a replacement.
> The same thing happened with that drive. Was there something else I
> was supposed to do to get my notebook to recognize the clone before I
> tried to use it? Also, Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
> to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
> up to date and not have this problem again. Can you help?

Fruit2O:
Well as long as you have Ghost 2003, give it another shot. It generally
works fine in an XP environment for creating disk-to-disk clones.

We'll assume that your source HDD (the disk you will clone) is non-defective
in all respects, i.e., it boots without incident and functions without any
problems. That's right, isn't it? Because if it isn't, read no further.
Capiche?

We'll further assume that your destination drive - the HDD you're cloning to
is similarly non-defective and that you've correctly connected & configured
that disk in your machine.

When we use the Ghost 2003 program, we prefer to work with the Ghost
bootable floppy disk to undertake the disk cloning process. For a variety of
reasons we find that media easier to work with and most reliable. So the
following instructions are based on using a Ghost 2003 bootable floppy disk
to undertake the disk cloning process.

Make sure that you're working with the latest (& final) build of the Ghost
2003 program - version 2003.793. If not, use Symantec's LiveUpdate feature
in the program to download/install that latest build.

Please note (see final paragraph) my admonition about not booting with both
the source and destination HDDs connected IMMEDIATELY following the disk
cloning operation. Doing so might have been the cause of your problem.

Here are step-by-step instructions for using the program...

Creating the bootable Ghost floppy disk (in case you haven't already done
so):
1. Install the Ghost 2003 program on your computer. As indicated above,
make sure you're using the latest "build" - Ghost 2003.793. If not, use
Ghost's LiveUpdate feature to automatically download the latest version from
Symantec's site. It's important that you be using this latest "build".
2. Insert a blank floppy disk (it need not be formatted) and access your
Ghost program.
3. Click on Ghost Utilities.
4. Click on Norton Ghost Boot Wizard.
5. Select Standard Ghost Boot Disk. A dialog box will appear.
a. Select the USB 2.0 Support option (assuming you have that
capability).
b. Select the Assign DOS drive letters option and click Next.
6. Select the Use PC-DOS option.
7. Complete the process following the screen prompts.
8. Remove floppy and label accordingly.

That's it. Now you have a Ghost bootable floppy disk which you can use to
undertake your cloning operations now and in the future. Now when you want
to clone the contents of one HD to another HD you simply insert the Ghost
bootable floppy disk in your floppy drive and boot up with both drives
connected.

NOTE: After creating the Ghost bootable floppy disk, you can create a Ghost
bootable CD from it using the Roxio or Nero CD burning programs, or most
other CD burning programs that allow you to create a bootable CD.
Unfortunately I know of no way to *directly* create this bootable CD from
the Ghost program (as you can do, for example, with the Acronis True Image
program).

Before undertaking the cloning operation ensure that the only storage
devices connected are the two HDDs that will be involved in the cloning
process, i.e., your source and destination disks. Disconnect any flash
drives, ZIP drives, etc.

Here's how to perform the cloning operation...
1. With both drives connected, boot up with the Ghost bootable floppy (or
Ghost bootable CD). You'll get an initial screen that displays "License
agreement warning". Right-arrow (or tab) over to the "Continue without
marking drives" button and press Enter.
2. The "About Norton Ghost" screen appears. Click OK.
3. Right-arrow twice over to the "To Disk" button and press Enter.
4. The next screen will list both your drives - the Drive 1 (source disk)
and Drive 2 (destination disk). MAKE ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN Drive 1 IS INDEED
YOUR SOURCE DISK, I.E., THE DISK YOU'RE CLONING *FROM*!
Drive 1 will be highlighted. Press Enter.
5. The next screen will have Drive 2 (destination disk) highlighted. AGAIN,
ENSURE THAT Drive 2 IS YOUR DESTINATION DISK, I.E., THE DISK YOU'RE CLONING
*TO*! Press Enter.
6. The next screen is the "Destination Drive Details" window, and reflects
your ultimate destination disk, i.e., your current Drive 2. Press your Tab
key to highlight the OK button and press Enter.
7. The "Proceed with disk clone?" dialog box will open. Left-arrow over to
the Yes button and press Enter.
8. The cloning process will begin. The data transfer speed will vary
depending upon the speed of your processor and the HDs involved. On a medium
to high-powered system you should get transfer speeds ranging from 800
MB/min nearly 2.0 GB/min should you be cloning internal drives. It will be
considerably slower if you're cloning to a USB external HD.
9. After you get the "Clone Completed Successfully" message, left-arrow over
to the Continue button and press Enter.
10. Down-arrow to Quit and press Enter.
11. Click Yes at the "Are you sure you want to quit?" message.
12. Remove the Ghost floppy and shut down the computer.
13. Disconnect your source disk and boot up with the cloned drive. In most
cases (but not always), a Windows "Found New Hardware" message will appear
in the Desktop's Notification Area shortly followed by a "System Settings
Change"
message window informing you that new hardware has been found and asks "Do
you want to restart your computer now?" Click Yes for the reboot.
14. BTW, the reboot of the newly-cloned drive usually takes a longer time
than usual, so one must be patient. On rare occasions the system will fail
to reboot - the system will hang before reaching the Windows XP Welcome
screen. It's a rare occurrence, but you may experience it from time-to-time.
If that does occur, simply use the Ctrl-Alt-Delete keys to reboot.

Assuming you've cloned the contents of your working drive to your second
internal drive, that second drive will be bootable (after disconnecting your
primary one, of course) as indicated above. You also have the option of
cloning your working drive to a USB external hard drive. In that case the
USBEHD is *not* bootable (at least we haven't been able to boot the XP OS
from a USBEHD), but you could clone the contents back to your internal drive
for restoration purposes should the need arise.

Just one other point I wish to emphasize with respect to the cloning
operation involving internal drives. Immediately following the cloning
operation and the shutdown of your machine, disconnect your source drive and
boot ONLY to the newly-cloned drive (as indicated in step 13. above). DO NOT
BOOT IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING THE CLONING OPERATION WITH BOTH DRIVES CONNECTED.
Doing so is likely to cause future boot problems with the cloned drive.
Obviously there is no problem in this area should a USBEHD be involved in
the cloning process since that device is not bootable in an XP environment.

I trust the above will be of use to you and others who might be thinking
about using the Ghost 2003 program for a routine backup system.
Anna

Replied to [Fruit2O]'s message :
-----------------------------------------------------------
> Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
> to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
> up to date and not have this problem again.


http://data-backup-software-review.toptenreviews.com/

--
Ayush [ Be ''?'' Happy ]

Search - www.Google.com | Wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org
Snip your long urls - http://snipurl.com/
OE-QuoteFix - http://snipurl.com/quotefix

What Richard and others have said is that cloned image must be recognized as
the primary drive, the master drive, in order to boot Windows. With ATA or
ATA133 drives and cables, you can just switch the cable connectors. I am not
familiar with laptops so I do not know how to install drives and such;
however, if you can just shove a drive in a slot to make the connection then
remove both drives (after you have removed the computer power cable0 and
switch them to the opposite slot. The old master becomes the slave and your
new clone becomes the master or primary drive.

--
Gene K

"BR549" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:iop4h.6823$(E-Mail Removed)...
"Fruit2O" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 11:53:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>An image is a exact copy of a drive that is stored as a file, on another
>>target (hard drive, DVD etc.). It is used to restore the operating system
>>on
>>the original hard drive, or a replacement hard drive. The target drive can
>>also be used for other purposes.
>>
>>A clone is an exact "copy" of a hard drive to another hard drive. The
>>second
>>hard drive is bootable after the clone has been made. The clone can not
>>(should not) be used for any other purpose. After making the clone, you
>>shut
>>down the computer and physically disconnect it from the computer bus and
>>power. It is kept for an emergency, in case your original drive goes bad.
>>
>>At that point you would remove the original drive and substitute the
>>cloned
>>drive, after making certain that the cloned drive is jumpered exactly the
>>same as the original drive was jumpered.
>
> Thanks...that means I'm doing the right thing (my objective). Well, I
> used Norton Ghost 2003 to clone my drive. One day, I decided to test
> the clone and I couldn't get past the POST. I got a message that
> asked for a password. When I made the ghost, I used all defaults and
> didn't even see a place that asked if I wanted a password. Then, I
> put the clone in my extra drive bay (laptop) and I got a message that
> sais it didn't recognize the drive and, perhaps, it wasn't seated
> properly. So, I returned this brand new drive and got a replacement.
> The same thing happened with that drive. Was there something else I
> was supposed to do to get my notebook to recognize the clone before I
> tried to use it? Also, Ghost 2003 is no longer supported and I'd like
> to buy the best cloning and imaging software available so I can keep
> up to date and not have this problem again. Can you help?

Supported or not Ghost 2003 will make a clone or image of XP, it also does
Vista 32 and 64 bit. Are you sure that those drives don't have jumpers on
the connectors for slave or master. Laptop drives are usually jumpered to
slave or master on the 4 pins that are next to the string of 44.

On Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:10:33 -0500, "Richard Urban"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>I use TrueImage Workstation 9.1. There is a version of TrueImage Home 10.0
>(less expensive). It does everything that Ghost does.
>
>It sounds like you didn't jumper the cloned drive correctly. You have to
>physically make the cloned drive exactly as the original was, after removing
>the original. This would include, I suspect, mounting the drive in the same
>compartment in the laptop (I don't use laptops so I am not certain on this).
>I am sure others may chime in here to clarify this point.

I wasn't aware that there were jumpers on a laptop drive. What do I
look for? If I can't find a jumper, where do I go from there?
Thanks...

>
>Supported or not Ghost 2003 will make a clone or image of XP, it also does
>Vista 32 and 64 bit. Are you sure that those drives don't have jumpers on
>the connectors for slave or master. Laptop drives are usually jumpered to
>slave or master on the 4 pins that are next to the string of 44.
>
There are no jumpers on those four pins.